Guest ozzy Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 bellman and flint locator would be the thing for terrier as they do in uk two days holidays at open coursen for lurcher people in ireland both wouldnt cost as much as gundogs etc plus u will get twice as many showing dogs get well know gudges in the working dog world ie iv travel to welsh game fair for 15 years would love to see somthing simular in ireland it can be done thousands of irish people go to show in uk every year why because we dont get same respect in terrier and lurcher world at the big shows in ireland yours in sport ozzy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomW42 0 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 bellman and flint locator would be the thing for terrier as they do in uk two days holidays at open coursen for lurcher people in ireland both wouldnt cost as much as gundogs etc plus u will get twice as many showing dogs get well know gudges in the working dog world ie iv travel to welsh game fair for 15 years would love to see somthing simular in ireland it can be done thousands of irish people go to show in uk every year why because we dont get same respect in terrier and lurcher world at the big shows in ireland yours in sport ozzy Ozzy, I passed you post and others on to Albert Tittering the Director of the Shanes Castle and Birr Castle - not a terrier & lurcher guy but a doggy man since a boy and someone who has always supported terriers & lurchers. His response: Tom, Re : Your mail Thank you for passing on some of the messages from the Hunting Life site - I wish I had the time you guys have to spend on these sites. Interesting comments- although I tend to agree with the guy who implied you all had too much time on your hands! I have always tried to be fair in my comments on Moira in the magazine and have congratulated Derek & Bill when I felt it was deserved. They do a good job in creating atmosphere in what is a public park - in fact I looked at it several years ago as a site and ruled it our because I felt it lacked atmosphere. However I looked at it in the winter when there was no tree cover and in the Summer it actually looks quite well BUT I think there is no substitute for holding a Game Fair in a proper estate or demesne BUT again in old estates the ground tends to be boggy whereas Moira's main site is playing fields with good drainage. But their car parks unless they have been improved are not so good. Shanes has the best of both worlds. We took two days of heavy rain last year but perfect underfoot conditions on the main site and no one having to be pulled out. As one guy said the public can choose where they want to go and can have their own opinions no matter how misguided! One thing we have never done in 31 years is put out propaganda or spin - if we say something is going to be there we move heaven and earth to get it there AND OUR prizes are the best in Ireland for Gundogs, Shooting, Angling AND Terriers & Lurchers. I take the point Ozzy made about the Terrier & Lurcher prizes not being as good as OUR Gundog prizes but as I have explained to Seamus and you. I get part sponsorship for all the other sports except Terrier & Lurchers . For nearly all the Terrier & Lurcher prizes we have to put our hands in our pockets AND if we bring UK judges pay for them too. Although not a terrier or lurcher man myself , although my family have kept borders and lakelands, I have always sought to promote ALL countrysports in the magazine and at the Fairs and that is why I allow Seamus to "persuade me" to let the Terrier & Lurcher guys have arena displays and have the showrings and racing as a fairly central part of the show. AND this year the Terriers and Lurchers will be televised as part of our show on the www.countrychannel.tv bringing Irish terriers and lurchers to an audience of several million world wide. Over the 21 years of the All Ireland ( conceived by Matt , Seamus and myself in a bar at Slane when we were down running the Fair at Slane) I have arguably put more money into terrier & lurcher shows than anyone in Ireland. We started the All Ireland because Seamus had made the point then and makes it every year that the Terrier & Lurcher men are the "poor relations." Seamus is a fearless and effective advocate for Terriers & Lurchers and I think he is still the best killer of foxes in Ireland. I know as I have seen him in action there is life in the old dog yet although carrying a bit of age and condition! Over the years I have genuinely tried to rectify this disparity in prizes and status to the tune of possibly several thousand from my own pocket. Yes OUR terrier & Lurcher prizes are smaller than OUR prizes for the other sports BUT are still much larger than at any other Fair AND this year I have managed to involve Barbour as a sponsor. I will make a challenge to Ozzy - show me a good return on our investment for Shanes bearing in mind I have personally put up c £1,000 to run the show at Shanes plus I have given you guys entry on two days for the price of one - and I will look at putting up the prize you have indicated you would like for Birr. I'd better stop now - writing answers to Forum points is addictive but I have real work to do and a show to run! But I am happy to hear from any one in the terrier or lurcher world who wants to put a point of view to me either by ‘phone, email or personally at the show at Shanes. Albert Titterington Quote Link to post Share on other sites
true countryman 0 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 bellman and flint locator would be the thing for terrier as they do in uk two days holidays at open coursen for lurcher people in ireland both wouldnt cost as much as gundogs etc plus u will get twice as many showing dogs get well know gudges in the working dog world ie iv travel to welsh game fair for 15 years would love to see somthing simular in ireland it can be done thousands of irish people go to show in uk every year why because we dont get same respect in terrier and lurcher world at the big shows in ireland yours in sport ozzy Ozzy, I passed you post and others on to Albert Tittering the Director of the Shanes Castle and Birr Castle - not a terrier & lurcher guy but a doggy man since a boy and someone who has always supported terriers & lurchers. His response: Tom, Re : Your mail Thank you for passing on some of the messages from the Hunting Life site - I wish I had the time you guys have to spend on these sites. Interesting comments- although I tend to agree with the guy who implied you all had too much time on your hands! I have always tried to be fair in my comments on Moira in the magazine and have congratulated Derek & Bill when I felt it was deserved. They do a good job in creating atmosphere in what is a public park - in fact I looked at it several years ago as a site and ruled it our because I felt it lacked atmosphere. However I looked at it in the winter when there was no tree cover and in the Summer it actually looks quite well BUT I think there is no substitute for holding a Game Fair in a proper estate or demesne BUT again in old estates the ground tends to be boggy whereas Moira's main site is playing fields with good drainage. But their car parks unless they have been improved are not so good. Shanes has the best of both worlds. We took two days of heavy rain last year but perfect underfoot conditions on the main site and no one having to be pulled out. As one guy said the public