the glen of imaal terrier

[tinytiger 840]

like many dogs in the terrier group-not really appreciated by gentlemen sportsmen before the middle of the

19th century-the glen of imaal is an old breed which was simply ignored for a long time,rather than the

result of later breed experiments

he is very much a local dog,confined to the particulary scenic,but bleak area of the glen of imaal

the farmers from this part of west wicklow who were descended from lowland and hessian soldiers given

land in the 16th and 17th centurys as payment for services rendered to the british crown,had to utilise their

natural cunning and dexterity to survive in this harsh terrain

every available resource was put to maximum use by these dour people who wrestled a living from the land

they had been given.there inborn stubbornness helped them force a living from the rocky ground,and a dog

who could not pull his wieght in the day to day struggle would not be tolerated

before the glen terrier became known at dog shows he had evolved through generations of hard work into

the strong sturdy dog we know today

this small tough breed like all other terriers had to hunt badgers and foxes keep the rat population to a

minimun and in the dubius sport of dog fighting was often pitted against in a custum that has now one hopes has disappeard in addition he had to spend long hours propelling dog wheels [a treadmill device used for

operating dog churns or fire spits] the glen of imaal terriers short crooked front legs and his powerful rear

end made him ideally suited to this task no wonder this turnspit dog as he was sometimes called, on noticing

any unusual stir or activity about the kitchen would,if not kept under close observation,abscond at the possible opportunity. the only way of dealing with this domestic catastrophe was to send for the neighbours

dog or do the work oneself

a 16th century work,[the noble art of venerie] by george tuberville, mentions two sorts of terriers one sort

had crooked legs and according to tuberville originated from flanders or another of the low countries,

those with the crooked legs says tuberville will take to earth better than the other and are better for badger,

because they will lye longer at a vermin.the glen of imaal is just such a crooked legged dog used for badger

hunting, but nowone knows exactly how long it has a distinct breed in ireland. the obvious conection between

this referance and the plantation of the area around the same period cannot be ruled out.

an early referance to the breed comes from the end of the 19th century,though fanciers who mentioned the

breed seamed unclear about its appereance and colour the blue and tan colours,however,were frequently

mentioned,along with the wheaton and black and tan coat.the irish kennel club gave official recognition

to the breed in 1933 and it was shown in 1934 a club to promote its intrests was soon formed.

the dog is not shown in large numbers,but it appears regularly at irish showswhere it still has the reputation

of being very much a working as well as show dog.

mr dan odonoghue and frank fallon from poulaphouca,west wicklow kept the breed intact during a lean periodjust after the war in the early 70s mr and mrs t cleary assembled the remaining enthusiasts and

renamed the old club the glen of imaal owners and breeders association

apart from those mentioned there are numerous enthusiasts in west wicklow and throughout ireland who are

not show oriented and whos names never appear in stud books or in the list of owners of champions

never the less thier contrbution to the breed should not be underestimated

the glen of imaal is a good family pet and is said to be less easily excited than some terriers,though he is

always ready to give chase when called upon

anna redlich says his bravery is well known,the dog will not utter a whimper she says when deep down

underground he is mauled or even killed by a badger.

 

i hope you enjoy the read as im am very passionate about this breed

 

 

all the best billy bunter

 

Interesting read,id say the theory about them coming from flanders via hessian mercenaries is pure shite though-they are too much like a wheaten ,appearance and workwise not to be from the same origin..

[p3d 879]

like many dogs in the terrier group-not really appreciated by gentlemen sportsmen before the middle of the

19th century-the glen of imaal is an old breed which was simply ignored for a long time,rather than the

result of later breed experiments

he is very much a local dog,confined to the particulary scenic,but bleak area of the glen of imaal

the farmers from this part of west wicklow who were descended from lowland and hessian soldiers given

land in the 16th and 17th centurys as payment for services rendered to the british crown,had to utilise their

natural cunning and dexterity to survive in this harsh terrain

every available resource was put to maximum use by these dour people who wrestled a living from the land

they had been given.there inborn stubbornness helped them force a living from the rocky ground,and a dog

who could not pull his wieght in the day to day struggle would not be tolerated

before the glen terrier became known at dog shows he had evolved through generations of hard work into

the strong sturdy dog we know today

this small tough breed like all other terriers had to hunt badgers and foxes keep the rat population to a

minimun and in the dubius sport of dog fighting was often pitted against in a custum that has now one hopes has disappeard in addition he had to spend long hours propelling dog wheels [a treadmill device used for

operating dog churns or fire spits] the glen of imaal terriers short crooked front legs and his powerful rear

end made him ideally suited to this task no wonder this turnspit dog as he was sometimes called, on noticing

any unusual stir or activity about the kitchen would,if not kept under close observation,abscond at the possible opportunity. the only way of dealing with this domestic catastrophe was to send for the neighbours

dog or do the work oneself

a 16th century work,[the noble art of venerie] by george tuberville, mentions two sorts of terriers one sort

had crooked legs and according to tuberville originated from flanders or another of the low countries,

those with the crooked legs says tuberville will take to earth better than the other and are better for badger,

because they will lye longer at a vermin.the glen of imaal is just such a crooked legged dog used for badger

hunting, but nowone knows exactly how long it has a distinct breed in ireland. the obvious conection between

this referance and the plantation of the area around the same period cannot be ruled out.

