Question that is bugging me

[Scuzy 1]

Hello everyone,

Ive been offline for a while, ive gotten into boxing for the past 9 months and the last few months have been full of training and dieting, its seen all my time spent preparing for various tornaments and now ive got a break for afew weeks im glad to be back on here and out hunting.

 

Anyway, my two jills have come into season and ive just booked them in for a jab tomorrow, but ive just had a thought on having one of my hobs vasectomised. Now, ive been searching through the forum but i cant find anithing on exactly how a vasectomised hob brings a jill out of season?

 

To me, i thought about it and it doesent make any sense? I know theres probably a simple answer but ive trawled the internet and for the time bieng i cant find anything about how this works?

If anyone could shed some light on this for me i would be very gratefull, i know dont have to worry about this for 6 months until the jill jab has worn off but its really bugging me.

 

And finally, when the jills have had their jab tomorrow and ive waited a couple of days for them to come out of season, can they still get pregnant if the hob has a go when i put them all back together?

 

Any information appreciated, Luke.

[labsnlurchers 39]

As i understand it the vasectomised hob keeps his balls and so still has the hormones etc that make him want to mate its just he cannot fertilise the gill because the tubes are severed clipped or tied or something like that. So he will mate with the gill and she will think she is pregnant 'phantom pregnancy'

But i dont think it is 100% and there is the rare occasion when a seemingly vasectomised hob actually produces kits.

More info here i think http://www.britishferretclub.co.uk/breedingferrets.htm

[Bushwacker 13]

As i understand it the vasectomised hob keeps his balls and so still has the hormones etc that make him want to mate its just he cannot fertilise the gill because the tubes are severed clipped or tied or something like that. So he will mate with the gill and she will think she is pregnant 'phantom pregnancy'

But i dont think it is 100% and there is the rare occasion when a seemingly vasectomised hob actually produces kits.

More info here i think http://www.britishferretclub.co.uk/breedingferrets.htm

 

Exactly right. We used a vasectomised hob on our jills 2 years ago & they all fell pregnant. The vet who carried out the operation offered to do it again but he said that, as in humans the severed tubes have been known to some how rejoin in rare occasions resulting in litters of young. Still have 2 of the "accidents" and they work like demons.

[The one 8,463]

As i understand it the vasectomised hob keeps his balls and so still has the hormones etc that make him want to mate its just he cannot fertilise the gill because the tubes are severed clipped or tied or something like that. So he will mate with the gill and she will think she is pregnant 'phantom pregnancy'

But i dont think it is 100% and there is the rare occasion when a seemingly vasectomised hob actually produces kits.

More info here i think http://www.britishferretclub.co.uk/breedingferrets.htm

 

:clapper: its the birds and the bees

[stubby 175]

As i understand it the vasectomised hob keeps his balls and so still has the hormones etc that make him want to mate its just he cannot fertilise the gill because the tubes are severed clipped or tied or something like that. So he will mate with the gill and she will think she is pregnant 'phantom pregnancy'

But i dont think it is 100% and there is the rare occasion when a seemingly vasectomised hob actually produces kits.

More info here i think http://www.britishferretclub.co.uk/breedingferrets.htm

 

Exactly right. We used a vasectomised hob on our jills 2 years ago & they all fell pregnant. The vet who carried out the operation offered to do it again but he said that, as in humans the severed tubes have been known to some how rejoin in rare occasions resulting in litters of young. Still have 2 of the "accidents" and they work like demons.

 

highly unlikely the tubes rejoin, more likely, the hob was put with jills to soon after the op, after being snipped, they are still holding sperm in the tubes, which can fertalise a jill, snipped hobs should be kept away from jills for a good 12 weeks or so, just the act of mating, is what brings the jill out of season, alot of "old timers" wil tell you they could get jills out of season with a cotton bud, think about it

[Crow 1]

highly unlikely the tubes rejoin, more likely, the hob was put with jills to soon after the op, after being snipped, they are still holding sperm in the tubes, which can fertalise a jill, snipped hobs should be kept away from jills for a good 12 weeks or so, just the act of mating, is what brings the jill out of season, alot of "old timers" wil tell you they could get jills out of season with a cotton bud, think about it

 

Its not 'highly unlikely' at all I'm afraid Stubby!

 

I owned a snipped hob who brought my jills out of season for the first year, but the second year I used him on 4 jills and all fell pregnant. The tubes had rejoined, which, according to my vet, is surprisingly common in smaller animals where the tubes are so close together anyway. He was re-snipped!

 

You're right about allowing time for the tubes to clear tho.

