plummer Terriers

[Fieldsporthunter 1,864]

Nope

 

The Beagle used in the 60 s was out of the Russet show-bred strain and came from some USA imports owned by Philip Ainstay, a fellow teacher friend of Brian's, brought to the UK to tidy up British exhibits. Further outcrosses were introduced. The addition of Fell terrier blood, Jaeger from Nigel Hinchcliffe's lines and Flint from Brian Nuttal's lines, both noted working lines, and most likely desceding from Cyril Brea's stock. Infused refinement of shape and to a certain extent contributed to fixing type, Pagan, a black and tan terrier is acknowledged as one of the early pillars of the breed. Further additions included a Jack Russell terrier known as Eric Forsyth's Pip, Alan Thomas's Hamish and pip from the Chiddingfold and Leconfield foxhound kennels. Unknown bull terrier blood was added to improve the head and strength of jaw and to improve general toughness/ durability in the field. Brian later admitted to the PTA that this was his biggest mistake as fighters were rife amongst his stock. The addition did little to improve heads etc and unfortunately brought about undesirable traits such as patella luxation and rose ears.

 

It must be noted that performance as an earth dog was and is an expected prerequisite of most if not all terrier breeds and Plummers are no exception to this rule. At this point it has to be said that two distinct types began to develop, thesmaller more snipey nosed form and the more bully stronger headed type. At this point Brian opted for the latter, but it is now acknowledged that in the long term it did the breed no favours. Further out crossing to bull blood lines was stopped and due to several years of painstaking discipline regarding choice preferable blood lines a distinct and recognisable type was finally secured.

 

well thats whats in them and that they expected to do earth work. nothing like copie and past.

[fireman 10,977]

you got there before me... i was shocked when he put them up because the ones that boasted they had digging plummers always just posted pics of a dog with his head in a hole and maybe even the lead still on lol.... and then hide behind the excuse that they didnt want to show smashed up dogs lol...

 

Got to show things as they are,all digging dogs get stick at some point in there lives.The man i got my bitch from is on here and he regularly digs to his plummers and so do a few more i know,never bred as solely earthdogs but there are a few doing earthwork regularly and it's these dogs that are important for taking the breed forward as a whole.To many plummers being bred for cash and for good markings with not enough thought being put into the working future of the breed.Black masks on fully caped dogs being vouge at the moment,to many people involoved in the breed who think the dogs aren't as important as themselves and it's down to ego's being boosted instead of the dogs being worked and improved on.I don't have a high number of earths to work on my patch so my digging is restricted as such but i would be digging a lot more with my plummers given the chance,as with all breeds of terriers some do and some don't do earthwork but as long as they get the chance and those that do are the ones that get bred from then all is not lost just yet.

.

[Simoman 110]

I've read the books too fireman

[shinyspade 2]

hes crossed with a russell,hes a very small colourd dog,hes 25mts old and have dug 26 on him,and no more till next oct.

 

thats a lot of work for a young terrier . he'll be glad of the rest. good luck with him next season

[Fieldsporthunter 1,864]

Got to show things as they are,all digging dogs get stick at some point in there lives.The man i got my bitch from is on here and he regularly digs to his plummers and so do a few more i know,never bred as solely earthdogs but there are a few doing earthwork regularly and it's these dogs that are important for taking the breed forward as a whole.To many plummers being bred for cash and for good markings with not enough thought being put into the working future of the breed.Black masks on fully caped dogs being vouge at the moment,to many people involoved in the breed who think the dogs aren't as important as themselves and it's down to ego's being boosted instead of the dogs being worked and improved on.I don't have a high number of earths to work on my patch so my digging is restricted as such but i would be digging a lot more with my plummers given the chance,as with all breeds of terriers some do and some don't do earthwork but as long as they get the chance and those that do are the ones that get bred from then all is not lost just yet. (quote).

 

well i picked my pup based on its parents, it has the worsed markings ive ever seen on a plummer but i dont care. it will never see a show ring.

[fireman 10,977]

Best of luck with your pup mate,keep us updated on progress and all that.A good dog can't be a bad colour thats for sure,when i got my bitch pup she had 2 litter mates that were shattered marked(marked more like a jrt)and these two were prefered by some welsh lads for use with bolting fox to guns as they would be easier to distinguish from a fox as the plummer is a red bodied terrier and mistakes could easily happen.As for badly marked plummers one of the breeds most well know dogs who has helped shaped a few of todays dogs is a shattered dog called "Stanhill Billy",like i said a good dog can't be a bad colour and most of use wouldn't mind a pink dog as long as it grafted as we wanted it to whatever the breed.

