Collie question

[jamestwo 0]

most colly x will do fox if enterd right and not put to fox too young where as bull x will do fox at younger age but both xs have a part to play in our sport jim

[Neal 1,875]

I'm with Stormrider on this one. I've met sheep and cattle dogs varying from very soft to very hard. Some people get on with certain types and not with others; it's just horses for courses. I feel that one of the biggest problems with collie crosses is people's perceptions of them eg some people prefer a harder dog and meet a soft collie cross and assume they're all like that.

[stormrider8 59]

My question isnt so much are colliex any good, but rather are the collies, (that are being used for crosses), soft dogs themselves? Do you have collies more suited for working cattle than sheep?

 

Take care.

 

 

Yes mate, there are sheep dogs here that are to hard and are used for bullocks, and also cow dogs that are to soft and can only be used for sheep. This is one reason why the collie bred lurcher is so hit and miss..

 

The 3 main reasons collies are used in out crosses for lurchers are stamina, brains and coat....and the reason there are so many "hit and miss" with this x is the majority of the owners either dont use them to their full potential or ruin them by entering incorrectly

 

 

 

Maybe your right mate, but i have also seen very good collie types that would be very hard to beat for the first few years of there life, they give 100%. But alot as they get older dont want to know when the odds are stacked against them.

[undisputed 1,664]

My question isnt so much are colliex any good, but rather are the collies, (that are being used for crosses), soft dogs themselves? Do you have collies more suited for working cattle than sheep?

 

Take care.

 

 

Yes mate, there are sheep dogs here that are to hard and are used for bullocks, and also cow dogs that are to soft and can only be used for sheep. This is one reason why the collie bred lurcher is so hit and miss..

 

The 3 main reasons collies are used in out crosses for lurchers are stamina, brains and coat....and the reason there are so many "hit and miss" with this x is the majority of the owners either dont use them to their full potential or ruin them by entering incorrectly

 

 

 

Maybe your right mate, but i have also seen very good collie types that would be very hard to beat for the first few years of there life, they give 100%. But alot as they get older dont want to know when the odds are stacked against them.

 

 

I can only speak for my own dogs but I've never had a dog quit on me yet.....maybe the secret is not to have the odds stacked against them. I think any dog would struggle if that was the case,knowing your dog and it's limitations is the key. For instance you wouldn't send an older dog out for long courses time and again like you would a younger dog. As a dog gets older it loses speed etc and takes longer to recover from injury you have to adapt acordingly. Any dog of any x will eventually break if you continue to press it beyond its endurance....not just collies....some of the things I've seen folk do with their dogs over the years defies belief....this myth that gets perpetuated by some owners of bull x's about the dog not feeling pain is just plain stupid. I remember a local lad who had one and had bought into the hype....the dog was extremely good at his job but took a lot of damage in the process. Instead of giving the dog time to recover from its injuries he continued to run it. Eventually the dog quit on him in front of his pals and that was the end for him. I had a look at the dog the next day and found that there was a huge hole in the roof of the dog's mouth which explained why he couldn't get to grips with his job on the night. I've also seen some folk slip their dogs time and time again on quarry where there has been little or no chance of the dog catching....rabbits that sit to close to the fence or hedge line that just slip through before the dog comes to terms with them....is it any wonder the dog eventually pulls up short or begins to stalk. Instead of looking at themselves the dog takes the blame and the relationship between owner and dog becomes soured. Most dog's thrive on confidence and the owner should always strive to present the dog with the best opportunity of success. Any dog that gives you 100% deserves the same back in terms of recovery time and aftercare for injuries, remember dogs are not machines your quarry will always be there for another night or day, ruin your dog and you can set yourself back months or even years trying to bring on a new one.

[kent scotty 0]

My question isnt so much are colliex any good, but rather are the collies, (that are being used for crosses), soft dogs themselves? Do you have collies more suited for working cattle than sheep?

 

Take care.

 

 

Yes mate, there are sheep dogs here that are to hard and are used for bullocks, and also cow dogs that are to soft and can only be used for sheep. This is one reason why the collie bred lurcher is so hit and miss..

 

The 3 main reasons collies are used in out crosses for lurchers are stamina, brains and coat....and the reason there are so many "hit and miss" with this x is the majority of the owners either dont use them to their full potential or ruin them by entering incorrectly

 

 

 

Maybe your right mate, but i have also seen very good collie types that would be very hard to beat for the first few years of there life, they give 100%. But alot as they get older dont want to know when the odds are stacked against them.

