plummer Terriers

[Bosun11 537]

  digger63 said:

  foxfan said:

  digger63 said:

foxfan

 

I would like to tell the story,its perfectly true and involves some of the best terrier men this country has produced,as far as i know the strain has gone now,or its that diluted you couldnt say they had much influence on the dogs its still in.

 

I could tell you about some ins and outs of things but not be to specific,if you are interested?

 

 

Did'nt reply last night cos i went to bed (ran out of cider, lol)

Always interested to hear about terrier history, not interested if it involves slagging people though.

Not saying that you would do that pal.

 

Foxfan

after a lot of thought ive decided i cant risk offending my friends,afterall if they wanted publicity they could write a book[wish they would]when i speak to the man involved i will ask if he would be ok with a basic version of events being told.

For now all i can say is,the original dogs Plummer brought up north were a mix of unknown breeding,definatly Russell type and containing bull blood,this was mixed with lakeland blood obtained from Sid Wilkinson [rip].

Some very well known dogs were bred by mixing the 2 types together and ive never seen anything i would rather own.

As for the "unknown" bull blood that entered the later terriers,it wasnt unknown,and Plummer himself said it was added to improve the skin,the early dogs had skin and coat problems and even using lakeland blood didnt cure some of them of it,so what Plummer said did make sense.

Hope that doesn't sound like a cop out,atb steve.

 

I thought that 'Unknown' dog was known too, the self proclaimed 'spade hater' Plummer mentions it in one of his books, 'The Hackett White' if I remember correct?

 

It's a shame you can't go into those original dogs D63, back when I read Plummer books these seemed the most interesting things in 'em.

 

I always wondered as to why Plummer wrote the Fell Terrier (arguably his best, though flawed, work) when he must have had good knowlege of some great old lines, terrier men and tales from his native Welsh Valley's but I suppose, in hindsight, making the journey back to write a book on those he usually pulled to pieces wouldn't have been a good idea.

Seems to me by heading north, one of his reasons was that he could loose his 'reputation', though some up there didn't wear him, Bill Brightmoor for one, hence his ridiculous abcence from the book.

[born to hunt 0]

  foxfan said:

Come on, does anyone HONESTLY use them for regular digging ?

 

i do he is agood dog toooo

[stormyboy 1,352]

  digger63 said:

  foxfan said:

  digger63 said:

foxfan

 

I would like to tell the story,its perfectly true and involves some of the best terrier men this country has produced,as far as i know the strain has gone now,or its that diluted you couldnt say they had much influence on the dogs its still in.

 

I could tell you about some ins and outs of things but not be to specific,if you are interested?

 

 

Did'nt reply last night cos i went to bed (ran out of cider, lol)

Always interested to hear about terrier history, not interested if it involves slagging people though.

Not saying that you would do that pal.

 

Foxfan

after a lot of thought ive decided i cant risk offending my friends,afterall if they wanted publicity they could write a book[wish they would]when i speak to the man involved i will ask if he would be ok with a basic version of events being told.

For now all i can say is,the original dogs Plummer brought up north were a mix of unknown breeding,definatly Russell type and containing bull blood,this was mixed with lakeland blood obtained from Sid Wilkinson [rip].

Some very well known dogs were bred by mixing the 2 types together and ive never seen anything i would rather own.

As for the "unknown" bull blood that entered the later terriers,it wasnt unknown,and Plummer himself said it was added to improve the skin,the early dogs had skin and coat problems and even using lakeland blood didnt cure some of them of it,so what Plummer said did make sense.

Hope that doesn't sound like a cop out,atb steve.

The last bull outcross was introduced primarily to eradicate dimorphism that was rife-weak snipy headed bitches were commonly produced. No lakeland blood was used as far as i am aware. And yes plummer terriers will do the job. Mine worked with hounds pre ban.

[Guest lurchers&terriers]

come on now theres lots of posts to prove people dig to plummers . Everybody reads and posts in them but forgets all about it because they love the thought they dont.

do a surch. heres one

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/index...;hl=db+plummers

[Keeps 403]

Thats my pups sire, same one thats pictured in this thread

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/index...15&start=15

sadly no longer alive.

