RSPCA

[TOPPER 1,809]

play the game all right but never let them in or around your property , keep them on the doorstep or better still in the road be polite suck up to them but never let them in don t go looking for arguements etc , if you let them in they will find something to get at you with .

[gnasher16 30,217]

Are you talking from personal experience G ?

 

 

Unfortunately yes ive had my share of brushes with authorities over the years.........and one thing ive learned is if you didnt do it then get them in and out as quick as possible and phone the brief !.....chances are you will hear no more but you have your shit in order no matter what....

[spanj 11]

for those that arent sure ,you might be interested in this http://www.webtribe.net/~shg/rspcarights.htm

 

Mods this should be a "pinned" subject. It is an excellent and pragmatic guide.

[spanj 11]

Whenever i hear all this " tell them to f**k off "...and...." there only charity workers " bla bla bla...it always gets me thinking,do some people actually crave attention,do they actually WANT a complicated life......it never ceases to amaze me how some folk seem to want to act the caveman and stand firm when in reality 3 minutes of sensibility will end the problem......whether you like it or not lads and lasses the rspca DO carry weight and although they have no powers and yes are simply a charity they are seen by police as an authority on animal care and welfare,hence 1 quick phonecall will have police AND rspca knocking on your door...or if your really unlucky knocking it down !.....

In my opinion if you do have something to hide then yes tell them to f**k off....give yourself time to get sorted and what not......but if you dont have anything to hide then just let then in do what they got to do be polite and then say goodbye,the whole things over for them and you,everyones a winner......but whether you have something to hide or not if you tell them to f**k off they WILL keep coming back because its their duty to follow these things through and they wont stop until they have......so if your not hiding nothing why not just get it over with and live a quiet life,.....maybe some folk just like the attention.

 

Nobody "like attention"....... they only "carry weight" because "people" kow tow to them. They ARE only charity workers & thats not meant disparagingly. Would you let oxfam go round your house on a whim? They carry as much weight as rspca. Have a look at the link on this thread, it details in great clarity the rspcas position. Each to their own but you really need to stand up for yourself. I would cooperate fully with coppers but NEVER the rspca. For info I am no caveman, I'm fairly erudite and believe in due process. This does not include elevating charities (no matter how well backed) to Crown Authority status.

 

RANT OVER

[gnasher16 30,217]

[quote name='spanj' date='Apr 14 2009, 05:33 PM' post='1007024'

 

Nobody "like attention"....... they only "carry weight" because "people" kow tow to them. They ARE only charity workers & thats not meant disparagingly. Would you let oxfam go round your house on a whim? They carry as much weight as rspca. Have a look at the link on this thread, it details in great clarity the rspcas position. Each to their own but you really need to stand up for yourself. I would cooperate fully with coppers but NEVER the rspca. For info I am no caveman, I'm fairly erudite and believe in due process. This does not include elevating charities (no matter how well backed) to Crown Authority status.

 

RANT OVER

 

Thing is mate....reality is a far different thing from what go,s on in the mind before the event..........i,ll use the dangerous dogs act as an example simply because ive experience of it.....now your stood their in court giving it the " f**k you rspca " attitude......whos " expert opinion " do you think the court is going to listen to....your mate dave who knows what a pit bull is ? or an expert from the rspca ?................i dont like it,you dont like it......but the hard fact is,the rspca DO carry weight where it counts......in court !

[Leeview 791]

WARNING once you invite/give/let them have access to your property, they are entitled to return in the future and enter your property whether your there or not because you invited/let/gave them access previously when you had nothing to hide THINK ABOUT IT

Y.I.S Leeview

[Waz 4,266]

I dont think I would let them over the threshold. Like has been said eyes are a scanning, you only got to have a certain book on a shelf or an old trophy on the wall and the alarms in their heads are off.