 

 

I can only speak for my own dogs but I've never had a dog quit on me yet.....maybe the secret is not to have the odds stacked against them. I think any dog would struggle if that was the case,knowing your dog and it's limitations is the key. For instance you wouldn't send an older dog out for long courses time and again like you would a younger dog. As a dog gets older it loses speed etc and takes longer to recover from injury you have to adapt acordingly. Any dog of any x will eventually break if you continue to press it beyond its endurance....not just collies....some of the things I've seen folk do with their dogs over the years defies belief....this myth that gets perpetuated by some owners of bull x's about the dog not feeling pain is just plain stupid. I remember a local lad who had one and had bought into the hype....the dog was extremely good at his job but took a lot of damage in the process. Instead of giving the dog time to recover from its injuries he continued to run it. Eventually the dog quit on him in front of his pals and that was the end for him. I had a look at the dog the next day and found that there was a huge hole in the roof of the dog's mouth which explained why he couldn't get to grips with his job on the night. I've also seen some folk slip their dogs time and time again on quarry where there has been little or no chance of the dog catching....rabbits that sit to close to the fence or hedge line that just slip through before the dog comes to terms with them....is it any wonder the dog eventually pulls up short or begins to stalk. Instead of looking at themselves the dog takes the blame and the relationship between owner and dog becomes soured. Most dog's thrive on confidence and the owner should always strive to present the dog with the best opportunity of success. Any dog that gives you 100% deserves the same back in terms of recovery time and aftercare for injuries, remember dogs are not machines your quarry will always be there for another night or day, ruin your dog and you can set yourself back months or even years trying to bring on a new one.

 

 

couldnt of said it better me self mate.

 

 

scotty

[stormrider8 59]

My question isnt so much are colliex any good, but rather are the collies, (that are being used for crosses), soft dogs themselves? Do you have collies more suited for working cattle than sheep?

 

Take care.

 

 

Yes mate, there are sheep dogs here that are to hard and are used for bullocks, and also cow dogs that are to soft and can only be used for sheep. This is one reason why the collie bred lurcher is so hit and miss..

 

The 3 main reasons collies are used in out crosses for lurchers are stamina, brains and coat....and the reason there are so many "hit and miss" with this x is the majority of the owners either dont use them to their full potential or ruin them by entering incorrectly

 

 

 

Maybe your right mate, but i have also seen very good collie types that would be very hard to beat for the first few years of there life, they give 100%. But alot as they get older dont want to know when the odds are stacked against them.

 

 

I can only speak for my own dogs but I've never had a dog quit on me yet.....maybe the secret is not to have the odds stacked against them. I think any dog would struggle if that was the case,knowing your dog and it's limitations is the key. For instance you wouldn't send an older dog out for long courses time and again like you would a younger dog. As a dog gets older it loses speed etc and takes longer to recover from injury you have to adapt acordingly. Any dog of any x will eventually break if you continue to press it beyond its endurance....not just collies....some of the things I've seen folk do with their dogs over the years defies belief....this myth that gets perpetuated by some owners of bull x's about the dog not feeling pain is just plain stupid. I remember a local lad who had one and had bought into the hype....the dog was extremely good at his job but took a lot of damage in the process. Instead of giving the dog time to recover from its injuries he continued to run it. Eventually the dog quit on him in front of his pals and that was the end for him. I had a look at the dog the next day and found that there was a huge hole in the roof of the dog's mouth which explained why he couldn't get to grips with his job on the night. I've also seen some folk slip their dogs time and time again on quarry where there has been little or no chance of the dog catching....rabbits that sit to close to the fence or hedge line that just slip through before the dog comes to terms with them....is it any wonder the dog eventually pulls up short or begins to stalk. Instead of looking at themselves the dog takes the blame and the relationship between owner and dog becomes soured. Most dog's thrive on confidence and the owner should always strive to present the dog with the best opportunity of success. Any dog that gives you 100% deserves the same back in terms of recovery time and aftercare for injuries, remember dogs are not machines your quarry will always be there for another night or day, ruin your dog and you can set yourself back months or even years trying to bring on a new one.