[AMADORE 5]

  stormyboy said:

  digger63 said:

  foxfan said:

  digger63 said:

foxfan

 

I would like to tell the story,its perfectly true and involves some of the best terrier men this country has produced,as far as i know the strain has gone now,or its that diluted you couldnt say they had much influence on the dogs its still in.

 

I could tell you about some ins and outs of things but not be to specific,if you are interested?

 

 

Did'nt reply last night cos i went to bed (ran out of cider, lol)

Always interested to hear about terrier history, not interested if it involves slagging people though.

Not saying that you would do that pal.

 

Foxfan

after a lot of thought ive decided i cant risk offending my friends,afterall if they wanted publicity they could write a book[wish they would]when i speak to the man involved i will ask if he would be ok with a basic version of events being told.

For now all i can say is,the original dogs Plummer brought up north were a mix of unknown breeding,definatly Russell type and containing bull blood,this was mixed with lakeland blood obtained from Sid Wilkinson [rip].

Some very well known dogs were bred by mixing the 2 types together and ive never seen anything i would rather own.

As for the "unknown" bull blood that entered the later terriers,it wasnt unknown,and Plummer himself said it was added to improve the skin,the early dogs had skin and coat problems and even using lakeland blood didnt cure some of them of it,so what Plummer said did make sense.

Hope that doesn't sound like a cop out,atb steve.

The last bull outcross was introduced primarily to eradicate dimorphism that was rife-weak snipy headed bitches were commonly produced. No lakeland blood was used as far as i am aware. And yes plummer terriers will do the job. Mine worked with hounds pre ban.

 

Dimorphism..I would certianly debate the fact that the introduction of yet another breed into the Plummer terrier has or was done to "eradicate dimorphism". Which as now... back then is not a problem. If one presumes you are talking sexual dimorphism....distinct sexual differences.

 

But the facts may help.. DBp used Prices caped (unregistered due to dodgy pedigree)small chesty unspananble male called Mask (38% russell and 30% fell blood minimum) over the bull terrier "Hayley" so the offspring.. Seven, Eight,Nine etc etc are what 50% bull terrier 15% fell 19% russell and the rest well god knows.

 

The offspring were according to Joe Kyrolles (the owner of the bull terrier bitch used).... at DBPs funeral and I quote ....."not what Brian had hoped for " ....obviuosly not due to the mixed blood in the back ground.!!

 

So stage 2 get shut asap and ask new owners to mate back to registered purebreds asap.

 

Dimorphism was an excuse to "play god again"...there were and are males and females of equal size and shape ...I have two now and had 2 back then ...snipey heads are due to uneducated novice breeders breeding within small groups of friends. Not wanting to travel and use the correct most appropriate studs.

 

Pre 1994/ around the mid 's some of the females were massive and leggy and some males short and squat and weak. Due to the diverse genes within the blood. Its my opinion that the genes are still there for the purebred owners ..all they have to do is "get on" with fellow owners and keep the genes mixed up. As for Legion well i doubt linebreeding to "Hayley" will produce non dimophic stock. Peas in a pod are way off ..general similar appearnce yes genetic diversity has been mistaken for dimorphism...end

 

SIRE (RIGHT) DAUGHTER LEFT REASONABLY SIMILAR

 

 

 

ARE THESE TERRIERS SO DIFERENT?

 

 

11MONTH OLD BROTHER AND SISTER

FROM ABOVE MATING

 

2009 PUP

Edited July 15, 2009 by AMADORE

[Cleanspade 3,324]

i thought it was bad form to mention names on these sites. are you a friend of the joe fellow.

[AMADORE 5]

I new JK long before his latest invasion and his endeavour to gain respect amongst some foolish enough to listen ( I did for awhile but soon realised he was on a mission!)..and popularity in fact it was he who judged the Lancaster show which was filmed and sent to DBp. Who then made up his mind to as i say have yet another dabble at playing God.

 

Friend ..nope acquaintance yes may be for him, however he thought DBp was the master and was hudwinked into useing his bull bitch ...shame for him, well both actualy.

[AMADORE 5]

 

 

Surely not an improvement and away of eradicting dimorphism.

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

welsby non working shit, bred for money, colour and a nice to look at dog

[stormyboy 1,352]

  AMADORE said:

  stormyboy said:

  digger63 said:

  foxfan said:

  digger63 said:

foxfan

 

I would like to tell the story,its perfectly true and involves some of the best terrier men this country has produced,as far as i know the strain has gone now,or its that diluted you couldnt say they had much influence on the dogs its still in.

