DSC 1

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

For me it goes as follows .Ive been stalking for a couple of decades without the need for any paperwork ,without the need to part with money for my sport ,without the need to provide an id number to a gamedealer and certainly without the holier than thow attitude of SOME of these test achievers .I am /have been a mentor to 5 firearms applicators all of which were accepted on my say so .I am the stalker on 2 firearms tickets provisionally until i say so ,until i am happy with their progress to stalk alone.This was asked of me by our police division through others and not once have i been asked for any piece of paper to back up experience .

The fact is that too many people jumped on the cart to start with ,those that saw a buck to be made and those that thought their chance of better /more stalking would come from it .It is now a very sad fact that a chap with a crash course in deer shooting ,shooting not stalking is ,in some places to be valued more than a chap of many years experience but no paper .Those of you advocating the course as a life changing experience are in my opinion just fanning the flames for more testing .

The whole thing should be optional but not a quick IN for those who cant be bothered to serve the time in the field .Ive spent a lot of time in the presence of some of these 1 and 2 holders /witnesses ,some by choice ,others not and one thing comes to the fore -Their no different to me ,a lowly non paper holder .

[fireblade_rrw 20]

For me it goes as follows .Ive been stalking for a couple of decades without the need for any paperwork ,without the need to part with money for my sport ,without the need to provide an id number to a gamedealer and certainly without the holier than thow attitude of SOME of these test achievers .I am /have been a mentor to 5 firearms applicators all of which were accepted on my say so .I am the stalker on 2 firearms tickets provisionally until i say so ,until i am happy with their progress to stalk alone.This was asked of me by our police division through others and not once have i been asked for any piece of paper to back up experience .

The fact is that too many people jumped on the cart to start with ,those that saw a buck to be made and those that thought their chance of better /more stalking would come from it .It is now a very sad fact that a chap with a crash course in deer shooting ,shooting not stalking is ,in some places to be valued more than a chap of many years experience but no paper .Those of you advocating the course as a life changing experience are in my opinion just fanning the flames for more testing .

The whole thing should be optional but not a quick IN for those who cant be bothered to serve the time in the field .Ive spent a lot of time in the presence of some of these 1 and 2 holders /witnesses ,some by choice ,others not and one thing comes to the fore -Their no different to me ,a lowly non paper holder .

 

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, however, you devalue your argument by dismissing the test, without knowing anything about it. Unless of course you have nothing else to learn?

 

Like you I've been shooting for more than a couple of decades, but wont blow my own trumpet on experience. Putting the financial aspect and the greed that goes with this test to one side, there could be a positive side to the test, insofar as we are all learning, and if anything, this 'formal competency' may actually weed out the unsavoury elements in the sport.

 

 

 

'Get over the idea that only children should spend their time in study. Be a student so long as you still have something to learn, and this will mean all your life' Henry L. Doherty

[Night Hunter 109]

For me it goes as follows .Ive been stalking for a couple of decades without the need for any paperwork ,without the need to part with money for my sport ,without the need to provide an id number to a gamedealer and certainly without the holier than thow attitude of SOME of these test achievers .I am /have been a mentor to 5 firearms applicators all of which were accepted on my say so .I am the stalker on 2 firearms tickets provisionally until i say so ,until i am happy with their progress to stalk alone.This was asked of me by our police division through others and not once have i been asked for any piece of paper to back up experience .

The fact is that too many people jumped on the cart to start with ,those that saw a buck to be made and those that thought their chance of better /more stalking would come from it .It is now a very sad fact that a chap with a crash course in deer shooting ,shooting not stalking is ,in some places to be valued more than a chap of many years experience but no paper .Those of you advocating the course as a life changing experience are in my opinion just fanning the flames for more testing .

The whole thing should be optional but not a quick IN for those who cant be bothered to serve the time in the field .Ive spent a lot of time in the presence of some of these 1 and 2 holders /witnesses ,some by choice ,others not and one thing comes to the fore -Their no different to me ,a lowly non paper holder .

 

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, however, you devalue your argument by dismissing the test, without knowing anything about it. Unless of course you have nothing else to learn?