[kingkeeper21 2]

hi mate, i have had one of theese gloriouse slips through the letter box but it was about my dogs, they stay in the kennels all the time but no one had a problem with the dogs it was that my little patterdale got out and desided to play a little rough with a cat down the road (if you now what i mean).

i rang the number at least 15 times and still could not get the officer to returtn my calls and i havent heard nothing since this was nearly two years ago.

dont worry about it mate if they can see the ferretsare happy and healthy you got nthing to worry about.

 

p.s. tell next door to wear some f*****g ear plugs f they dont like it.

[gnasher16 30,217]

WARNING once you invite/give/let them have access to your property, they are entitled to return in the future and enter your property whether your there or not because you invited/let/gave them access previously when you had nothing to hide THINK ABOUT IT

Y.I.S Leeview

 

 

Dont be ridiculous......nobody but nobody is allowed to break into your home when your not there !......so little aunt mable who had an rspca officer round to check on her moggy 3 years ago might come home from shopping next week to find they have broken in through the kitchen window ?

You can invite the queen into your home she cant come back and break in when your not there just because you invited her in once before

[mikecat1 0]

just a bit of reading for you, i wouldnt let them in myself !!!

 

The following has been taken from the Self Help Group for Farmers & Others which was set up after a group of farmers believed they were unreasonably and unfairly ‘targeted’ by the RSPCA. ( http://the-shg.org/index.htm )

 

Things to remember about the RSPCA.

 

> The RSPCA is a charity.

 

> The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body.

 

> Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever.

 

> They have NO special powers to arrest offenders.

 

> They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions.

 

> They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request.

 

> They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals.

 

> Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against alleged offenders by way of private prosecution.

 

> Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The lowest rank in the Inspectorate is ‘Inspector’ (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have Chief Inspectors, Superintendent, and Chief Superintendent. None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public.

 

What to do if the RSPCA come calling.

 

You get a knock at the door; you open it. It’s the R.S.P.C.A.

 

The “officer†may or may not be in uniform but, crucially, the police are not in attendance.

 

What should you do? Do not panic and do not let the uniform or the attitude intimidate you.

 

There is a good chance that you will be cautioned using the words “You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not now mention something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidenceâ€. All this means is that the R.S.P.C.A. officer can now give evidence in court as to what you say.

 

At this time the R.S.P.C.A. have no powers to arrest you, all they can do is report you for summons. We recommend that you ask “Am I under arrest?†Note their response.

 

It is very important that you do not allow them entry into your premises.

 

> They have no rights to be on your property.

 

> They have no special legal powers.

 

> They cannot demand entry to look at your animals.

 

> They cannot demand that you answer questions.

 

You may feel that you are being helpful to let them in and have a look round and you may feel that you have nothing to hide but do not let yourself be lulled into a false sense of security. Many innocent animal keepers have lost their animals in this way.

 

If you allow them in you are opening yourself up to problems which could lead to you losing your animals even if you are a good and conscientious keeper.

 

Be firm, but polite, and do not let them into your house, or other premises. Say “I have been advised not to answer any questions put by, or in the presence of, R.S.P.C.A. officials without a solicitor present. If you wish to question me I must insist that you arrange, and pay for, the police duty solicitor to be presentâ€. Ask them to leave saying “Unless you have lawful authorisation to enter my premises I want you to leave nowâ€.

 

If they refuse to leave you are entitled to use reasonable force to eject them, as you would any other common trespasser. Do not think that this is the end of the matter – they will probably be back, perhaps with the police. Telephone one of the emergency helpline numbers (at the bottom of this post) and they will do their best to put you in touch with people who can help. They can also advise on how you should now proceed.

 

The basic advice would be that you need to photograph your animals and your enclosures, invite a trusted friend to look over your stock and conditions or, preferably, get someone whose testimony would carry more weight to look over your animals/pets. It would certainly be a good idea to have a specialist vet check and write you a report. The helpline can put you in touch with expert witnesses and veterinarians and they can also seek legal advice on your behalf.

 

What do you do if the police attend your premises with the R.S.P.C.A.?