an early referance to the breed comes from the end of the 19th century,though fanciers who mentioned the

breed seamed unclear about its appereance and colour the blue and tan colours,however,were frequently

mentioned,along with the wheaton and black and tan coat.the irish kennel club gave official recognition

to the breed in 1933 and it was shown in 1934 a club to promote its intrests was soon formed.

the dog is not shown in large numbers,but it appears regularly at irish showswhere it still has the reputation

of being very much a working as well as show dog.

mr dan odonoghue and frank fallon from poulaphouca,west wicklow kept the breed intact during a lean periodjust after the war in the early 70s mr and mrs t cleary assembled the remaining enthusiasts and

renamed the old club the glen of imaal owners and breeders association

apart from those mentioned there are numerous enthusiasts in west wicklow and throughout ireland who are

not show oriented and whos names never appear in stud books or in the list of owners of champions

never the less thier contrbution to the breed should not be underestimated

the glen of imaal is a good family pet and is said to be less easily excited than some terriers,though he is

always ready to give chase when called upon

anna redlich says his bravery is well known,the dog will not utter a whimper she says when deep down

underground he is mauled or even killed by a badger.

 

i hope you enjoy the read as im am very passionate about this breed

 

 

all the best billy bunter

 

Interesting read,id say the theory about them coming from flanders via hessian mercenaries is pure shite though-they are too much like a wheaten ,appearance and workwise not to be from the same origin..

 

There are a few inconsistent ideas in the original post.

Not having a go Billy Bunter, but where did the first paragraph come from?

I have lived and travelled in Ireland my whole life, seen a fair few big houses that are open to the public.

I have a good grasp of irish history and its architecture.

I have never seen a "spit" that was powered by a dog. Does anybody else have evidence of these?

 

If the people of The Glen of Imaal were wrestling a living from the land.

They would have lived in small cottages, tatched roof and open fire.

Why would they have a "spit". The common tool was a crane type device to cook food over the open fire.

They would not be roasting a pig on a spit every evening!!.

If they needed a dog at all, it would have been a working sheep dog.

For rats, a 12lb terrier would do the job.

For fox and badger (which would have been a sport)they would need a 14-16lb terrier to achieve all they needed.

Where would they need a 30-40lb dog.

They would have to feed it a bucket of food every day, food that they barely had for them selves.

As for it being a fighting dog. (Another sport) What would thay have to gain?

These poeople were too busy making a living to keep a fighting dog on the off chance that it would become a "champion".

 

I think if you use common sense, The Glen is just a bandy legged Wheaten,

like the West Highland White is a white Cairn.

 

These stories are so false and patched together that you have to wonder whats the point.

Just my opinion.

[Guest THE BEATNICK]

yes ive read about dogs called the turnspit i have it in a dog book somewhere theres even a picture of a little tan coloured dog i think it says they were last used in germany and wales.

[fat man 4,741]

yes ive read about dogs called the turnspit i have it in a dog book somewhere theres even a picture of a little tan coloured dog i think it says they were last used in germany and wales.

There's no dogs called a turnspit,the turnspit was a device used for spit roasting a pig.

[p3d 879]

yes ive read about dogs called the turnspit i have it in a dog book somewhere theres even a picture of a little tan coloured dog i think it says they were last used in germany and wales.

 

Is this the dog you have in mind.

last dog used in a turnspit in Wales. c 1850

Looks like version of a Teckel to me.

 

Below is an engraving and text;

Turnspit dog at work in the inn at Newcastle, Carmarthen, Wales, c1800 (1869).

These short-legged dogs were bred especially to work in wheels turning cooking spits.

By 1800 the breed had almost disappeared.

 

Same image different source:

 

A Dog Turnspit in a Kitchen at Newcastle Emlyn, South Wales by Thomas Rowlandson. c. 1800. Source: Jekyll, page 43.

In some old spits . . . turnspit dogs were the motive power. From the spit, a chain or cord was conveyed to the dog wheel fixed at some convenient height against the wall of the kitchen. The dog worked inside the wheel, whose flooring had transverse battens for his foothold. They were small, short legged, long bodied dogs, something the shape of a dachshund. [Jekyll, 43]

These image displays an Inn with meat hanging from the ceiling.

 

 

The cottages in Ireland from 1800 to 1850 and later were very basic affairs.

 

 

How many "spits" could we guess where in the Glen of Imaal? 2..3..4?