 

Like you I've been shooting for more than a couple of decades, but wont blow my own trumpet on experience. Putting the financial aspect and the greed that goes with this test to one side, there could be a positive side to the test, insofar as we are all learning, and if anything, this 'formal competency' may actually weed out the unsavoury elements in the sport.

 

 

 

'Get over the idea that only children should spend their time in study. Be a student so long as you still have something to learn, and this will mean all your life' Henry L. Doherty

 

Fireblade,It would not be so bad if everyone was required to sit this test but it grips my sh1t that we may have to jump through hoops to continue our chosen hobby at great expence but foreign stalkers may be able to come here and shoot deer for nothing more than trophy hunting and not conservation or deer management purposes without siting the same test or having to jump through the same hoops because they may hold a certificate relevant in thier own country just remember not all countries have the same standard,if we have to sit this test to prove competency it is only right that everyone who shoots deer in not only scotland but in this country should be qualified to the same standards mate.so if it becomes law it must be for everyone without exception. or we stalkers in scotland will be calling it a racist law........

[fireblade_rrw 20]

For me it goes as follows .Ive been stalking for a couple of decades without the need for any paperwork ,without the need to part with money for my sport ,without the need to provide an id number to a gamedealer and certainly without the holier than thow attitude of SOME of these test achievers .I am /have been a mentor to 5 firearms applicators all of which were accepted on my say so .I am the stalker on 2 firearms tickets provisionally until i say so ,until i am happy with their progress to stalk alone.This was asked of me by our police division through others and not once have i been asked for any piece of paper to back up experience .

The fact is that too many people jumped on the cart to start with ,those that saw a buck to be made and those that thought their chance of better /more stalking would come from it .It is now a very sad fact that a chap with a crash course in deer shooting ,shooting not stalking is ,in some places to be valued more than a chap of many years experience but no paper .Those of you advocating the course as a life changing experience are in my opinion just fanning the flames for more testing .

The whole thing should be optional but not a quick IN for those who cant be bothered to serve the time in the field .Ive spent a lot of time in the presence of some of these 1 and 2 holders /witnesses ,some by choice ,others not and one thing comes to the fore -Their no different to me ,a lowly non paper holder .

 

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, however, you devalue your argument by dismissing the test, without knowing anything about it. Unless of course you have nothing else to learn?

 

Like you I've been shooting for more than a couple of decades, but wont blow my own trumpet on experience. Putting the financial aspect and the greed that goes with this test to one side, there could be a positive side to the test, insofar as we are all learning, and if anything, this 'formal competency' may actually weed out the unsavoury elements in the sport.

 

 

 

'Get over the idea that only children should spend their time in study. Be a student so long as you still have something to learn, and this will mean all your life' Henry L. Doherty

 

Fireblade,It would not be so bad if everyone was required to sit this test but it grips my sh1t that we may have to jump through hoops to continue our chosen hobby at great expence but foreign stalkers may be able to come here and shoot deer for nothing more than trophy hunting and not conservation or deer management purposes without siting the same test or having to jump through the same hoops because they may hold a certificate relevant in thier own country just remember not all countries have the same standard,if we have to sit this test to prove competency it is only right that everyone who shoots deer in not only scotland but in this country should be qualified to the same standards mate.so if it becomes law it must be for everyone without exception. or we stalkers in scotland will be calling it a racist law........

 

 

Goes without saying, that I totally agree with you ! Sadly, in this country, we tend to make life easier for incumbents, and more difficult for residents !

 

The difficulty is, this is with us, and no matter how much we complain, we will be stuck with it. Head in sand syndrome wont work, my advice would be get it done and over with before it becomes unaffordable, or mega difficult !

[Night Hunter 109]

For me it goes as follows .Ive been stalking for a couple of decades without the need for any paperwork ,without the need to part with money for my sport ,without the need to provide an id number to a gamedealer and certainly without the holier than thow attitude of SOME of these test achievers .I am /have been a mentor to 5 firearms applicators all of which were accepted on my say so .I am the stalker on 2 firearms tickets provisionally until i say so ,until i am happy with their progress to stalk alone.This was asked of me by our police division through others and not once have i been asked for any piece of paper to back up experience .

The fact is that too many people jumped on the cart to start with ,those that saw a buck to be made and those that thought their chance of better /more stalking would come from it .It is now a very sad fact that a chap with a crash course in deer shooting ,shooting not stalking is ,in some places to be valued more than a chap of many years experience but no paper .Those of you advocating the course as a life changing experience are in my opinion just fanning the flames for more testing .