can choose where they want to go and can have their own opinions no matter how misguided! One thing we have never done in 31 years is put out propaganda or spin - if we say something is going to be there we move heaven and earth to get it there AND OUR prizes are the best in Ireland for Gundogs, Shooting, Angling AND Terriers & Lurchers. I take the point Ozzy made about the Terrier & Lurcher prizes not being as good as OUR Gundog prizes but as I have explained to Seamus and you. I get part sponsorship for all the other sports except Terrier & Lurchers . For nearly all the Terrier & Lurcher prizes we have to put our hands in our pockets AND if we bring UK judges pay for them too. Although not a terrier or lurcher man myself , although my family have kept borders and lakelands, I have always sought to promote ALL countrysports in the magazine and at the Fairs and that is why I allow Seamus to "persuade me" to let the Terrier & Lurcher guys have arena displays and have the showrings and racing as a fairly central part of the show. AND this year the Terriers and Lurchers will be televised as part of our show on the www.countrychannel.tv bringing Irish terriers and lurchers to an audience of several million world wide. Over the 21 years of the All Ireland ( conceived by Matt , Seamus and myself in a bar at Slane when we were down running the Fair at Slane) I have arguably put more money into terrier & lurcher shows than anyone in Ireland. We started the All Ireland because Seamus had made the point then and makes it every year that the Terrier & Lurcher men are the "poor relations." Seamus is a fearless and effective advocate for Terriers & Lurchers and I think he is still the best killer of foxes in Ireland. I know as I have seen him in action there is life in the old dog yet although carrying a bit of age and condition! Over the years I have genuinely tried to rectify this disparity in prizes and status to the tune of possibly several thousand from my own pocket. Yes OUR terrier & Lurcher prizes are smaller than OUR prizes for the other sports BUT are still much larger than at any other Fair AND this year I have managed to involve Barbour as a sponsor. I will make a challenge to Ozzy - show me a good return on our investment for Shanes bearing in mind I have personally put up c £1,000 to run the show at Shanes plus I have given you guys entry on two days for the price of one - and I will look at putting up the prize you have indicated you would like for Birr. I'd better stop now - writing answers to Forum points is addictive but I have real work to do and a show to run! But I am happy to hear from any one in the terrier or lurcher world who wants to put a point of view to me either by ‘phone, email or personally at the show at Shanes. Albert Titterington Ozzy, you like I, and perhaps the rest of us on the forum, may be just misguided members of the public when it comes to choosing which game fairs to attend, but when it comes to saving our sport into the next generation, well maybe those who boast the most may just run out of steam the quickest. Roll on the Moira Game Fair anyway this weekend as I for one want to see the show remain successful for the sake of our sports in this country. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ozzy Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 a lot of good hound packs plus lurcher men would disagree with u on the foxkiller if u email bellman flint just remind them of all us irishmen and women who are going to buy or bought there product their still promoting their system so ask for sponsorship try clonmel greyhound track for lurcher sponsorship for two days at courseing samus could get his good friend gary middleton over a top terrierman in his day plus would know the show ring yours ozzy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlbertJ 569 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 bellman and flint locator would be the thing for terrier as they do in uk two days holidays at open coursen for lurcher people in ireland both wouldnt cost as much as gundogs etc plus u will get twice as many showing dogs get well know gudges in the working dog world ie iv travel to welsh game fair for 15 years would love to see somthing simular in ireland it can be done thousands of irish people go to show in uk every year why because we dont get same respect in terrier and lurcher world at the big shows in ireland yours in sport ozzy Ozzy, I passed you post and others on to Albert Tittering the Director of the Shanes Castle and Birr Castle - not a terrier & lurcher guy but a doggy man since a boy and someone who has always supported terriers & lurchers. His response: Tom, Re : Your mail Thank you for passing on some of the messages from the Hunting Life site - I wish I had the time you guys have to spend on these sites. Interesting comments- although I tend to agree with the guy who implied you all had too much time on your hands! I have always tried to be fair in my comments on Moira in the magazine and have congratulated Derek & Bill when I felt it was deserved. They do a good job in creating atmosphere in what is a public park - in fact I looked at it several years ago as a site and ruled it our because I felt it lacked atmosphere. However I looked at it in the winter when there was no tree cover and in the Summer it actually looks quite well BUT I think there is no substitute for holding a Game Fair in a proper estate or demesne BUT again in old estates the ground tends to be boggy whereas Moira's main site is playing fields with good drainage. But their car parks unless they have been improved are not so good. Shanes has the best of both worlds. We took two days of heavy rain last year but perfect underfoot conditions on the main site and no one having to be pulled out. As one guy said the public can choose where they want to go and can have their own opinions no matter how misguided! One thing we have never done in 31 years is put out propaganda or spin - if we say something is going to be there we move heaven and earth to get it there AND OUR prizes are the best in Ireland for Gundogs, Shooting, Angling AND Terriers & Lurchers. I take the point Ozzy made about the Terrier & Lurcher prizes not being as good as OUR Gundog prizes but as I have explained to Seamus and you. I get part sponsorship for all the other sports except Terrier & Lurchers . For nearly all the Terrier & Lurcher prizes we have to put our hands in our pockets AND if we bring UK judges pay for them too. Although not a terrier or lurcher man myself , although my family have kept borders and lakelands, I have always sought to promote ALL countrysports in the magazine and at the Fairs and that is why I allow Seamus to "persuade me" to let the Terrier & Lurcher guys have arena displays and have the showrings and racing as a fairly central part of the show. AND this year the Terriers and Lurchers will be televised as part of our show on the www.countrychannel.tv bringing Irish terriers and lurchers to an audience of several million world wide. Over the 21 years of the All Ireland ( conceived by Matt , Seamus and myself in a bar at Slane when we were down running the Fair at Slane) I have arguably put more money into terrier & lurcher shows than anyone in Ireland. We started the All Ireland because Seamus had made the point then and makes it every year that the Terrier & Lurcher men are the "poor relations." Seamus is a fearless and effective