 

Ask “Do you have a search warrant, or other lawful authority, to enter my premises? Insist on a yes or no answer.

 

If the answer is no they have no right to demand access don’t let them in and proceed as you would if the R.S.P.C.A. are attending on their own.

 

Many people feel intimidated when faced with “mob-handed†visits but the law is on your side.

 

No matter what the R.S.P.C.A. may say to you, do not be tempted to let them in without proper authority.

 

No legal seizure of your animals can take place unless entry to your premises has taken place with proper authority.

 

If in any doubt, or you simply want some back-up, call the either of the helpline numbers or get someone to call on your behalf.

 

If they do have a search warrant ask “May I see and read the search warrant?†Ensure that you read the warrant before they try to enter unless they state it is urgent. It is very important that you don’t to anything to obstruct the police officer(s).

 

Check to see who is authorised to enter by the warrant. Only allow the persons authorised in the warrant onto your property and insist that any others leave.

 

Ask for a witness to be allowed in. Get a friend to come over as soon as possible. Call the emergency helpline as soon as you are able and they will try to locate an expert witness in your area to attend. They can also get legal advice for you. The sooner they know you have a problem the sooner they can start acting on your behalf. Once your animals have been seized it can be quite difficult to get them back and they (the helpline) would always try to prevent seizures being carried out.

Ensure that you record the time that any search is initiated and also the time at which it is finished. Record the details of anyone who enters and insist that you see ID cards for anyone in plain clothes.

 

Remember that anyone not specifically named on the warrant can be told to leave. If they do not leave they are guilty of trespass.

 

Don’t be bullied, be firm but polite at all times. If you feel the situation is getting out of hand, or you want advice, call the helpline.

 

With reference to your property (whether it is your animals or any documentation), only the police have the authority to remove items. The R.S.P.C.A. (or any other charity) have absolutely no authority to remove your property (and this includes your animals) without your consent.

 

If the police want to take things away seek further advice from the helpline immediately. Insist that you are given a full receipt that lists everything in detail (e.g. 75 sheets of paper, 2 notebooks, etc.) do not accept receipts for, for example, “a quantity of correspondence†make sure it is listed in full.

 

Should your animals be removed by the police you are entitled to inspect them wherever they may have been placed and you are entitled to an independent veterinary inspection, which the R.S.P.C.A. are obliged to pay for.

 

If you are arrested insist that you speak only to the police and do not answer questions with the R.S.P.C.A. present. Insist that you wish to speak to the duty solicitor and do not make a written statement until you have spoken to the duty solicitor.

 

The police may have some other authority to enter your premises which means they can go in without a search warrant. They can, for example, enter to arrest you for various offences without your consent. If they use this authority it does not enable anyone else to enter so you can insist that all other persons leave your premises, unless they can give a lawful authority for their being present.

 

If you are unfortunate enough to be the subject of a raid you may well find yourself overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people that end up on your doorstep. With police officers, R.S.P.C.A. personnel and members of other charities brought in as consultants or handlers (and last but not least film crews!) you may well be facing a dozen or more people. Thus intimidated, even though you know your rights, you could find yourself pressured into allowing admittance to your house or other premises. Most keepers are law abiding citizens who have been accustomed to cooperating with authority figures and this is what makes you vulnerable.

 

Perfectly healthy-looking animals have also been removed “for further examinationâ€, never to be returned. Do not be persuaded to sign away your animals, for examination off your premises, or for any other purpose – you will probably not have them returned.

 

The emergency helpline numbers are 023 8044 0999 or 1470 0870 072 6689

[Malt 379]

WARNING once you invite/give/let them have access to your property, they are entitled to return in the future and enter your property whether your there or not because you invited/let/gave them access previously when you had nothing to hide THINK ABOUT IT

Y.I.S Leeview

 

 

Dont be ridiculous......nobody but nobody is allowed to break into your home when your not there !......so little aunt mable who had an rspca officer round to check on her moggy 3 years ago might come home from shopping next week to find they have broken in through the kitchen window ?