 

Crow

[COMPO 54]

Jill's come into season and stay in season until mated (some vets believe its the full act of penetration and the biting the neck) and then they release their eggs, if not mated as you are aware they stay in season and looking for a mate

 

I have heard of some vasectomised hobs tubes refusing and them making jill's pregnant....it also happens with some people in the past

 

take the hob to a ferret knowledgeable vet, make sure they have done the op before and understand why you want it doing!

 

Leave the hob a few months from the op before using him, thus allowing him to clear his pipes

 

Then its the same as introducing a hob to a jill for kits....but this time he wont be able (or shouldn't be) to impregnate the jill's , they will go through the act of mating, she will release her egg's but they wont get fertilised, she will go through a phantom pregnancy and come out of season for a while....she may come back in season within the same summer just repeat the mating

 

I no longer keep Jill ferrets due to the hassle and cost!

 

Good luck

[Kay 3,709]

The tubes re joining isnt that un common , in the last few years theres more & more people reporting second & third year use is resulting in litters

 

I do sometimes think people put the ferrets together to soon resulting in a litter after a vasectomy , but its certainly not rare for males to produce litters after 3+ yrs of having a vasectomy

[The one 8,463]

In the first year you could accept that folk haven't waited the required time or the vets not done the job right but after that you must accept the tubes have rejoined ,Has anyone been back to there vet and had a word what did the vet say ??? i'd still like to think the vet didn't take enough of the tubes out for them to rejoin .

[Crow 1]

When I returned to my vet they explained that it is always a possibility with snipped animals of any kind. They then offered to re-snip him again free of charge (which was handy as I would have paid with ferret kits!!). That was the only hob I had that happen with, and my vet is 'ferret friendly' as they say.

[Tiercel 6,986]

I read this article a little over a year ago, makes for some intresting reading.

 

 

Vasectomised Hobs - are they all they are cut up to be?!

 

Some disturbing news has come to light on the subject of vasectomised hobs. Firstly, it seems that there is sometimes a little confusion about the differences between a vasectomised hob and a castrated hob, and what this means for an owner and any other ferrets in the family. Secondly, it may be that using a vasectomised hob on an in-season jill is not a totally reliable method of avoiding unwanted litters, as a number of readers have reported this spring.

 

Let’s take the differences between vasectomy and castration first. A vasectomy in a male ferret involves the severing of the ducts that transports the fertile sperm from the testicles to the penis. The ferret will still, technically, be fertile in that he is producing viable sperm. The only difference is that the sperm does not reach the penis and so mating a jill should not result in pregnancy. In all other respects, the hob will look, smell and behave as if he is an entire, sexually active male. This means he will be totally preoccupied with looking for jills in the spring and summer months; he may be aggressive to other males, and he will probably have a fairly pungent pong. He will completely willing and able to mate with jills, despite the fact that he cannot impregnate them.

 

Castration, on the other hand, involves the removal of the testes and thus the production of the sex hormones. A castrated hob becomes sexually inactive, uninterested in jills, and loses most, if not all, of the inter-male aggression associated with rivalry for mating jills. Indeed, he is incapable of making a jill pregnant. Lack of sex hormones also leads to less smell, a cleaner coat and, generally, a ferret who is more sociable and playful with people and other ferrets. Castration does not, however, reduce working ability.

 

Until recently, vets were more accustomed to being asked for a hob ferret to be vasectomised than castrated. This is simply because it has been long recognised that jills need to be brought out of season to avoid the risk of aplastic anaemia, a potentially fatal condition of unmated jills left in season. Since it is the act of mating that brings about ovulation in the jill, a mating with a vasectomised hob ends her season but does not result in pregnancy. The jill may go through a phantom pregnancy and, six weeks later (the end of a normal pregnancy), will usually come back into season and need to be mated again to the vasectomised hob.

 

Problems can occur when an owner simply asks for a hob ferret to be ‘neutered’. The owner may want the ferret to be castrated, the vet may assume it is in for vasectomy. Technically, of course, mistakes like this shouldn’t happen but it has been known. Several rescues have reported owners coming to find companions for their ‘neutered hob’ only to find it was a sex-mad vasectomised hob with a lot more than a plutonic friendship on its mind! Entire and vasectomised hobs do not make easy companions for jills or other hobs during the mating season.

 

In most cases, the situation is that an owner has requested that a hob be vasectomised because he is to be used to bring jills out of season. Indeed, most ferret welfare organisations will recommend this as an alternative to a jill jab or a permanent spay (ovariohysterectomy) operation on the jill. The caveat here is that many vasectomies can and do reverse themselves.