advocate for Terriers & Lurchers and I think he is still the best killer of foxes in Ireland. I know as I have seen him in action there is life in the old dog yet although carrying a bit of age and condition! Over the years I have genuinely tried to rectify this disparity in prizes and status to the tune of possibly several thousand from my own pocket. Yes OUR terrier & Lurcher prizes are smaller than OUR prizes for the other sports BUT are still much larger than at any other Fair AND this year I have managed to involve Barbour as a sponsor. I will make a challenge to Ozzy - show me a good return on our investment for Shanes bearing in mind I have personally put up c £1,000 to run the show at Shanes plus I have given you guys entry on two days for the price of one - and I will look at putting up the prize you have indicated you would like for Birr. I'd better stop now - writing answers to Forum points is addictive but I have real work to do and a show to run! But I am happy to hear from any one in the terrier or lurcher world who wants to put a point of view to me either by ‘phone, email or personally at the show at Shanes. Albert Titterington Ozzy, you like I, and perhaps the rest of us on the forum, may be just misguided members of the public when it comes to choosing which game fairs to attend, but when it comes to saving our sport into the next generation, well maybe those who boast the most may just run out of steam the quickest. Roll on the Moira Game Fair anyway this weekend as I for one want to see the show remain successful for the sake of our sports in this country. True Countryman, I apologise if anything Tom or me, through him, said that offended you. I don't have time for forums but I suppose it could be instructive to hear the various viewpoints. While I appreciate Tom' loyalty I like to speak for myself. I am sorry I made the jibe about misguided I made it because from the comments passed on to me by Tom it was obvious one of the people on the forum was an organiser from Moira - my jibe was directed at him not at any member of the Terrier & lurcher fraternity who chooses to think Moira is the best country fair. We survey everyone who comes to our shows and the level of satisfaction is high so we know that we please the large numbers of people who attend in good weather or bad and with the possible exception of last year ( two days of heavy rain) we know our attendance at Shanes and Birr are the two largest attendances. We also know that marketing and tourism professionals opinons of the two fairs was made clear when they were judged OBJECTIVELY when we went head to head for a tourism award www.irishgamefair.com/award.asp. What was significant was that we didn't know who was going to win as there were three organisations short listed. We thought it was a great result for country sports WHICHEVER fair won and took two tables at the event as we thought it a great opportunity to promote country sports to a wider and important audience and the sort of people who sponsor events such as gundogs, clay shooters and possibly terrier & lurchers! As you can see from the report www.irishgamefair.com/award.asp done quite independently by Emma Cowan, the Editor of the Hospitality Review, the team from Moira didn't have the confidence to show up! So from our point of view our public appear happy with our shows, as does the tourism industry and as we appear to get the largest number of sponsors, the trade appear to be happy. What we do not always get are the comments of the people who do not go and that is why I felt it might be useful to find out why some of you don't go to Shanes or think Moira is better. I am always willing to listen to facts and constructive criticism and hopefully address the latter. To go back to one point Tom sent me, from I suspect a Moira organiser, i.e something about Moira having 5 x the gun stands Shanes have. By my reckoning that would have to be 30 or 35 as we will have 6 (or if the other guy confirms) 7 standholders displaying guns this year AND we have always had more guns displayed than Moira. Talking about giving away free stands: I brought a very nicely presented stand of English gundealers to Shanes a few years ago - I did let the ground space free but charged them full price for the tent, red carpet etc. £,1500. Next year Moira offered the same gundealer free space and free tent! Personally, as I have said, I think Moira is OK but I don't think it matches all the organisers claims and cetainly the one they have made in the past about it being a "World Class" Game Fair. I have organised more Game Fairs than anyone in Ireland and I would be the first to admit that no Game Fair in Ireland has or would ever make the top 12 in the UK nvermind the world! Having fulfilled my ambition of producing a magazine Irish Countrysports and Country Life that is widely recognised as being the equivalent of any UK or international magazine, I wanted to try to produce Irish Game Fairs that would be the equivalents of the top UK Fairs. That is why we formed the Great Game Fairs of Ireland brand. The first step was to get competitions and prize money of an international standard. We have achieved that last year and this. This is no boast it is fact. The next step was to both advertise outside Ireland and to promote the concept worldwide we have started this by having both fairs televised on the www.countrychannel.tv. Again a fact not a boast. The third objective was to get two good Fisherman's and Gunmakers Rows this year plus fill in round them with new and interesting stands - we are not quite there but are moving towards that. 2010 should see that substantially achieved as we have the European Marketing directors of a couple of brands coming to each show. Fourth objective: to get an action packed arena reflecting ALL the countrysports including terrier & lurcher racing. We think we are moving towards fine tuning this. I am sorry you think I was boasting in the piece I gave Tom to post.It was written quickly as I wanted to put the facts as I saw them across. I hope you don't think I'm boasting in this either- these are honest objectives which I would love to see for the effective promotion of countrysports in Ireland. And a final objective: Not only to have the best Terrier & Lurcher prizes in Ireland ( as indeed they are and better than quite a few UK shows) but to get them up to the level of our other events. Ideas for sponsors very gratefully accepted! I am going to be busy over the next five weeks so my apologies if I don't get involved in much chat but as I said please feel free to send me ideas and constructive criticism on how I can help promote Terriers & Lurchers in Ireland and outside it. Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlbertJ 569 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 a lot of good hound packs plus lurcher men would disagree with u on the foxkiller if u email bellman flint just remind them of all us irishmen and women who are going to buy or bought there product their still promoting their system so ask for sponsorship try clonmel greyhound track for lurcher sponsorship for two days at courseing samus could get his good friend gary middleton over a top terrierman in his day plus would know the show ring yours ozzy Ozzy, Thanks for your constructive points. 