Puppys and crate space.....help

[cab09 0]

I have read a few artciles on the use of crates for puppys. Nearly every article tells you to limit the size of the crate/ compartmentise it so that the pup is comfortable i.e. can lay, stand up and turn around etc. which is to stop the pup emptying itself in the crate. What happens during the night when the pup is in there for longer periods? The pup wont be able to 'hold it' for say a minimum of 6 hrs during the night and will no doubt dirty their bed area and get distressed.

 

I have put my pup in a large crate at the moment where he is quite settled, day and night. I have one half covered in newspaper and the other with a towel for bedding. I take him outside to do his business last thing at night and wake up early to take him out again in the morning, so not to avoid anything been done in the crate (not much sleep for me at the moment though). Sometimes I have come down on the morning and found he has went on the newspaper or even his towel bedding and inevitably trodded it all over. Am I doing something wrong, I just seem to think if he has only the room on the towel bedding during the night he will inevitably go on it and become distressed (not to mention covered in it).

 

Any advice or help much appreciated....

[JPTfellterrier 65]

i had my terrier in a a small crate big enough for her to turn around etc because she was distructive when we went out or were asleep, she was fine during the night and could last a fair time during the day

[JPTfellterrier 65]

and about the having a smaller crate i went for the smaller crate as my pup sharp leanred that if she did it in there she would have to lie next to it, helped with house training aswel

[skycat 6,173]

What are you feeding him on? Pups fed on raw meat/bones etc don't crap as much or as soft as dogs fed on complete, especially the cereal based foods. When they eat raw food they use much more of what they eat so less comes out the other end and is much firmer as well.

 

Also, adjust your feeding times. Definitely DO NOT free feed (food down all the time) as that means not only does the dog not learn to properly fill its belly at one meal, but it also means that there is waste in transit all the time and they crap more often.

 

How old is the pup? How many meals a day? And what time is his last feed? And does he crap last thing at night before he goes to bed?

[cab09 0]

What are you feeding him on? Pups fed on raw meat/bones etc don't crap as much or as soft as dogs fed on complete, especially the cereal based foods. When they eat raw food they use much more of what they eat so less comes out the other end and is much firmer as well.

 

Also, adjust your feeding times. Definitely DO NOT free feed (food down all the time) as that means not only does the dog not learn to properly fill its belly at one meal, but it also means that there is waste in transit all the time and they crap more often.

 

How old is the pup? How many meals a day? And what time is his last feed? And does he crap last thing at night before he goes to bed?

 

He's a 10 week old lab (today). Been feeding him on Beta Puppy (lamb+rice) as recommended by breeder. He has 4 meals a day at set times, last one at 8.00pm. His food is left down about half an hour before its removed. I take him out last thing and he usually does his business then, plus same routine first thing on a morning. He's trained on the newspaper in house and now trying to train him on newspaper outside. Generally not too bad. just now and again he does it in crate during night and was wondering whether or not i was doing something wrong by not comparmenting it off.

[joe_lynas 2]

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Edited February 28, 2012 by joe_lynas

[cab09 0]

I have an 11 wk old lurcher that I keep in a large crate and I use a divider to only allow her a small space to live in. It works well as she never goes to the toilet in the crate, and when I let her out the crate (usually every 2 hours in the day) I take her outside to toilet first so she seems to quickly be getting the idea that she needs to be outside to go to the toilet.

 

As you say the problem comes in the night when you're not there to take them out so regularly. Initially my pup would howl and cry when she needed to go to the toilet in the night, and I'd get out of bed and take her out. She soon started taking the p**s though, by howling every hour just because she wanted the attention and she knew I'd come running. I figured she could probably control her bladder for 3-4 hours at a push, so I now take her out at about midnight before I go to bed, then I set an alarm to wake me up at 4am to take her out, then I'll take her out when I get up about 7.30am, and I just ignore her howls in between those times. It seems to be working well so far, and she's started howling less at night as she's learning it won't bring me running!

 

atb, JL

 

i know what you mean...I take him out at 11.00-11.30pm and set the alarm for 5.00am.... back to bed and then up at 6.15.......I'm like a walking zomby at the moment!

Thanks for the help and advice, it seems to be working for people. Thing is now, do i keep as is i.e. bedding and newspaper and take him out at the times above or change it to a compartment and still take out at the times above?? I think he is doing well at the moment...last night only a small pee on the newspaper and he went outside fisrt thing this morning for the other??

[joe_lynas 2]

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Edited February 28, 2012 by joe_lynas

[skycat 6,173]

I know a lot of people swear by Beta puppy, but IMO it is the biggest load of crap going! A pup will crap as much as went in the other end! That should tell you something about the amount of undigestible waste that this product contains: cereal based: DOGS NEED MEAT: on a raw diet pups can go all night without crapping as the amount of waste they produce is half what a pup on a complete food ejects from its arse!

 

Also, you will be feeding far less food all round as the pup will be utilising much more of what it eats rather than shovelling the complete rubbish straight through its system at a rate of knots!

 

I'd also cut down the number of meals to 3 at this age: feed the last feed no later than 8pm and make sure the pup craps before you go to bed: BUT if you insist on feeding rubbish food then expect a mucky pup in the morning!

 

If feeding raw fills you with dread: just go and buy a chicken from the supermarket: cut it into quarters, bones and all: remove the biggest leg bones and give the pup one quarter of the chicken per meal just for a day: then see what comes out the other end!