 

This year, I have had five incidents reported of vasectomised hobs apparently becoming fertile. Two have been in Scotland, one in the North of England, one in the south east, and one in the Midlands. All resulted in unwanted litters. In two cases the hob was lent out to other owners as a means of bringing jills out of season, resulting in even more unwanted litters. Aside from the fact that every year there are too many ferrets and too few caring homes, there is the embarrassment of rescues who advise the use a vasectomised hob and then find that they are indirectly responsible for dozens of unplanned kits.

 

Alarmingly, vasectomy reversal is more common than many people realise. After speaking to a number of rescues and vets, some feel the reversal rate may be as high as 70% in the two years following vasectomy. This was far higher than I had ever thought, and although we have no hard statistics for the rate as yet, it offers some indication of the number of unplanned kits born each year as a result.

 

Why does it happen? One vet suggested that while the surgical procedure is, technically, quite uncomplicated, it is often difficult to ensure that the sperm ducts are sufficiently cut and tied adequately to be permanent. After all, you are talking about tiny, tiny, pieces of tissue. Some will re-grow enough to rejoin, and so the hob is again entire. Even if only one sperm duct rejoins, ‘firing on one cylinder’ is enough to make a jill pregnant.

 

So what are the options for bringing a jill out of season without producing a litter? The safest and most permanent is to have your jill spayed. If you feel that you never want to breed from your jill, do please consider this. If your vet is reluctant or quotes a price higher than, say, that charged for spaying a female cat, contact your local ferret club, the NFWS or me, and maybe we can put you in contact with vets who routinely spay jill ferrets at a reasonable rate.

 

If a permanent spay is not what you want for your jill, then a jill-jab is another option. This is an injection of a hormone which will suppress the jill’s season, usually for the whole summer, although this may depend on how early you get her injected. The price of a jill jab can vary widely, though. I have heard of prices ranging from a pound or two per jill to over £10 per jill. Again, it may be worth contacting your local ferret club or NFWS to find out what their vets charge. Some clubs have arrangements which vastly reduce costs of these injections. A word of advice, though. Some people (including myself) have had some odd reactions in jills after a jill-jab. Some lose coats, others seem lethargic, others just are generally ‘off’ for a while. In many cases this may be down to the dose of hormone being a little too generous. The standard dose of the hormone used (proligesterone) is 0.5ml per kg and many owners and vets simply register the 0.5ml as a dose. However, there are lots of jills who weigh a good deal less than a kilogram so it is worth weighing your jill and asking your vet to adjust the dose pro-rata to her weight. This may help avoid some of the minor reactions to the jab.

 

But are vasectomised hobs a waste of time? No, I don’t think so, but we have been a bit too complacent in believing them totally reliable. There are a few golden rules to follow which may help. Firstly, if you have a newly vasectomised hob, do not allow him near the jills for at least six weeks after the op. There is likely to be enough residual sperm in his interior plumbing to make a jill pregnant. After 6-8 weeks the severing of the ducts should mean that he can no longer transport viable sperm into the jill on mating. He will be highly likely to be effective for his first year. It is from the second year onwards we start to get reports of vasectomy reversals. Here a possible safeguard is to limit the use of a hob until you are sure he is not fertile that year. This may mean not lending him out to other people until you are sure, or maybe only using him on a one of your jills at first. If this means paying out for a couple of jill jabs for others in season, look on it as insurance cover. It costs more to rear unwanted litters for 6-8 weeks than it does to pay for a couple of jill-jabs!

 

If any of you have also had experiences of unplanned litters as a result of putting your jills to a vasectomised hob, please let me know. I, and NFWS, are interested in compiling reports to try and identify how, why and when reversals are most likely to occur. In this way, we may be able to help avoid future accidents.

 

Since posting this article a friend has had his hob done and hhis vet told him that if they cut at least 3-4 cm out of the vas then the likelyhood of them rejoining is minimal.

 

TC

[Kay 3,709]

Depends how long ago that was written but i would have thought that castrations were asked for more than vasectomys today as most resuces have both sexes done before there re homed and having a jill speyed & a hob vasecotomised to be homed together would seem pointless

[Scuzy 1]

Great answers people, im glad ive gotten it all straight now .

But theres still on morer thing, how long do i wait after a jill jab to put the hobs back in with them and if he still has a go at them can he get them pregnant if they are out of season?

Thanks very much, Luke.

[Kay 3,709]

I wouldnt put them together untill he is out of season, he will hump her regardless , he will hump any ferret in with him, male female wont make any difference to him

[Scuzy 1]

I wouldnt put them together untill he is out of season, he will hump her regardless , he will hump any ferret in with him, male female wont make any difference to him

Thanks kay as ive quite recently found out!

But is there still a chance of the jills getting pregnant when he does it?