How long would you

[Kane 2]

well a weekend talking to some good dog lads has made me rethink what i have been doing for the last 10-15 years ..............somewhere between what pickaxe said and what socks said is where i will be from now on

and darcy i tend to agree .........easy to enter easy to spoil

yis fellman

 

Talk is cheap lol,I like the easy to enter eager to start type of terrier.In my experiance a lot harder to spoil than the late starting slow to mature type.

Its up to the owner to make sure a young dog isnt pushed to hard to soon.

[fellman 116]

well a weekend talking to some good dog lads has made me rethink what i have been doing for the last 10-15 years ..............somewhere between what pickaxe said and what socks said is where i will be from now on

and darcy i tend to agree .........easy to enter easy to spoil

yis fellman

 

OK so thats between 14 months old and 2 year. So what age where you starting your young stock before this for 10-15 years?

well i was starting them at the same time but once they went i wasnt holding them back as much as i am going to in the future i "think" maybe i was doing too much too soon .........ill give it a go anyway see what the outcome is.......never too late to learn maybe it wont work in the way i am thinking but ill give it a go

[Kane 2]

well a weekend talking to some good dog lads has made me rethink what i have been doing for the last 10-15 years ..............somewhere between what pickaxe said and what socks said is where i will be from now on

and darcy i tend to agree .........easy to enter easy to spoil

yis fellman

 

OK so thats between 14 months old and 2 year. So what age where you starting your young stock before this for 10-15 years?

well i was starting them at the same time but once they went i wasnt holding them back as much as i am going to in the future i "think" maybe i was doing too much too soon .........ill give it a go anyway see what the outcome is.......never too late to learn maybe it wont work in the way i am thinking but ill give it a go

 

Its not the hoding back that needs to change then but your whole method of entering?

I thought it was common practice that slowly but surely at least in its 1st season was the way to get a terrier started.

 

well a weekend talking to some good dog lads has made me rethink what i have been doing for the last 10-15 years ..............somewhere between what pickaxe said and what socks said is where i will be from now on

and darcy i tend to agree .........easy to enter easy to spoil

yis fellman

 

Are you agreeing after 1 weekend at a dog show,or after 10-15 years of early entering.

[Fledge 0]

I dont keep small terriers but common sence would tell me eatch dog is different and the most part of the first 18months/2years would be spent giving him possitive experiences and build confiddence showing him "some" work as to mould him as a dog and only really let him test [bANNED TEXT] his mined and body are ready for for it . Be patient at the start and the dog will be a mutch better dog a few years down the line

[fellman 116]

well a weekend talking to some good dog lads has made me rethink what i have been doing for the last 10-15 years ..............somewhere between what pickaxe said and what socks said is where i will be from now on

and darcy i tend to agree .........easy to enter easy to spoil

yis fellman

 

OK so thats between 14 months old and 2 year. So what age where you starting your young stock before this for 10-15 years?

well i was starting them at the same time but once they went i wasnt holding them back as much as i am going to in the future i "think" maybe i was doing too much too soon .........ill give it a go anyway see what the outcome is.......never too late to learn maybe it wont work in the way i am thinking but ill give it a go

 

Its not the hoding back that needs to change then but your whole method of entering?

I thought it was common practice that slowly but surely at least in its 1st season was the way to get a terrier started.

well i am not changing my whole method of entering merely altering it a little........

well a weekend talking to some good dog lads has made me rethink what i have been doing for the last 10-15 years ..............somewhere between what pickaxe said and what socks said is where i will be from now on

and darcy i tend to agree .........easy to enter easy to spoil

yis fellman

 

Are you agreeing after 1 weekend at a dog show,or after 10-15 years of early entering.

i am just taking on boaord what was discussed and i can see the logic behind it .......

nothing wrong with learning is there?

if you have some thoughts id be more than willing to listen

never too late to learn somthign new

[Kane 2]

it is only what it say's on the tin, TALK but i do have to agree with socks and a few others, also supervision work also means an older terrier works the earth and when dug to, show the young terrier the quarry behind a fork/shovel and let him bay at it for a while, lets the younger inexperiance dog know what he's face'ing,goes along way

 

Personaly I would only use the above method as a last resort,I pick easy earths and would rather the terrier found the quarry himself(bump into it in the simplest of places) and learnt for himself things arent going to be all easy,but (and this is quite a big but) help will only be a couple of spades full of earth away.

I would be more happier for the young dog to meet a few september foxes rather than 1 january fox.

Also by holding back I dont mean sat in the kennel the young terrier would have been tied back on digs aloud to rag a couple of dead foxes and also done a bit of bushing and working through empty earths pipes etc.

[J Darcy 5,871]

Big statement that,without knowing and working every strain type or bloodline, not many would be arrogant enough to make it.JMO

 

 

 

Kane. Tell me how it is possible to spoil a working dog by holding it back. You talk like some kind of legend mate and put down everything what everyone says. Opinions are opinions. Nothing to do with arrogance>....SO, answer the question....Please tell me how it is possible to ruin a pup by holding it back....i await your knowledgeable answer.....