1. I think if one totted up the number of foxes Seamus has killed few in Ireland could compare with him. Although, like myself, carrying a bit of age and condition, he has eased back a bit, he still in my opinion and as farmers round our small shoot and many other famous glens foxers would attest the finest fox killer in the country. It was no later than Tuesday when I was at Shanes Castle that the shephered there was singing his praises about his effectiveness and as I have said I have seen him in action myself. Seamus and I have had our moments but I fully respect his knowledge of the countryside and his skill with dog, rod and shotgun although I think I could edge him with the rifle! 2. We have brought Gary Middleton over twice including two years ago and the judges this year are well respected guys like Gary. I hope to bring Gary over again before I retire from Game Fairs! 3. I have already emailed B&F and will talk to any other company you can suggest who should or could put money back into Terrier & Lurcher prize funds. Tell me more on what you suggest for Clonmel. That sounds achievable as I know the people there. Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlbertJ 569 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 a lot of good hound packs plus lurcher men would disagree with u on the foxkiller if u email bellman flint just remind them of all us irishmen and women who are going to buy or bought there product their still promoting their system so ask for sponsorship try clonmel greyhound track for lurcher sponsorship for two days at courseing samus could get his good friend gary middleton over a top terrierman in his day plus would know the show ring yours ozzy Ozzy, Thanks for your constructive points. 1. I think if one totted up the number of foxes Seamus has killed few in Ireland could compare with him. Although, like myself, carrying a bit of age and condition, he has eased back a bit, he still in my opinion and as farmers round our small shoot and many other famous glens foxers would attest the finest fox killer in the country. It was no later than Tuesday when I was at Shanes Castle that the shephered there was singing his praises about his effectiveness and as I have said I have seen him in action myself. Seamus and I have had our moments but I fully respect his knowledge of the countryside and his skill with dog, rod and shotgun although I think I could edge him with the rifle! 2. We have brought Gary Middleton over twice including two years ago and the judges this year are well respected guys like Gary. I hope to bring Gary over again before I retire from Game Fairs! 3. I have already emailed B&F and will talk to any other company you can suggest who should or could put money back into Terrier & Lurcher prize funds. Tell me more on what you suggest for Clonmel. That sounds achievable as I know the people there. Albert Ozzy, I took your suggestion re : Bellman Flint - and offered to buy the locator as first prize for Birr including offering them publicity in the magazine : they offered a 10% discount! I told them that in this case the Terrier & Lurcher guys would prefer the cash. I then made them a "one off" offer to come and try the market in Ireland i.e. if they sponsored the Locator for Birr I would give them a plot at both Fairs free or a package of one show and advertising. They thanked me for my offer but have advised me that it is not financially viable for them to do shows over the water. This rather proves my point about the difficulty of getting terrier & lurcher sponsorship when a company such as this won't do it - even in return for a very good package. A gun, tackle or gundog stand would have jumped at this deal! Any other ideas for retailers of locators? Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ozzy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 a lot of good hound packs plus lurcher men would disagree with u on the foxkiller if u email bellman flint just remind them of all us irishmen and women who are going to buy or bought there product their still promoting their system so ask for sponsorship try clonmel greyhound track for lurcher sponsorship for two days at courseing samus could get his good friend gary middleton over a top terrierman in his day plus would know the show ring yours ozzy Ozzy, Thanks for your constructive points. 1. I think if one totted up the number of foxes Seamus has killed few in Ireland could compare with him. Although, like myself, carrying a bit of age and condition, he has eased back a bit, he still in my opinion and as farmers round our small shoot and many other famous glens foxers would attest the finest fox killer in the country. It was no later than Tuesday when I was at Shanes Castle that the shephered there was singing his praises about his effectiveness and as I have said I have seen him in action myself. Seamus and I have had our moments but I fully respect his knowledge of the countryside and his skill with dog, rod and shotgun although I think I could edge him with the rifle! 2. We have brought Gary Middleton over twice including two years ago and the judges this year are well respected guys like Gary. I hope to bring Gary over again before I retire from Game Fairs! 3. I have already emailed B&F and will talk to any other company you can suggest who should or could put money back into Terrier & Lurcher prize funds. Tell me more on what you suggest for Clonmel. That sounds achievable as I know the people there. Albert Ozzy, I took your suggestion re : Bellman Flint - and offered to buy the locator as first prize for Birr including offering them publicity in the magazine : they offered a 10% discount! I told them that in this case the Terrier & Lurcher guys would prefer the cash. I then made them a "one off" offer to come and try the market in Ireland i.e. if they sponsored the Locator for Birr I would give them a plot at both Fairs free or a package of one show and advertising. They thanked me for my offer but have advised me that it is not financially viable for them to do shows over the water. This rather proves my point about the difficulty of getting terrier & lurcher sponsorship when a company such as this won't do it - even in return for a very good package. A gun, tackle or gundog stand would have jumped at this deal! Any other ideas for retailers of locators? Albert thanks for trying dont think gary ever judge in birr ozzy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
true countryman 0 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 bellman and flint locator would be the thing for terrier as they do in uk two days holidays at open coursen for lurcher people in ireland both wouldnt cost as much as gundogs etc plus u will get twice as many showing dogs get well know gudges in the working dog world ie iv travel to welsh game fair for 15 years would love to see somthing simular in ireland it can be done thousands of irish people go to show in uk every year why because we dont get same respect in terrier and lurcher world at the big shows in ireland yours in sport ozzy Ozzy, I passed you post and others on to Albert Tittering the Director of the Shanes Castle and Birr Castle - not a terrier & lurcher guy but a doggy man since a boy and someone who has always supported terriers & lurchers. His response: Tom, Re : Your mail Thank you for passing on some of the messages from the Hunting Life site - I wish I had the time you guys have to spend on these sites. Interesting comments- although I tend to agree with the guy who implied you all had too much time on your hands! I have always tried to be fair in