 

I'm not suggesting that a chicken a day is what you should feed your pup, but is a good start and easy to come by.

 

Note: when feeding raw be careful to feed a mixture of meat and bone: feeding only muscle meat, for example (beef mince) will lead to problems as it doesn't contain enough minerals (calcium etc) Think whole carcase when you feed raw. What's more your dog will thank you for it in the long run, say 7 or 8 years down the line when a life time of feeding rubbish complete food will have taken its toll on the dog's health.

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

I'm with Skycat on the raw feeding thing ... my pup is 15 weeks tomorrow. He has never shat in the house - it's pretty easy for me to know when he's going to need to go and get him out on time. When he first came he had huge poo's. Now they're small, formed and tidy (sorry for the indepth description ).

 

I crate him as well. Like you Cab I was of two minds about bedding/toileting space. At first I had two areas in the crate but soon gave up on that. The pup has only wet his crate once. I was out at the time and he had to lie in it. Never did it again. It's not nice to put up with at first but in my opinion, the best way they learn to go outside for toileting is to have to sit in it if they're doing it in the crate. Also, papertraining in the house is counterproductive. You're basically saying 'here, wee on that paper' ... then 'now wee outside' ... it's too much information. Do away with the paper. Take the pup out at regular intervals, after play and sleep and eating. Don't let him get the idea that it's ok to mess inside and then have to reprimand him for it because now he's supposed to go out. If you can't supervise him 'cause you're busy, put him in the crate. Again, if he messes himself in there he'll soon learn not to do it again.

 

You have a routine which is great, you stick by that. The pup will get to know that routine an adjust themselves accordingly. At 10 weeks you should move down to three meals a day. Mine gets his last at 8pm (just having it now, actually ...). He doesn't always shit before bed but as he's on raw, he has no problem holding it till morning. I'm very lucky with him. I can let him out for last toileting trip between 10 and 11pm, and not get up with him till about 6.30 and 7am.

 

Good luck with it! Keep at the crate training, it's positively invaluable for a dog who lives in the house.

[cab09 0]

I'm with Skycat on the raw feeding thing ... my pup is 15 weeks tomorrow. He has never shat in the house - it's pretty easy for me to know when he's going to need to go and get him out on time. When he first came he had huge poo's. Now they're small, formed and tidy (sorry for the indepth description ).

 

I crate him as well. Like you Cab I was of two minds about bedding/toileting space. At first I had two areas in the crate but soon gave up on that. The pup has only wet his crate once. I was out at the time and he had to lie in it. Never did it again. It's not nice to put up with at first but in my opinion, the best way they learn to go outside for toileting is to have to sit in it if they're doing it in the crate. Also, papertraining in the house is counterproductive. You're basically saying 'here, wee on that paper' ... then 'now wee outside' ... it's too much information. Do away with the paper. Take the pup out at regular intervals, after play and sleep and eating. Don't let him get the idea that it's ok to mess inside and then have to reprimand him for it because now he's supposed to go out. If you can't supervise him 'cause you're busy, put him in the crate. Again, if he messes himself in there he'll soon learn not to do it again.

 

You have a routine which is great, you stick by that. The pup will get to know that routine an adjust themselves accordingly. At 10 weeks you should move down to three meals a day. Mine gets his last at 8pm (just having it now, actually ...). He doesn't always shit before bed but as he's on raw, he has no problem holding it till morning. I'm very lucky with him. I can let him out for last toileting trip between 10 and 11pm, and not get up with him till about 6.30 and 7am.

 

Good luck with it! Keep at the crate training, it's positively invaluable for a dog who lives in the house.

 

Thanks for all the good advice. Im going to take the newspaper out of the crate and away from the backdoor and limit his crate to sleeping only..............fingers crossed. I'm not really sure what this raw feding thing is all about but will start reading up on it.

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

Another tip for you cab: when you need to put the pup in the crate and it's not sleeping time, give him something to do. Give him a meaty bone to chew, or one of those rubber Kong thingys and stuff it with something ... his biscuits, or some tuna and yoghurt (you can put just about anything in them that he likes to eat), that should occupy him for ages. Or try getting him a treat ball with an adjustable opening, again you can put what you like in there: biscuit or liver treats, whatever will fall out of the hole. Very entertaining to watch them roll it round to get the food out and it helps to keep them out of trouble

[cab09 0]

Just a quick update - took newspaper out of crate and compartmented the crate. Things going really well now, he goes out last thing at night and then first thing in the morning an no accidents in the crate or house! thanks everyone for all your help and advice, looks like we might have cracked it....

[joe_lynas 2]

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Edited September 28, 2019 by joe_lynas

[cab09 0]

Just a quick update - took newspaper out of crate and compartmented the crate. Things going really well now, he goes out last thing at night and then first thing in the morning an no accidents in the crate or house! thanks everyone for all your help and advice, looks like we might have cracked it....

 

That good news cab09, it's a relief once you can trust them to be clean in the crate no? I'd suggest you increase the crate compartment gradually as the pup grows, as last week I increased the space my pup has and probably gave her a bit too much room in her XL crate and the first thing she did was take a crap in the far corner of the crate . I dropped the size of the compartment down a bit and she's been clean in the crate since.

 

atb, JL

 

thanks for the tip / early warning JL - I'll bear it in mind for the future..............whats the saying, give them an inch and...