The whole thing should be optional but not a quick IN for those who cant be bothered to serve the time in the field .Ive spent a lot of time in the presence of some of these 1 and 2 holders /witnesses ,some by choice ,others not and one thing comes to the fore -Their no different to me ,a lowly non paper holder .

 

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, however, you devalue your argument by dismissing the test, without knowing anything about it. Unless of course you have nothing else to learn?

 

Like you I've been shooting for more than a couple of decades, but wont blow my own trumpet on experience. Putting the financial aspect and the greed that goes with this test to one side, there could be a positive side to the test, insofar as we are all learning, and if anything, this 'formal competency' may actually weed out the unsavoury elements in the sport.

 

 

 

'Get over the idea that only children should spend their time in study. Be a student so long as you still have something to learn, and this will mean all your life' Henry L. Doherty

 

Fireblade,It would not be so bad if everyone was required to sit this test but it grips my sh1t that we may have to jump through hoops to continue our chosen hobby at great expence but foreign stalkers may be able to come here and shoot deer for nothing more than trophy hunting and not conservation or deer management purposes without siting the same test or having to jump through the same hoops because they may hold a certificate relevant in thier own country just remember not all countries have the same standard,if we have to sit this test to prove competency it is only right that everyone who shoots deer in not only scotland but in this country should be qualified to the same standards mate.so if it becomes law it must be for everyone without exception. or we stalkers in scotland will be calling it a racist law........

 

 

Goes without saying, that I totally agree with you ! Sadly, in this country, we tend to make life easier for incumbents, and more difficult for residents !

 

The difficulty is, this is with us, and no matter how much we complain, we will be stuck with it. Head in sand syndrome wont work, my advice would be get it done and over with before it becomes unaffordable, or mega difficult !

Ive been hanging off because when I spoke to the guy from the scottish paliament he said that people who have dcs1 may have to sit another exam if it became law but they should not have to get more training he also mentioned annual subscription payment to be entered on a register of competant persons,but I do not think that they anticipated the objections and letters that they recieved from people who are against registration I think that the police should send out a comprehensive multiple choice questionaire with similar questions as dcs1 on safety etc with the aplication form for firearms and people would then be forced to physicly research the answers hence self training in the process. Remember this nobody owns deer while they are alive not even the deer commition for scotland but this is thier way of making sure that everyone pays them for stalking deer in scotland,and as mentioned before the tax man is waiting in the wings to get his slice why else would the goverment suggest a register for competant persons its so that the tax man knows exactly where to find you,they used the same competant register tactics on doorman and called them registered door supervisors to stop them working without paying tax.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

So if and when this becomes law ,will there be one test across the whole spectrum and will the price be capped? .Those that took the previous courses may get some reprieve or be sick as parrots !.

[Night Hunter 109]

So if and when this becomes law ,will there be one test across the whole spectrum and will the price be capped? .Those that took the previous courses may get some reprieve or be sick as parrots !.

 

When I spoke to the guy a while back he said that things were still in thier infancy and that he was not sure exactly what the outcome would be but he did say that if there was another exam people with the dcs1 would probably not require retraining as they will already have the knowlege to just sit the exam but they would incur a further exam fee and registration fee.

 

When I asked about capping the fee to keep it within the reach of the working man he said that there was a possibility that there would be a unified fee but could not confirm what this would be.

 

Hopefully they will just leave it as a voluntary thing for people who shoot for thier own consumption and just make it compulsory for people who comercialise stalking ie:sell stalking or who sell venison on to game dealers or the public.

 

But if it is made compulsory for everyone this would have to include foreign visitors or it would prove the whole thing to be nothing more than a racist scam and also there would have to be an introductory period of about five years to allow people to sit the required exam. If there is no introductory period the government would have to compensate people who have legaly held deer caliber rifles and who would no longer have a legitamate reason to hold them due to the new legislation ........

[Night Hunter 109]

Keep the votes and comments coming guys and keep the pressure on the goverment by writing to your mp and to the scottish parliment its a close call there were 52% of respondants against manditory testing for stalkers so if the pressure is kept on it may just make the difference unless the goverment have thier own agenda,if you do nothing then you only have yourself to blame. we need to stop DCS from commercialising our stalking.