my comments on Moira in the magazine and have congratulated Derek & Bill when I felt it was deserved. They do a good job in creating atmosphere in what is a public park - in fact I looked at it several years ago as a site and ruled it our because I felt it lacked atmosphere. However I looked at it in the winter when there was no tree cover and in the Summer it actually looks quite well BUT I think there is no substitute for holding a Game Fair in a proper estate or demesne BUT again in old estates the ground tends to be boggy whereas Moira's main site is playing fields with good drainage. But their car parks unless they have been improved are not so good. Shanes has the best of both worlds. We took two days of heavy rain last year but perfect underfoot conditions on the main site and no one having to be pulled out. As one guy said the public can choose where they want to go and can have their own opinions no matter how misguided! One thing we have never done in 31 years is put out propaganda or spin - if we say something is going to be there we move heaven and earth to get it there AND OUR prizes are the best in Ireland for Gundogs, Shooting, Angling AND Terriers & Lurchers. I take the point Ozzy made about the Terrier & Lurcher prizes not being as good as OUR Gundog prizes but as I have explained to Seamus and you. I get part sponsorship for all the other sports except Terrier & Lurchers . For nearly all the Terrier & Lurcher prizes we have to put our hands in our pockets AND if we bring UK judges pay for them too. Although not a terrier or lurcher man myself , although my family have kept borders and lakelands, I have always sought to promote ALL countrysports in the magazine and at the Fairs and that is why I allow Seamus to "persuade me" to let the Terrier & Lurcher guys have arena displays and have the showrings and racing as a fairly central part of the show. AND this year the Terriers and Lurchers will be televised as part of our show on the www.countrychannel.tv bringing Irish terriers and lurchers to an audience of several million world wide. Over the 21 years of the All Ireland ( conceived by Matt , Seamus and myself in a bar at Slane when we were down running the Fair at Slane) I have arguably put more money into terrier & lurcher shows than anyone in Ireland. We started the All Ireland because Seamus had made the point then and makes it every year that the Terrier & Lurcher men are the "poor relations." Seamus is a fearless and effective advocate for Terriers & Lurchers and I think he is still the best killer of foxes in Ireland. I know as I have seen him in action there is life in the old dog yet although carrying a bit of age and condition! Over the years I have genuinely tried to rectify this disparity in prizes and status to the tune of possibly several thousand from my own pocket. Yes OUR terrier & Lurcher prizes are smaller than OUR prizes for the other sports BUT are still much larger than at any other Fair AND this year I have managed to involve Barbour as a sponsor. I will make a challenge to Ozzy - show me a good return on our investment for Shanes bearing in mind I have personally put up c £1,000 to run the show at Shanes plus I have given you guys entry on two days for the price of one - and I will look at putting up the prize you have indicated you would like for Birr. I'd better stop now - writing answers to Forum points is addictive but I have real work to do and a show to run! But I am happy to hear from any one in the terrier or lurcher world who wants to put a point of view to me either by ‘phone, email or personally at the show at Shanes. Albert Titterington Ozzy, you like I, and perhaps the rest of us on the forum, may be just misguided members of the public when it comes to choosing which game fairs to attend, but when it comes to saving our sport into the next generation, well maybe those who boast the most may just run out of steam the quickest. Roll on the Moira Game Fair anyway this weekend as I for one want to see the show remain successful for the sake of our sports in this country. True Countryman, I apologise if anything Tom or me, through him, said that offended you. I don't have time for forums but I suppose it could be instructive to hear the various viewpoints. While I appreciate Tom' loyalty I like to speak for myself. I am sorry I made the jibe about misguided I made it because from the comments passed on to me by Tom it was obvious one of the people on the forum was an organiser from Moira - my jibe was directed at him not at any member of the Terrier & lurcher fraternity who chooses to think Moira is the best country fair. We survey everyone who comes to our shows and the level of satisfaction is high so we know that we please the large numbers of people who attend in good weather or bad and with the possible exception of last year ( two days of heavy rain) we know our attendance at Shanes and Birr are the two largest attendances. We also know that marketing and tourism professionals opinons of the two fairs was made clear when they were judged OBJECTIVELY when we went head to head for a tourism award www.irishgamefair.com/award.asp. What was significant was that we didn't know who was going to win as there were three organisations short listed. We thought it was a great result for country sports WHICHEVER fair won and took two tables at the event as we thought it a great opportunity to promote country sports to a wider and important audience and the sort of people who sponsor events such as gundogs, clay shooters and possibly terrier & lurchers! As you can see from the report www.irishgamefair.com/award.asp done quite independently by Emma Cowan, the Editor of the Hospitality Review, the team from Moira didn't have the confidence to show up! So from our point of view our public appear happy with our shows, as does the tourism industry and as we appear to get the largest number of sponsors, the trade appear to be happy. What we do not always get are the comments of the people who do not go and that is why I felt it might be useful to find out why some of you don't go to Shanes or think Moira is better. I am always willing to listen to facts and constructive criticism and hopefully address the latter. To go back to one point Tom sent me, from I suspect a Moira organiser, i.e something about Moira having 5 x the gun stands Shanes have. By my reckoning that would have to be 30 or 35 as we will have 6 (or if the other guy confirms) 7 standholders displaying guns this year AND we have always had more guns displayed than Moira. Talking about giving away free stands: I brought a very nicely presented stand of English gundealers to Shanes a few years ago - I did let the ground space free but charged them full price for the tent, red carpet etc. £,1500. Next year Moira offered the same gundealer free space and free tent! Personally, as I have said, I think Moira is OK but I don't think it matches all the organisers claims and cetainly the one they have made in the past about it being a "World Class" Game Fair. I have organised more Game Fairs than anyone in Ireland and I would be the first to admit that no Game Fair in Ireland has or would ever make the top 12 in the UK nvermind the world! Having fulfilled my ambition of producing a magazine Irish Countrysports and Country Life that is widely recognised as being the equivalent of any UK or international magazine, I wanted to try to produce Irish Game Fairs that would be the