 

I could tell you about some ins and outs of things but not be to specific,if you are interested?

 

 

Did'nt reply last night cos i went to bed (ran out of cider, lol)

Always interested to hear about terrier history, not interested if it involves slagging people though.

Not saying that you would do that pal.

 

Foxfan

after a lot of thought ive decided i cant risk offending my friends,afterall if they wanted publicity they could write a book[wish they would]when i speak to the man involved i will ask if he would be ok with a basic version of events being told.

For now all i can say is,the original dogs Plummer brought up north were a mix of unknown breeding,definatly Russell type and containing bull blood,this was mixed with lakeland blood obtained from Sid Wilkinson [rip].

Some very well known dogs were bred by mixing the 2 types together and ive never seen anything i would rather own.

As for the "unknown" bull blood that entered the later terriers,it wasnt unknown,and Plummer himself said it was added to improve the skin,the early dogs had skin and coat problems and even using lakeland blood didnt cure some of them of it,so what Plummer said did make sense.

Hope that doesn't sound like a cop out,atb steve.

The last bull outcross was introduced primarily to eradicate dimorphism that was rife-weak snipy headed bitches were commonly produced. No lakeland blood was used as far as i am aware. And yes plummer terriers will do the job. Mine worked with hounds pre ban.

 

Dimorphism..I would certianly debate the fact that the introduction of yet another breed into the Plummer terrier has or was done to "eradicate dimorphism". Which as now... back then is not a problem. If one presumes you are talking sexual dimorphism....distinct sexual differences.

 

But the facts may help.. DBp used Prices caped (unregistered due to dodgy pedigree)small chesty unspananble male called Mask (38% russell and 30% fell blood minimum) over the bull terrier "Hayley" so the offspring.. Seven, Eight,Nine etc etc are what 50% bull terrier 15% fell 19% russell and the rest well god knows.

 

The offspring were according to Joe Kyrolles (the owner of the bull terrier bitch used).... at DBPs funeral and I quote ....."not what Brian had hoped for " ....obviuosly not due to the mixed blood in the back ground.!!

 

So stage 2 get shut asap and ask new owners to mate back to registered purebreds asap.

 

Dimorphism was an excuse to "play god again"...there were and are males and females of equal size and shape ...I have two now and had 2 back then ...snipey heads are due to uneducated novice breeders breeding within small groups of friends. Not wanting to travel and use the correct most appropriate studs.

 

Pre 1994/ around the mid 's some of the females were massive and leggy and some males short and squat and weak. Due to the diverse genes within the blood. Its my opinion that the genes are still there for the purebred owners ..all they have to do is "get on" with fellow owners and keep the genes mixed up. As for Legion well i doubt linebreeding to "Hayley" will produce non dimophic stock. Peas in a pod are way off ..general similar appearnce yes genetic diversity has been mistaken for dimorphism...end

 

SIRE (RIGHT) DAUGHTER LEFT REASONABLY SIMILAR

 

 

 

ARE THESE TERRIERS SO DIFERENT?

 

 

11MONTH OLD BROTHER AND SISTER

FROM ABOVE MATING

 

2009 PUP

can you post peds of father & daughter. Prices mask i am told was sired by the legendary Rupert , a noted worker and VERY under used stud. Is this incorrect? His brother Rocky was an inferior stud genetically imo and VERY over used. Line breeding to him was responsible for the the weaker types, both dogs and bitches. You say that you have bred more plummers than anyone alive or dead- which dogs from mid 80s-94 were your base line?

[Cleanspade 3,324]

the outcross stuff imo is holding its own and breeding some decent terriers now only a fool would disregard these dogs as a chance to widen the genepool. there is a dog on a post in terriers now that is a product of the outcross program. the topic is pinsley ace. a very fine young dog. check it out and make your own minds up. have to say i like the look of the two dogs in your first pic. how are they doing work wise?

[barks 0]

iv got a plummer terrier? cracking littel working so far just need a bit more permission so he can inprove more. thay will do the job as good as any

[Cleanspade 3,324]

thats the dog i'm on about

[stormyboy 1,352]

sounds like more personal agendas ?