DSC 1

[Murph 30]

some good points made there but you have to think outside the box

im a pro have nothing to do with dsc1 though i have dsc2 accredited witness status.

theese points are only made through my experience.

Firstly a mentor is the best way but not everybody has that luxury and how good are they??

secondly its all common sense, I have had people arrive with wrong ammo for rifle, guns brand new and not even fired never mind zeroed people who think 55g ammo is less powerful then 100g because they think thats the ammont of powder inside.

no idea of notifiable diseases or what to do in event of finding one.

not everybody needs to know if the go out with a mentor or pro but think how many dont.

a gun not zeroed could be 8ft off target now if it were 8ft high is a safe shot still safe.

A form of mandatory tests and general gun care would stamp the vast majourity of this out.

We have to police our sport and all of the above people once they have been shown have made good stalkers.

Imagine the other side if they had gone into the field and come a cropper> more guideline rules laws restrictions for everybody.

want a car you need a lisence to get one you pay whats the difference if your serious about your sport take a test and prove it only an idiot could not learn something through doing it.

 

Would have thought IF things where that bad an accident would have happened before now,

and any of the dsc courses will not make anyone into a good shot.( just how many times in a day can you do the shooting test)

but you want it as you will be getting good money from them that Have to do it.

Its been said above this is for the some folk to make more money, its got nothing to do with the deer.

how much is a driving test by the way, does it stop accidents and fools killing or inuring others.

people have been stalking and shooting deer for lots of years with very few accidents ,

all the dsc 1 or 2 does is give some folk an excuse just to take out the trophy ones, thats why there are so many of the things about.

 

Level 1 and 2 have nothing to do with trophies, level 1 is about ecology, hygiene and recognition with a small amount of practical thrown in, level 2 is practical stalks, if you deviate from your cull plan during the assesment you fail that stalk. As has been said time and again, they are useful for many but no substitute for experience.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Murph

[markbivvy 6]

some good points made there but you have to think outside the box

im a pro have nothing to do with dsc1 though i have dsc2 accredited witness status.

theese points are only made through my experience.

Firstly a mentor is the best way but not everybody has that luxury and how good are they??

secondly its all common sense, I have had people arrive with wrong ammo for rifle, guns brand new and not even fired never mind zeroed people who think 55g ammo is less powerful then 100g because they think thats the ammont of powder inside.

no idea of notifiable diseases or what to do in event of finding one.

not everybody needs to know if the go out with a mentor or pro but think how many dont.

a gun not zeroed could be 8ft off target now if it were 8ft high is a safe shot still safe.

A form of mandatory tests and general gun care would stamp the vast majourity of this out.

We have to police our sport and all of the above people once they have been shown have made good stalkers.

Imagine the other side if they had gone into the field and come a cropper> more guideline rules laws restrictions for everybody.

want a car you need a lisence to get one you pay whats the difference if your serious about your sport take a test and prove it only an idiot could not learn something through doing it.

 

Would have thought IF things where that bad an accident would have happened before now,

and any of the dsc courses will not make anyone into a good shot.( just how many times in a day can you do the shooting test)

but you want it as you will be getting good money from them that Have to do it.

Its been said above this is for the some folk to make more money, its got nothing to do with the deer.

how much is a driving test by the way, does it stop accidents and fools killing or inuring others.

people have been stalking and shooting deer for lots of years with very few accidents ,

all the dsc 1 or 2 does is give some folk an excuse just to take out the trophy ones, thats why there are so many of the things about.

 

Level 1 and 2 have nothing to do with trophies. As has been said time and again, they are useful for many but no substitute for experience.

Level 1 and 2 have nothing to do with trophies

do they not, most dsc 1and 2 holders i have met only speak of trophys.

[Murph 30]

No they don't, I suppose I meant the tests themselves are not about trophies not that the people who do the test aren't interested in them. They're just a proof that you can do something to a recognised standard, nothing more.

[john robbo 30]

I never said the dsc should be mandatory only that we should have a test of some sort

and i never said they became good shots just better stalkers as in more informed none of them had a dsc1 or any other form of test.

nor did i say they had been on one since the incidents only i had showed them the errors.

would you take a test if were free????

[scotrat 2]

The DSC 1+2 are flaweded in their current format in my opinion.I have witnessed people turn up with the level 1 having answered a few question's and taken an accuracy test to find out if they can shoot at a deer shaped piece of paper with little or no experience of actually shooting a deer. I think the level 1 should have a stalk thrown in aswell for the price £250 is too much for a shooting and biology lesson

I agree with testing of some sort and a revamped level 1 would be suffice but to scrap the DSC1+2 and have another test I am totally against,I forked out my hard earned money due to the fact the forestry companies I rent my ground off told me as a lease holder I needed too and to be honest I enjoyed both the DSC level 1+2. It is unfortunate that we have ministers who know nothing about shooting and deer stalking making up the rules as they go along.They asked the DCS for advice on the new proposals and they came up with this new Deer stalking license but lads its not been passed yet and I personally think it will lead to more deer poaching because no one will go through the new test unless its free.