equivalents of the top UK Fairs. That is why we formed the Great Game Fairs of Ireland brand. The first step was to get competitions and prize money of an international standard. We have achieved that last year and this. This is no boast it is fact. The next step was to both advertise outside Ireland and to promote the concept worldwide we have started this by having both fairs televised on the www.countrychannel.tv. Again a fact not a boast. The third objective was to get two good Fisherman's and Gunmakers Rows this year plus fill in round them with new and interesting stands - we are not quite there but are moving towards that. 2010 should see that substantially achieved as we have the European Marketing directors of a couple of brands coming to each show. Fourth objective: to get an action packed arena reflecting ALL the countrysports including terrier & lurcher racing. We think we are moving towards fine tuning this. I am sorry you think I was boasting in the piece I gave Tom to post.It was written quickly as I wanted to put the facts as I saw them across. I hope you don't think I'm boasting in this either- these are honest objectives which I would love to see for the effective promotion of countrysports in Ireland. And a final objective: Not only to have the best Terrier & Lurcher prizes in Ireland ( as indeed they are and better than quite a few UK shows) but to get them up to the level of our other events. Ideas for sponsors very gratefully accepted! I am going to be busy over the next five weeks so my apologies if I don't get involved in much chat but as I said please feel free to send me ideas and constructive criticism on how I can help promote Terriers & Lurchers in Ireland and outside it. Albert Apology accepted! Can't see what benefit there is in having a 'jibe' at any of the organisers of the Moira show. At the end of the day the Moira Fair does a fantastic job at promoting all things country, not just Lurchers and Terriers. Hardly the place for personal 'jibes.' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlbertJ 569 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 bellman and flint locator would be the thing for terrier as they do in uk two days holidays at open coursen for lurcher people in ireland both wouldnt cost as much as gundogs etc plus u will get twice as many showing dogs get well know gudges in the working dog world ie iv travel to welsh game fair for 15 years would love to see somthing simular in ireland it can be done thousands of irish people go to show in uk every year why because we dont get same respect in terrier and lurcher world at the big shows in ireland yours in sport ozzy Ozzy, I passed you post and others on to Albert Tittering the Director of the Shanes Castle and Birr Castle - not a terrier & lurcher guy but a doggy man since a boy and someone who has always supported terriers & lurchers. His response: Tom, Re : Your mail Thank you for passing on some of the messages from the Hunting Life site - I wish I had the time you guys have to spend on these sites. Interesting comments- although I tend to agree with the guy who implied you all had too much time on your hands! I have always tried to be fair in my comments on Moira in the magazine and have congratulated Derek & Bill when I felt it was deserved. They do a good job in creating atmosphere in what is a public park - in fact I looked at it several years ago as a site and ruled it our because I felt it lacked atmosphere. However I looked at it in the winter when there was no tree cover and in the Summer it actually looks quite well BUT I think there is no substitute for holding a Game Fair in a proper estate or demesne BUT again in old estates the ground tends to be boggy whereas Moira's main site is playing fields with good drainage. But their car parks unless they have been improved are not so good. Shanes has the best of both worlds. We took two days of heavy rain last year but perfect underfoot conditions on the main site and no one having to be pulled out. As one guy said the public can choose where they want to go and can have their own opinions no matter how misguided! One thing we have never done in 31 years is put out propaganda or spin - if we say something is going to be there we move heaven and earth to get it there AND OUR prizes are the best in Ireland for Gundogs, Shooting, Angling AND Terriers & Lurchers. I take the point Ozzy made about the Terrier & Lurcher prizes not being as good as OUR Gundog prizes but as I have explained to Seamus and you. I get part sponsorship for all the other sports except Terrier & Lurchers . For nearly all the Terrier & Lurcher prizes we have to put our hands in our pockets AND if we bring UK judges pay for them too. Although not a terrier or lurcher man myself , although my family have kept borders and lakelands, I have always sought to promote ALL countrysports in the magazine and at the Fairs and that is why I allow Seamus to "persuade me" to let the Terrier & Lurcher guys have arena displays and have the showrings and racing as a fairly central part of the show. AND this year the Terriers and Lurchers will be televised as part of our show on the www.countrychannel.tv bringing Irish terriers and lurchers to an audience of several million world wide. Over the 21 years of the All Ireland ( conceived by Matt , Seamus and myself in a bar at Slane when we were down running the Fair at Slane) I have arguably put more money into terrier & lurcher shows than anyone in Ireland. We started the All Ireland because Seamus had made the point then and makes it every year that the Terrier & Lurcher men are the "poor relations." Seamus is a fearless and effective advocate for Terriers & Lurchers and I think he is still the best killer of foxes in Ireland. I know as I have seen him in action there is life in the old dog yet although carrying a bit of age and condition! Over the years I have genuinely tried to rectify this disparity in prizes and status to the tune of possibly several thousand from my own pocket. Yes OUR terrier & Lurcher prizes are smaller than OUR prizes for the other sports BUT are still much larger than at any other Fair AND this year I have managed to involve Barbour as a sponsor. I will make a challenge to Ozzy - show me a good return on our investment for Shanes bearing in mind I have personally put up c £1,000 to run the show at Shanes plus I have given you guys entry on two days for the price of one - and I will look at putting up the prize you have indicated you would like for Birr. I'd better stop now - writing answers to Forum points is addictive but I have real work to do and a show to run! But I am happy to hear from any one in the terrier or lurcher world who wants to put a point of view to me either by ‘phone, email or personally at the show at Shanes. Albert Titterington Ozzy, you like I, and perhaps the rest of us on the forum, may be just misguided members of the public when it comes to choosing which game fairs to attend, but when it comes to saving our sport into the next generation, well maybe those who boast the most may just run out of steam the quickest. Roll on the Moira Game Fair anyway this weekend as I for one want to see the show remain successful for the sake of our sports in this country. True Countryman, I apologise if anything Tom or me, through him, said that offended you. I don't have time for forums but I suppose it could be instructive to hear the various viewpoints. While I