[digger63 3]

foxfan

 

I would like to tell the story,its perfectly true and involves some of the best terrier men this country has produced,as far as i know the strain has gone now,or its that diluted you couldnt say they had much influence on the dogs its still in.

 

I could tell you about some ins and outs of things but not be to specific,if you are interested?

 

 

Did'nt reply last night cos i went to bed (ran out of cider, lol)

Always interested to hear about terrier history, not interested if it involves slagging people though.

Not saying that you would do that pal.

 

Foxfan

after a lot of thought ive decided i cant risk offending my friends,afterall if they wanted publicity they could write a book[wish they would]when i speak to the man involved i will ask if he would be ok with a basic version of events being told.

For now all i can say is,the original dogs Plummer brought up north were a mix of unknown breeding,definatly Russell type and containing bull blood,this was mixed with lakeland blood obtained from Sid Wilkinson [rip].

Some very well known dogs were bred by mixing the 2 types together and ive never seen anything i would rather own.

As for the "unknown" bull blood that entered the later terriers,it wasnt unknown,and Plummer himself said it was added to improve the skin,the early dogs had skin and coat problems and even using lakeland blood didnt cure some of them of it,so what Plummer said did make sense.

Hope that doesn't sound like a cop out,atb steve.

[NEWSBOY 306]

The only good Plummer type Terrier's came through Forsyth's Pip - a Russell. Those that bred tight to Pip had reasonable earthdogs. The rest are suitable for bolting/bushing. Nobody will ever breed consistent earthdogs from this breed - fact. Plummer used some good Fell/Russell blood on second rate Terrier's, you cannot breed game Terrier's in such a fashion.

[Fieldsporthunter 1,864]

The only good Plummer type Terrier's came through Forsyth's Pip - a Russell. Those that bred tight to Pip had reasonable earthdogs. The rest are suitable for bolting/bushing. Nobody will ever breed consistent earthdogs from this breed - fact. Plummer used some good Fell/Russell blood on second rate Terrier's, you cannot breed game Terrier's in such a fashion.

 

 

one of the reason i picked a pup out this breed was because ive got a good chance of getting a bolting/bushing terrier, if i do that will be perfect for me.

[shinyspade 2]

The only good Plummer type Terrier's came through Forsyth's Pip - a Russell. Those that bred tight to Pip had reasonable earthdogs. The rest are suitable for bolting/bushing. Nobody will ever breed consistent earthdogs from this breed - fact. Plummer used some good Fell/Russell blood on second rate Terrier's, you cannot breed game Terrier's in such a fashion.

 

it seems to me that if a good percentage of plummer type terriers came from forsyth's pip and breeding tight to those lines produced reasonable earthdogs. then it is possible to do the same again if you were willing to come outside the breed and outcross to the right sort again. the people that had these earthdogs must take some of the responsability for not improving this line and building on its successes. ive heard many stories of the old stuff being capable from good sources. if thats the case what happened to these lines.

 

a good bolting bushing terrier will also suit me. but i'm sure that if someone decided to improve the breed in other ways it would not be an impossible task. however if i wanted an out and out earthdog i would go for a patt/laky or russell bred specifically for that task

[digger63 3]

The "old stuff" my mate had was well tested,and so were the pups out of it,nobody knows what they were even Plummer probably didnt,dogs in those days were bred worker to worker,would the welsh lads who bred them keep putting rubbish in them?

Im no fan of Plummer,but i guarantee 100% the stuff he brought from Wales was not rubbish,they had a bit of skin trouble but thats all you could pick fault with,Plummer was trying to create a distinct "type" he probably culled the best pups he ever bred imo.

[NEWSBOY 306]

they still have probs with skin mate it wont stay undergound for more than 15 mins

[digger63 3]

Being as youve never seen one of the original dogs or anything remotly related to them how would you know that?

 

Im not talking about the modern stuff plummer ended up with they are completely different dogs,i am not interested in what Plummer did with the base stock,i wouldn't have one given.

If youve got an axe to grind with Plummer terriers find someone who is interested in the breed,i never met Plummer and ive never owned a Plummer terrier,im just telling it how it is.

[TheBrock 11]

anyone who knew plummer will know he took advantage of people and there dogs, he brought tried and tested dogs and then pissed about with them until he got what he wanted. The original russells he got were good earth dogs and no one now would even think about crossing so many different breeds there no better than mongrels and the price tag that comes with them is stupid

[shinyspade 2]

i never paid a lot for mine. one was a lot cheaper than an average russell. dont tar everyone with the same brush good and bad in all breeds. what terrier is work bred and not a f****n mongrel.