A place so sparsly populated The Irish goverment turned it into a Military bombing range.

 

By 1850 the Famine was in full swing. Any dog weighing 30/40 lb would have

ended up in the spit not turning it!!

Edited March 29, 2011 by p3d

[Guest THE BEATNICK]

yes thats the dog and see fat man they called the dog after the spit because it turned it= turnspit. just same as a dog that pulls a sleigh no matter the breed is called a sled dog.

Edited March 29, 2011 by THE BEATNICK

[Bryan 1,362]

 

The cottages in Ireland from 1800 to 1850 and later were very basic affairs.

 

 

How many "spits" could we guess where in the Glen of Imaal? 2..3..4?

A place so sparsly populated The Irish goverment turned it into a Military bombing range.

 

By 1850 the Famine was in full swing. Any dog weighing 30/40 lb would have

ended up in the spit not turning it!!

 

Spot on, no way were native irish people having roast dinners in the 1800's.

[BOLIO1 1,078]

p3d I like your logic.

 

The fighting dogs of Ireland were well documented in the history of the A.P.B.T. and they were of the same type that travelled to the new world from all over the British Isles and from further afield....smooth coated strong headed bulldog types. Can you imagine these squat, elongated glens competing with dogs such as Daleys Ned or the early Colby dogs. If they could have done so why were none of these dogs taken to the U.S.A. at the same time?

We have to remember that the so called histories for the k.c. breeds are formulated by the breed clubs at the time when they petition for inclusion in the list of recognised breeds. As Richard Stratton says, it wouldn't do for an emerging breed to be caught without a history!

All this nonsense about whatever type of dog being the result of a cross between this or that breed, stems from the time in the mid 1800's when showing took off and when Darwins theory of evolution was highly controversial. It would have created an uproar if someone had claimed that any particular dog breed had evolved to its present form based upon selection for a certain set of traits. So the popular notion was that each breed must have come from the merging of two or more older breeds. This idea, drawn to its logical conclusion, would mean there had to be a wide range of breeds to begin with...sort of the opposite to the way dog breeds have evolved.

I remember about 40 years ago getting what I think was a pull out suppliment from some publication or other which included a chart purporting to show the ancestry of the modern dog breeds. This chart claimed that the Belington terrier developed from a cross of Whippet and Dandie Dinmont......believe it or not the same chart had the Whippet down as a cross between Bedlington and Greyhound! That would mean the Whippet was its own grandparent and the Beddy was its own grandparent.

[p3d 879]

p3d I like your logic.

 

The fighting dogs of Ireland were well documented in the history of the A.P.B.T. and they were of the same type that travelled to the new world from all over the British Isles and from further afield....smooth coated strong headed bulldog types. Can you imagine these squat, elongated glens competing with dogs such as Daleys Ned or the early Colby dogs. If they could have done so why were none of these dogs taken to the U.S.A. at the same time?

We have to remember that the so called histories for the k.c. breeds are formulated by the breed clubs at the time when they petition for inclusion in the list of recognised breeds. As Richard Stratton says, it wouldn't do for an emerging breed to be caught without a history!

All this nonsense about whatever type of dog being the result of a cross between this or that breed, stems from the time in the mid 1800's when showing took off and when Darwins theory of evolution was highly controversial. It would have created an uproar if someone had claimed that any particular dog breed had evolved to its present form based upon selection for a certain set of traits. So the popular notion was that each breed must have come from the merging of two or more older breeds. This idea, drawn to its logical conclusion, would mean there had to be a wide range of breeds to begin with...sort of the opposite to the way dog breeds have evolved.

I remember about 40 years ago getting what I think was a pull out suppliment from some publication or other which included a chart purporting to show the ancestry of the modern dog breeds. This chart claimed that the Belington terrier developed from a cross of Whippet and Dandie Dinmont......believe it or not the same chart had the Whippet down as a cross between Bedlington and Greyhound! That would mean the Whippet was its own grandparent and the Beddy was its own grandparent.

 

BOLIO1 I agree,

 

The sad part is that the breed clubs/ Interest Groups spout this rubbish and Joe public accepts it.

The lads who hunt,fought dogs in the past (pre shows 1870+) would spin in there graves if they saw what happened to there breeds.

I can barely struggle to understand the people who try to justify the NORMAL shaped terriers. (Border, Staff, Parson etc..) but at least they had some recent history.

BUT the people who fool themselves that a deformed breed like the Glen worked underground, or fought to scratch!!

That the Bedlington that Joseph Aynsley bred still exists!! Who looks at this dog and does not SEE a Whippet cross.

That the Dandie climbed the fells to work a borran!! and was not invented based on a Book!!

It still amazes me to read the Smooth Black dogs are called "Patterdales" and there is No Bull in them?

 

AND I know there are exceptions.

JMHO

ATB