appreciate Tom' loyalty I like to speak for myself. I am sorry I made the jibe about misguided I made it because from the comments passed on to me by Tom it was obvious one of the people on the forum was an organiser from Moira - my jibe was directed at him not at any member of the Terrier & lurcher fraternity who chooses to think Moira is the best country fair. We survey everyone who comes to our shows and the level of satisfaction is high so we know that we please the large numbers of people who attend in good weather or bad and with the possible exception of last year ( two days of heavy rain) we know our attendance at Shanes and Birr are the two largest attendances. We also know that marketing and tourism professionals opinons of the two fairs was made clear when they were judged OBJECTIVELY when we went head to head for a tourism award www.irishgamefair.com/award.asp. What was significant was that we didn't know who was going to win as there were three organisations short listed. We thought it was a great result for country sports WHICHEVER fair won and took two tables at the event as we thought it a great opportunity to promote country sports to a wider and important audience and the sort of people who sponsor events such as gundogs, clay shooters and possibly terrier & lurchers! As you can see from the report www.irishgamefair.com/award.asp done quite independently by Emma Cowan, the Editor of the Hospitality Review, the team from Moira didn't have the confidence to show up! So from our point of view our public appear happy with our shows, as does the tourism industry and as we appear to get the largest number of sponsors, the trade appear to be happy. What we do not always get are the comments of the people who do not go and that is why I felt it might be useful to find out why some of you don't go to Shanes or think Moira is better. I am always willing to listen to facts and constructive criticism and hopefully address the latter. To go back to one point Tom sent me, from I suspect a Moira organiser, i.e something about Moira having 5 x the gun stands Shanes have. By my reckoning that would have to be 30 or 35 as we will have 6 (or if the other guy confirms) 7 standholders displaying guns this year AND we have always had more guns displayed than Moira. Talking about giving away free stands: I brought a very nicely presented stand of English gundealers to Shanes a few years ago - I did let the ground space free but charged them full price for the tent, red carpet etc. £,1500. Next year Moira offered the same gundealer free space and free tent! Personally, as I have said, I think Moira is OK but I don't think it matches all the organisers claims and cetainly the one they have made in the past about it being a "World Class" Game Fair. I have organised more Game Fairs than anyone in Ireland and I would be the first to admit that no Game Fair in Ireland has or would ever make the top 12 in the UK nvermind the world! Having fulfilled my ambition of producing a magazine Irish Countrysports and Country Life that is widely recognised as being the equivalent of any UK or international magazine, I wanted to try to produce Irish Game Fairs that would be the equivalents of the top UK Fairs. That is why we formed the Great Game Fairs of Ireland brand. The first step was to get competitions and prize money of an international standard. We have achieved that last year and this. This is no boast it is fact. The next step was to both advertise outside Ireland and to promote the concept worldwide we have started this by having both fairs televised on the www.countrychannel.tv. Again a fact not a boast. The third objective was to get two good Fisherman's and Gunmakers Rows this year plus fill in round them with new and interesting stands - we are not quite there but are moving towards that. 2010 should see that substantially achieved as we have the European Marketing directors of a couple of brands coming to each show. Fourth objective: to get an action packed arena reflecting ALL the countrysports including terrier & lurcher racing. We think we are moving towards fine tuning this. I am sorry you think I was boasting in the piece I gave Tom to post.It was written quickly as I wanted to put the facts as I saw them across. I hope you don't think I'm boasting in this either- these are honest objectives which I would love to see for the effective promotion of countrysports in Ireland. And a final objective: Not only to have the best Terrier & Lurcher prizes in Ireland ( as indeed they are and better than quite a few UK shows) but to get them up to the level of our other events. Ideas for sponsors very gratefully accepted! I am going to be busy over the next five weeks so my apologies if I don't get involved in much chat but as I said please feel free to send me ideas and constructive criticism on how I can help promote Terriers & Lurchers in Ireland and outside it. Albert Apology accepted! Can't see what benefit there is in having a 'jibe' at any of the organisers of the Moira show. At the end of the day the Moira Fair does a fantastic job at promoting all things country, not just Lurchers and Terriers. Hardly the place for personal 'jibes.' The jibe was made because it appeared that someone from the Moira team was making inaccurate and derogatory allegations against both Ballywalter and Shanes. I have apologised to those who who genuinely think Moira is the "business" - I did not intend to attack them. However it would appear that you would wish to deny me the right of response to the person who appeared to have intimate knowledge of Moira and I think made the claim that Moira would have 5x the gun stands at Shanes and Shanes was only worth hakf a day. Although to some degree Tom may have stimulated this attack it was totally untrue and unwarranted. I have made no such allegations against Moira in fact my only objections to the Moira organising team is that their publicity often includes a fair bit of "spin" and exaggeration, they don't put much back into the sports in terms of prizes and they are inclined to copy virtually everything we do e.g things such as the medieval aspect. At the end of the day I hope all the Game Fairs go well because they do feed off each other and if the public don't enjoy one they are inclined to disregard all. Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tango 221 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 a lot of good hound packs plus lurcher men would disagree with u on the foxkiller if u email bellman flint just remind them of all us irishmen and women who are going to buy or bought there product their still promoting their system so ask for sponsorship try clonmel greyhound track for lurcher sponsorship for two days at courseing samus could get his good friend gary middleton over a top terrierman in his day plus would know the show ring yours ozzy Ozzy, Thanks for your constructive points. 1. I think if one totted up the number of foxes Seamus has killed few in Ireland could compare with him. Although, like myself, carrying a bit of age and condition, he has eased back a bit, he still in my opinion and as farmers round our small shoot and many other famous glens foxers would attest the finest fox killer in the country. It was no later than Tuesday when I was at Shanes Castle that the shephered there was singing his praises about his effectiveness and as I have said I have seen him in action myself. Seamus and I have had our moments but I fully respect his knowledge of the countryside and his skill with dog, rod and shotgun although I think I could edge him with the rifle! 