You can invite the queen into your home she cant come back and break in when your not there just because you invited her in once before

 

Not strictly true Gnasher mate, a bailiff can gain entry to your house once you've let them in once. I'm not talking about a court/customs bailiff either, just the plain old debt collectors. They are not allowed to force entry the first time they visit, but they can gain entry through an open door/window.

 

Once they've been in and placed levy notices on things, they then have the right to come back to your house and gain forced entry.

[gnasher16 30,217]

Not strictly true Gnasher mate, a bailiff can gain entry to your house once you've let them in once. I'm not talking about a court/customs bailiff either, just the plain old debt collectors. They are not allowed to force entry the first time they visit, but they can gain entry through an open door/window.

 

Once they've been in and placed levy notices on things, they then have the right to come back to your house and gain forced entry.

 

 

Well shit in your hat and punch it !!.....i stand corrected then mr maltenby i didnt know that..........i maintain though,the rspca cannot do that,that i do know........the bailiffs,fair cop thats a new one on me...better start paying the bills then

[Malt 379]

Not strictly true Gnasher mate, a bailiff can gain entry to your house once you've let them in once. I'm not talking about a court/customs bailiff either, just the plain old debt collectors. They are not allowed to force entry the first time they visit, but they can gain entry through an open door/window.

 

Once they've been in and placed levy notices on things, they then have the right to come back to your house and gain forced entry.

 

 

Well shit in your hat and punch it !!.....i stand corrected then mr maltenby i didnt know that..........i maintain though,the rspca cannot do that,that i do know........the bailiffs,fair cop thats a new one on me...better start paying the bills then

[screwball22 0]

tell em to f**k off. when they come back with the filth and search warrants and all that bollucks. you then fully cooperate show em round ur spotless flawless enclosure then they all look like a bunch of numptys for wasting there time your time and police money then get onto ur local newspaper and and show em up for wat they are. sorted.

[COMPO 54]

there is some sense in speaking with them and showing you have nothing to hide and in a fair world that would be brilliant, they come in hold a few ferrets, have a cuppa a chat and leave....lovely!

 

However on another forum i am on....there is links to the SHG group and others.......one example was a lady who kept rabbits.......the RSPCA had recieved a complaint......they came round whilst she was cleaning the hutches and several rabbits were in one empty and bare hutch whilst shee cleaned out,topped up food and water etc,

The RSPCA person....tipped out teh water bowl and put it back in empty and then began taking pictures of this overcrowded bare hutch with no water or food! they staged the picture to make it look like the rabbits were normally 6 to a hutch with no bedding,food or water....which was obviously not true and was a blatant "set" up which the police would be getting into trouble for doing.......but as the RSPCA aren't a government enforcement agency and aren't accountable like the police!

 

Its a predicament that i wouldn't want to be in

 

My brother had a complaint about his dogs....he let them in and chatted to them, they advised him on a different type of water bowl, then left and never said another thing! and he never had another visit!

 

Inviting people in only extends to where you invite them, you can invite someone into the living room, if they exceed the extent of the permission you give them they are trespassing and you can use reasonable force to eject them if they dont leave on request!

 

An invitation in only extends to that visit, they wouldn't be able to enter again without your permission however as the rspca know trespass is only a civil matter and is usually dealt with by asking them to leave/throwing them out, its not a criminal offence so the police wont be able to help/prosecute the person. and the RSPCA know the worst they will get is thrown out!

and any pictures they took would be there own to use later..............garden security and hedges/fences are useful for more than stopping thiefs

 

anyway, i would have a few friends present(witnesses) possibly even a camcorder (they cant stop you its your house-if they dont want filming then they dont come in!) and invite them in show them the ferrets with your witnesses around, then ask them to leave if they are happy, tell them that the ferrets are well cared for and explain why they may be noisy! and explain why!

Edited April 15, 2009 by COMPO