 

 

Thats just my point though, how many times have you seen stuff caught where you thought it was near impossible. Dogs that will try and try and not get disheartened are in my opinion the best. I'm not saying that i would expect or send my dog to stuff thats near impossible all the time but if i do i know that they will will give 100% whatever and alot of the times come out on top. Like you say its knowing your dog, dogs that stalk or refuse to chase because they think they dont have a chance are in my opinion a load of shite. Everybody loves a tryer! i know what i would choose every time. cheers mate

[undisputed 1,664]

My question isnt so much are colliex any good, but rather are the collies, (that are being used for crosses), soft dogs themselves? Do you have collies more suited for working cattle than sheep?

 

Take care.

 

 

Yes mate, there are sheep dogs here that are to hard and are used for bullocks, and also cow dogs that are to soft and can only be used for sheep. This is one reason why the collie bred lurcher is so hit and miss..

 

The 3 main reasons collies are used in out crosses for lurchers are stamina, brains and coat....and the reason there are so many "hit and miss" with this x is the majority of the owners either dont use them to their full potential or ruin them by entering incorrectly

 

 

 

Maybe your right mate, but i have also seen very good collie types that would be very hard to beat for the first few years of there life, they give 100%. But alot as they get older dont want to know when the odds are stacked against them.

 

 

I can only speak for my own dogs but I've never had a dog quit on me yet.....maybe the secret is not to have the odds stacked against them. I think any dog would struggle if that was the case,knowing your dog and it's limitations is the key. For instance you wouldn't send an older dog out for long courses time and again like you would a younger dog. As a dog gets older it loses speed etc and takes longer to recover from injury you have to adapt acordingly. Any dog of any x will eventually break if you continue to press it beyond its endurance....not just collies....some of the things I've seen folk do with their dogs over the years defies belief....this myth that gets perpetuated by some owners of bull x's about the dog not feeling pain is just plain stupid. I remember a local lad who had one and had bought into the hype....the dog was extremely good at his job but took a lot of damage in the process. Instead of giving the dog time to recover from its injuries he continued to run it. Eventually the dog quit on him in front of his pals and that was the end for him. I had a look at the dog the next day and found that there was a huge hole in the roof of the dog's mouth which explained why he couldn't get to grips with his job on the night. I've also seen some folk slip their dogs time and time again on quarry where there has been little or no chance of the dog catching....rabbits that sit to close to the fence or hedge line that just slip through before the dog comes to terms with them....is it any wonder the dog eventually pulls up short or begins to stalk. Instead of looking at themselves the dog takes the blame and the relationship between owner and dog becomes soured. Most dog's thrive on confidence and the owner should always strive to present the dog with the best opportunity of success. Any dog that gives you 100% deserves the same back in terms of recovery time and aftercare for injuries, remember dogs are not machines your quarry will always be there for another night or day, ruin your dog and you can set yourself back months or even years trying to bring on a new one.

 

 

Thats just my point though, how many times have you seen stuff caught where you thought it was near impossible. Dogs that will try and try and not get disheartened are in my opinion the best. I'm not saying that i would expect or send my dog to stuff thats near impossible all the time but if i do i know that they will will give 100% whatever and alot of the times come out on top. Like you say its knowing your dog, dogs that stalk or refuse to chase because they think they dont have a chance are in my opinion a load of shite. Everybody loves a tryer! i know what i would choose every time. cheers mate

 

Have to disagree on some bits there...it's getting a balance and a bit of perspective about this....on the one hand a dog that pulls up before a fence or hedge can be frustrating as hell but might save you £'s on vet bills or being laid up in the kennel for weeks. If the person slipping the dog isn't giving the dog the opportunity to come to terms with whatever it's chasing it can lead to pulling up. I've seen foxes slip through gaps in iron railings without breaking their stride if the dog followed suit you'd be picking up the pieces all night. Some of my dog's have rammed full pelt into rabbit burrows in an effort to catch and to see them flip over with their heads down a hole is a frightening experience. Most dogs will give you 100% as long as the opportunity is there for them to do so. Sometimes owners are more keener than their dogs and the expectations can be high...sometimes the dog cant live up to them. We can all applaud the near impossible catches but sooner or later a dog that charges in without regard will come to mischief. As I've become older and marginally wiser I've come to appreciate the dog sometimes is a better judge than me about the possibility of catching what it's chasing.....ATB

[foxfan 479]

As we know, when lamping, if a dog gets in quick and rattles its rabbit, they (the rabbit) will quite often balk at the hedge and bounce back out into the field, its bloody frustrating when you've got fields full of game, and the dog starts dictating what he will or wont run.