2. We have brought Gary Middleton over twice including two years ago and the judges this year are well respected guys like Gary. I hope to bring Gary over again before I retire from Game Fairs! 3. I have already emailed B&F and will talk to any other company you can suggest who should or could put money back into Terrier & Lurcher prize funds. Tell me more on what you suggest for Clonmel. That sounds achievable as I know the people there. Albert Ozzy, I took your suggestion re : Bellman Flint - and offered to buy the locator as first prize for Birr including offering them publicity in the magazine : they offered a 10% discount! I told them that in this case the Terrier & Lurcher guys would prefer the cash. I then made them a "one off" offer to come and try the market in Ireland i.e. if they sponsored the Locator for Birr I would give them a plot at both Fairs free or a package of one show and advertising. They thanked me for my offer but have advised me that it is not financially viable for them to do shows over the water. This rather proves my point about the difficulty of getting terrier & lurcher sponsorship when a company such as this won't do it - even in return for a very good package. A gun, tackle or gundog stand would have jumped at this deal! Any other ideas for retailers of locators? Albert has anyone tryed deben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlbertJ 569 Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) Well TomW42 What can I say. Everyone cannot be wrong about Ballywalter and Shanes Castle when they say there are small, disappointing events that are useful for a half day out. Look at the Moira Facts: Over 200 stands this year (only 30 crafts by the way). More than 100 fishing and shooting related stands, plus gun fitters, gun engravers, gun re-stockers, antique guns, more gun dealers that the other shows combined (you need to get up to date with your facts) Oh, and by the way, those guys at Moira do not give away trade sites either! On the contrary they are over subscribed this year. You should also be careful about what you say, it could come back to in the form of a writ with the onus on you to prove it. I'll print this off and pass it to Bill & Derek. I am sure they will be interested in your comments. When you post here you really should get your facts correct as someone is likely take you to task and expose you as an idiot. If you really believe that propaganda about Shanes and Birr, that's dangerous fella, you need to get out more. I have been at all the Irish fairs and I know the facts. When you put down someone's event you do your sport and yourself no credit. Enjoy your weekend at Moira Demesne, truely Ireland's Biggest and Best game fair. Well, maybe until the Ballinlough Castle Fair on 18 & 19 July. After that it may simply be N.I's Biggest and Best. See you all at Moira! SM I hope the weather picks up for this Fair because two wet ones in a row is not good for the public perception of Game Fairs in general. AlbertJ Edited May 23, 2009 by AlbertJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomW42 0 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Well TomW42 What can I say. Everyone cannot be wrong about Ballywalter and Shanes Castle when they say there are small, disappointing events that are useful for a half day out. Look at the Moira Facts: Over 200 stands this year (only 30 crafts by the way). More than 100 fishing and shooting related stands, plus gun fitters, gun engravers, gun re-stockers, antique guns, more gun dealers that the other shows combined (you need to get up to date with your facts) Oh, and by the way, those guys at Moira do not give away trade sites either! On the contrary they are over subscribed this year. You should also be careful about what you say, it could come back to in the form of a writ with the onus on you to prove it. I'll print this off and pass it to Bill & Derek. I am sure they will be interested in your comments. When you post here you really should get your facts correct as someone is likely take you to task and expose you as an idiot. If you really believe that propaganda about Shanes and Birr, that's dangerous fella, you need to get out more. I have been at all the Irish fairs and I know the facts. When you put down someone's event you do your sport and yourself no credit. Enjoy your weekend at Moira Demesne, truely Ireland's Biggest and Best game fair. Well, maybe until the Ballinlough Castle Fair on 18 & 19 July. After that it may simply be N.I's Biggest and Best. See you all at Moira! SM Story Man Some facts for you : Took your advice and got out for two days. Wish I hadn't the first day! I was at Moira Saturday and Florencecourt Sunday. What a difrence a day makes! Saturday at Moira - dreadful car parks and as usual terrier & lurchers hidden away out of site. Poor crowds at the terriers & lirchers. Poor crowds overall. Sunday at Florencecourt - good car parking and the show and racing on the lawn of a stately hom. This is what a real Game Fair venue should look like. Great crowds and tereffic terriers & lurcher entries. One of the best shows overall at Florencecourt, people were still going into the house at 6.00pm. It appears these people voted with their feet preferring this small show to Moira. Are they idiots? Some claimes you made. I don't know how you count stands but I didn't see 170 country sports type stands. One whole side of the arena was taken up by a hosptality and catering tent. I wonder how many terrier guys made it into that. Claim More gundealers than the other shows combined Fact two small gundealers plus a small display of antique guns and an engraver. Ballywalter had two gun stands both much better and I hear Shanes will have 6/7 displays of guns. Where was the Medievalfest that was advertised earlier? I heard lots of people complaining about this. Who is putting out propaganda now? Having proiven that your facts are rubbish. Who is the idiot now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stuart O Connor 1 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 May 3rd Rockview Harriers, Kilkenny. May 17th Mourne Lurcher Terrier Show. Kilkeel County Down. May 23/24 BASC Game Fair Moira, Lurcher Terrier show Saturday By Gilford working terrier and Lurcher show. June 27/29 Game and Country, Shanes castle, by the Mid Antrim Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club. July 18/19 Ballinlough Irish National Country Fair, Sunday is lurcher and terrier day. July 25th Tullylish Working Terrier Club. Tullylish. County Armagh August 22/23 Birr Game and Country fair, County Offaly. UNKOWN AT THE MOMENT. ??? Dublin Working Terrier Club, Anaghmore. ??? Florencecourt. Co Fermanagh. ???? North West Working Terrier and Lurcher Club, Donemana, Co Tyrone ??????Ballymacad Foxhounds Also think the following three shows are on as well: The Kill Harriers, Waterford Sunday 24th of May Wexford Harriers Sunday June Bank Holiday weekend Mullinavat Harriers, Slieverue, Kilkenny Sunday July 26th Hope to see you all in Kilkenny in two weeks Sunday May 3rd for the Rockview Harriers Show. Is the Mullinavat Harriers, Slieverue, Kilkenny Sunday July 26th only harriers or is it lurchers and terriers also...??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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