[bavarianbrit 0]

You as a british shooter/stalker can go to Sweden or Germany or Poland etc where licenses are mandatory and arrange a visitors hunting permit as an overseas guest, you must just prove some previous experience by showing for example a UK game license, so all that exists is an international reciprocol arrangement between countries, it works in the US also so please only bitch about something when you understand the bigger picture. Only my opinion of course.

 

sure most of them are deemed competent by the tests they have take in there own country.

anyone could still stalk here with a dsc2 cert holder.

 

you seem to be missing the point mate 'if it were made manditory' surely if the older keepers with the old style stalking certs and years of experience stalking in this country are having to sit these dsc certs to keep thier jobs then anyone coming into this country to shoot deer should have to have them and simply being acompanied by someone with a dsc 2 would not be acceptable, i for one would not be very happy if i had to pay these totally extravagant fees for a certifacate for the privalage of doing what i have done free for 9 years, to watch other people from other countries swan in without the certificate and shoot deer purely to raise revenue,the argument as far as i am aware is for a qualification that makes sure everyone who shoots deer in this country is trained to the same standard and that everyone carries the same qualification ,different countries have different standards of training you only have to take driving as an example,it seems that the people who thought that they would benifit financially from this have shot themself in the foot sorry but you cant have yer cake and eat it

[FightTheBan 1,147]

A friend on mine has his DSC and has the grace of a baby elephant whilst out stalking. Some things cant be learnt on a course.

[Night Hunter 109]

You as a british shooter/stalker can go to Sweden or Germany or Poland etc where licenses are mandatory and arrange a visitors hunting permit as an overseas guest, you must just prove some previous experience by showing for example a UK game license, so all that exists is an international reciprocol arrangement between countries, it works in the US also so please only bitch about something when you understand the bigger picture. Only my opinion of course.

 

sure most of them are deemed competent by the tests they have take in there own country.

anyone could still stalk here with a dsc2 cert holder.

 

you seem to be missing the point mate 'if it were made manditory' surely if the older keepers with the old style stalking certs and years of experience stalking in this country are having to sit these dsc certs to keep thier jobs then anyone coming into this country to shoot deer should have to have them and simply being acompanied by someone with a dsc 2 would not be acceptable, i for one would not be very happy if i had to pay these totally extravagant fees for a certifacate for the privalage of doing what i have done free for 9 years, to watch other people from other countries swan in without the certificate and shoot deer purely to raise revenue,the argument as far as i am aware is for a qualification that makes sure everyone who shoots deer in this country is trained to the same standard and that everyone carries the same qualification ,different countries have different standards of training you only have to take driving as an example,it seems that the people who thought that they would benifit financially from this have shot themself in the foot sorry but you cant have yer cake and eat it

 

 

I value your opinion mate but as stated DCS argument is that "everyone who shoots deer in scotland should be trained to the same standard" Hence allowing forign stalkers with different standards of training and competence throws this argument to the dogs my wife could buy a uk game licence for less than a fiver from the post office mate,I have experienced the lack of safety concideration of foreign so called trained hunters in the past..... If it is made manditory then it is only right that these visitors should have to prove thier competance by sitting the exam the same as everyone else after all these certificates are to assure the general public that everyone without exception are trained to the same standards or have i picked it up wrong and the certificates only mean that only people from scotland who wish to continue in deer stalking have paid a wad of cash and obtained a recipt to do what they have done for years when others from abroad can do as they wish when they get here as for them being acompanied by a dcs2 stalker who is firing the rifle the trained stalker or the trophy hunter its all a load of bull.

If it goes ahead I for one will be heading a campeign to educate the general public exactly what is going on in scotland and I will expose the new law as a racist law against the scottish stalkers and I am sure that our english neibours will back the campeign as it will eventually become law in england too I would like to add that 52% of respondents to the goverments survey were against manditory testing.

Someone with little or no stalking experience can bury thier heads in a book and then shoot a lucky couple of groups at a piece of paper and pass thier dcs1 and they can then be unleashed with a high power rifle out in the contryside without further mentoring etc ...In todays culture when there are more people using the outdoors.