But you're right its a question of confidence, the 3 quarter cross i had, that stalked on the lamp only did it on rabbits. He could'nt catch rabbits, crap at it, and not too clever behind a hare, he was very useful on bigger stuff however, and a very game dog.

imho the bull cross is just another fashion, lurchers dont need pitbull in them. Still collies for me.

Just my opinion. cheers.

[undisputed 1,664]

It's more of a tap than a kick

[stormrider8 59]

As we know, when lamping, if a dog gets in quick and rattles its rabbit, they (the rabbit) will quite often balk at the hedge and bounce back out into the field, its bloody frustrating when you've got fields full of game, and the dog starts dictating what he will or wont run.

But you're right its a question of confidence, the 3 quarter cross i had, that stalked on the lamp only did it on rabbits. He could'nt catch rabbits, crap at it, and not too clever behind a hare, he was very useful on bigger stuff however, and a very game dog.

imho the bull cross is just another fashion, lurchers dont need pitbull in them. Still collies for me.

Just my opinion. cheers.

 

Yeah I know what you mean but this usually caused by dogs running to many rabbits that get through the fence and the dog gets it into it's head they all will do that and starts to pull up. My mates collie x will sometimes stalk them and it's funny to watch him walking behind the dog kicking it on the ass to get it to move. Other times the dog will run straight down the beam and bang them before they know what's hit them if it's out in the middle of the field then there's no hesitation.

 

Obviously dosen't bother your mate to much, iv'e had them myself mate, does my f.....g head in. Its a natural thing for collie/x dog to do. A collie also stalks or creeps up on its flock in the same way, its in them all!!

I was out the other night with a 3/4 coll/grey which was trying to round up rabbits, the other dog was picking them up easy. But then the same dog would run through a hedge backwards to catch a near on impossible deer!! Why?

[camies 1]

I've been lucky with my collie or more accurately my sprollie (first cross springer / collie).

 

She is a lovely responsive dog with the good qualities from both i.e. loves to run all day, swim, and lift game.

 

Having said that, she has pinned a couple of rabbits to the deck, not killing them, just pinning them until I got there.

 

Intellegence wise, she reacts to both hand and whistle directions outside PROVIDED there isn't any water near. then she turns into a duck!

 

Took her lamping and she soon learnt to follow the spotlight.

 

Just one little flaw. We won't retrieve anything! Points to where it has fallen, stands over it, but won't even carry it if I give it to her.

[undisputed 1,664]

As we know, when lamping, if a dog gets in quick and rattles its rabbit, they (the rabbit) will quite often balk at the hedge and bounce back out into the field, its bloody frustrating when you've got fields full of game, and the dog starts dictating what he will or wont run.

But you're right its a question of confidence, the 3 quarter cross i had, that stalked on the lamp only did it on rabbits. He could'nt catch rabbits, crap at it, and not too clever behind a hare, he was very useful on bigger stuff however, and a very game dog.

imho the bull cross is just another fashion, lurchers dont need pitbull in them. Still collies for me.

Just my opinion. cheers.

 

Yeah I know what you mean but this usually caused by dogs running to many rabbits that get through the fence and the dog gets it into it's head they all will do that and starts to pull up. My mates collie x will sometimes stalk them and it's funny to watch him walking behind the dog kicking it on the ass to get it to move. Other times the dog will run straight down the beam and bang them before they know what's hit them if it's out in the middle of the field then there's no hesitation.

 

Obviously dosen't bother your mate to much, iv'e had them myself mate, does my f.....g head in. Its a natural thing for collie/x dog to do. A collie also stalks or creeps up on its flock in the same way, its in them all!!

I was out the other night with a 3/4 coll/grey which was trying to round up rabbits, the other dog was picking them up easy. But then the same dog would run through a hedge backwards to catch a near on impossible deer!! Why?

 

 

Nah it didn't bother me at all just learned to work round it.....It usually happend on a golf course I lamped were the rabbits are under the fence quickly after being turned. No problem in open fields or with other quarry just bunnies and I can live with that...the funny thing is that if it's that rabbit proof fencing there's no prob at all. It's not exclusive to collie x's either my mates big saluki x used to do it as well.

Edited April 13, 2009 by undisputed