:11: :11:

A terriers mental maturity is the key IMHO...

[socks 32,253]

i have come to my decision after a long time keeping terriers and seeing what has happened to very well bred promising youngsters that were entered very carefully and slowly ... but the outcome has nea5rly always been the same with these young dogs .... after wittnessing the effects of numerouse dogs not being entered untill they are at least 2 years of age i have come to my decision .... each to their own but i will stick to this method from now on ..........

[Guest Cal]

All dogs are different be they terriers, lurchers, gundogs or whatever but there is a right time and a right way to enter and a good owner/trainer should know his own dog. Someone said a few posts back if you left it too late you could be left wondering if you've missed a season of work, fair enough but it could also mean you gain two or three seasons at the other end of the dogs career. That said however I do think you can miss the boat if you leave it too late.

I would hazard a guess however that there are more dogs ruined by too early entering than by being held back.

[socks 32,253]

you will never miss the boat by leaving it to late ... the best dog in our kennel never seen an earth untill he was 5 years of age ........

[Guest Dillon]

I must say Kane, I agree with you on a lot of things, but you do like to stir the pot, no need for the arrogance that comes from your direction all the time,I'm not saying you have to be friends with everyone and constructive criticism is what is needed but I feel you were the fat kid at school who was constantly being bullied and it has scarred you for life,

 

I think Fellman was basically saying that he had been discussing at weekend with a few lads the topic of this thread, a topic of which he wanted to build on and try a different method of entering his dogs.

Nothing wrong with that in the slightest.

 

 

Kane

 

I pick easy earths and would rather the terrier found the quarry himself(bump into it in the simplest of places) and learnt for himself things arent going to be all easy,but (and this is quite a big but) help will only be a couple of spades full of earth away.

I would be more happier for the young dog to meet a few september foxes rather than 1 january fox.

Also by holding back I dont mean sat in the kennel the young terrier would have been tied back on digs aloud to rag a couple of dead foxes and also done a bit of bushing and working through empty earths pipes etc.

 

 

This is also the way i enter my dogs, but would say that it does no damage at all by entering later when the dog is more mature, especially if the dog has seen digs and seen what is going on, its almost common sense in the terrier world not to start a dog too young so we should all be well aware of this.

 

I got shut of a dog recently who was around the 16 month mark, people said he was too young to pass off as a non starter and I should run him on, I knew in my heart that he still wouldn't make and got shut accordingly. I don't think he was rushed he just didn't want the game, (too much show blood i reckon ) If I had kept him working the puppy earths and easy drains and waited for the real work,I know for a fact he would have spewed.

 

I spoilt a russell a good number of years back by early entering, he didn't spew, he just bayed at earthworms and bay like "billy o" he did, he was bred of good stuff (as far as russels go :whistle: ) but wasn't any good for me.

 

Each to their own is the usual saying, I have a very good friend in another country who won't keep a dog if it aint going strong by 12 months, this I don't agree with and he knows this but its up to him and he has some extremely good dogs.

 

Fellman, for one thing, that little ball of dynamite you have their will certainly need holding back, The mother to it wanted it at an early age and bolted her first at 11 months, the sire and his breeding - well that speaks for itself

 

Good luck

 

Dillon

[Kane 2]

Big statement that,without knowing and working every strain type or bloodline, not many would be arrogant enough to make it.JMO

 

 

 

Kane. Tell me how it is possible to spoil a working dog by holding it back. You talk like some kind of legend mate and put down everything what everyone says. Opinions are opinions. Nothing to do with arrogance>....SO, answer the question....Please tell me how it is possible to ruin a pup by holding it back....i await your knowledgeable answer.....

:11: :11:

A terriers mental maturity is the key IMHO...

 

I had a Border terrier bitch I was given her at just over 3 years old she had done or seen nothing,she entered easily and naturaly but she showed no signs of discretion or quarry sense of any time if this bitch had been entered earlier ,I believe she would of learnt a few valuable lessons and had a longer career JMO of course.

 

No dog, of whatever breed, has ever been spoilt by holding it back....in the grand scale of things, there really is no rush

 

In your original post you didnt state pup.

[Guest Dillon]

,I'm not saying you have to be friends with everyone and constructive criticism is what is needed but I feel you were tampered with as a child or something and it has scarred you for life,

 

 

 

You can call me what you like,but personaly I find the references to sex with children to frequent on this site and although I am thick skinned I find them distastefull.

 

 

Point taken I'll edit accordingly however for some strange uncanny reason I knew your answer would be along those lines

 

I'll re-phrase to say you must have been the fat kid that got bullied a lot,

[Kane 2]

Right then generaly I agree with what everyone has to say but its when you get down to the specifics thats when the dissagreement comes.

Never been a dog spoiled by being held back,you will never miss the boat.

Dogs are so varied even within the same bloodlines never mind breeds,so how can anyone be so definitive?

 

 

 

. You talk like some kind of legend mate and put down everything what everyone says. Opinions are

 

:11: :11:

A terriers mental maturity is the key IMHO...

 

Legend I like that lol ....

[Guest mucker]

good thread lads