I can see the headlines already "Trained Hunter Shoots Hillwalker" does this peice of paper make them a trained hunter I dont think so I have been stalking for 9years and still shoot with my friend and mentor who has vast stalking experience as previously described and I would still not say that I was worthy of the trained hunter title as I still learn something new on every outing.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Night Hunter

[Hoolit 2]

Unfortunately in my case the people who own the ground i have been shooting on for years are now demanding that anyone stalking on their land must have at least DSC1 ,and from what i can gather from other shooting folk this is unfortunately becoming standard practice .

I have been involved in all aspects of shooting in scotland and pride myself in the knowledge and skills i have picked up over the last 30 odd years.

We should all remember to ask the door tapers come election time as to their parties stance on Field sports.

 

We should begin with the SNP I think most scots would be pretty pissed by their stance on field sports.

Look what they did to dogs tails.

Look what they released into the wild of scotland mind you the Snp are very fond of the Rspb.

Right soap box away im of to lamp some foxes before some bugger asks me to go on a training course.

[Night Hunter 109]

Hi guys it looks like someone has been paying attention to what stalkers want,this was taken from the BASC website:

 

Press releases and events BASC: Compulsory testing plans scrapped for Scottish deer stalking

Wednesday, 05, May 2010 09:22

 

Planned compulsory testing for deer stalkers in Scotland has been scrapped after lobbying led by the UK's largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) and supported by other land management organisations. The move would have meant the estimated 20,000 people actively involved in deer management in Scotland having to pass a mandatory test.

 

This proposal had been expected to be part of the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill but after successful lobbying these proposals have been shelved. The British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) is one of the main providers of deer stalker training in Scotland but was a principal objector to the introduction of mandatory testing.

 

The Government proposals could have made existing qualifications redundant. Thousands of stalkers will now be spared the cost of taking new examinations. It will also save considerable amounts of public money which would have been incurred in establishing a register for deer stalkers in Scotland. It will also prevent stalkers resident in Scotland from requiring a higher standard of testing than elsewhere in Europe.

 

BASC Scotland's press and policy officer, Nicolle Upton, said: "BASC Scotland uncovered misleading guidance regarding deer stalking fatalities in the consultation document for the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill. BASC's own research showed that three fatalities referred to in the consultation document were not associated with deer stalking, deer stalkers or indeed Scotland. The guidance given to the public in the consultation was misleading and undermined the already weak evidence supporting the argument that deer stalking represents 'a potential risk to public safety'."

 

"After months of lobbying we are relieved that the Scottish Government has recognised our concerns and removed the requirement for competence testing. Scotland already has one of the best safety records in the world; attributable to the high standards adhered to by our experienced stalkers and the voluntary training taken up by newcomers. We support industry-led voluntary training and believe that, in this area, Government control is both unnecessary and would act as a disincentive for vital deer management."

 

 

ENDS

REMEMBER KEEP LOBBYING YOUR MP'S AND MSP,S AS IT HAS ONLY BEEN SHELVED

Edited May 7, 2010 by Night Hunter

[clint 45]

DSC 1/2 or similar paper, may no make good shot, or give person ticket to shoot , or get close with deer. It do give people respect for animal that is persicute in Uk, by non profesional shooter,with train & educate about this animal.

Edited June 30, 2010 by clint

[Night Hunter 109]

DSC 1/2 or similar paper, may no make good shot, or give person ticket to shoot , or get close with deer. It do give people respect for animal that is persicute in Uk, by non profesional shooter,with train & educate about this animal.

 

Hi clint,If you take the trouble to read the whole post you will find that some people who have thier DCS1/2 still demonstrate that they have no respect for the deer they shoot.A few people myself included have had to clean up the mess left by these so called trained hunters,who are too lazy to follow up a wounded deer or who just fail to follow up due to thier inexperiance.

 

I do not know where you have got the idea that deer in scotland are persicuted.

 

I do not have any DCS certificates but have been stalking roe deer for eleven years,I was mentored by a stalker with over 30 years experience,does this qualify me as a professional stalker...NO. But it does make me experienced at shooting my chosen quarry.... The Roe Deer. Some of the guys offering the training have not been stalking for any great length of time and have less shooting under thier belt than my mentor.