England is not included yet but ministers are watching this unfold to see whether it will work down there and in a recession the cash cow DCS have invented may win out to the detriment of all involved with shooting, deer stalking and game management

They have said they might give DSC level 2 holders grandfather rights for the new test but if they are going to lose out on the cash cow they have invented you can bet your ass the level 2 holders will be required to fork out more money.

 

As mentioned we are now in a claim society so the estates and land owners need to cover their own arses so seeing a bit of paper that atleast they know the law and can shoot accurately is the best thing they have to offer.

 

Mandatory testing is in most European countries now but it makes no difference to the safety,I have looked into this we have the best safety record in Europe when it comes to Firearms.

[wireviz 8]

Scotland spent over £7,000,000 on deer management last year and this was sanctioned by the SNP. They are a national party and were possible want independence this will go a long way to that with regards the countryside in Scotland.

The questions that we should really be asking is were our money is going. The forestry commission spent 5.7 MILLION on controlling deer (our money ) while the fountain forestry tilhill and scottish woodlands all broke even or made a profit.

The Deer Commission Scotland Gave Peter Watson of the DI a Cheque for 51,000 so that they could do a survey on RTA,s . This was done i am told in there local areas down south and had no real benefit in Scotland. The pictures used in the meeting for propaganda purposes were of cannoch and the death they quote was also down south and it was a big massive Red deer went through a window. What they are doing is collecting small bits of info from anywhere they can and using it against the deer stalker by making it seem as though it is all happening in Scotland.

Sad but we are being run over by guys who,s job it is to get this bill through and if you could work at it for 3 years 40 hours a week i am sure you could get it through.

Edited July 19, 2009 by wireviz

[Guest busterdog]

I put my self my son and nephew through deer level 1, i thought it would be a step in the right direction but couldn't have been further from the truth. Apart from rip off prices it was of no benefit what so ever whilst actually in the field, i have come to the conclusion that it's all jobs for the boys. Nothing IMO makes up for actual time in the field with some one who knows what they are doing at a one two one level. To many times the press carry stories of plague proportion deer levels and yet in reality you cant get your foot in the door, i think my self very lucky that i've got a few good friends that are keepers who put up with me and let me have the odd day. If there was some national level register that gave you access to cull level deer then all well and good but i can't see that happening, so what was the point of paying for DSC 1, it's given me no benefits what so ever.

[J Darcy 5,871]

The DSC benefits only the organistaion responsable for it. The stalker will gain no real benefit. Christ, some of these "examiners" still are not familiar with the habits of our deer. We only have six wild species, it shouldnt be hard!!!! :wacko:

[welshhound2 20]

after reading through this thread im a bit confused, due to being new to the stalking scene i am sitting my dsc1/2 in oct through basc and thought it would benefit me question is is it worth my while doing the course or not? or is it just a money maker for basc/dsc? opinions?

[flytie 1]

I did the DSC1 and thoroughly enjoyed it. I found the BDS team extremely well informed, we had a vet to talk us through the diseases and what indicators to look for, we had Steve Bowers (of Specialist Rifles) to do the ballistics course, gun safety was done by Dave Cannon (Avon & Somerset Polices's Armourer). We also had a lawyer to talk us through the legal implications of our own actions whilst stalking and processing the animal into the food chain.

 

I learned a lot from the four days the course was over and considered it good value. Anything that raises the ability of stalkers new to the game must be a good thing. I thought £280 was good value for what I recieved, if only that I can identify the major diseases of deer with confidence.

 

I do have sympathy for people who have been stalking for years and are more than competant. But in every other sphere of life we are examined or apprenticed to prove our competance. If you cannot be apprenticed to a stalker then examination is the only way to prove competance.

 

ft

[Night Hunter 109]

after reading through this thread im a bit confused, due to being new to the stalking scene i am sitting my dsc1/2 in oct through basc and thought it would benefit me question is is it worth my while doing the course or not? or is it just a money maker for basc/dsc? opinions?

THERE MAY BE A NEW COURSE TITLED" FIT AND COMPETANT".

IM LED TO BELIEVE THAT IF YOU HAVE COMPLETED DCS1/2 YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO JUST SIT THE NEW EXAM BUT IM NOT SURE AT THIS POINT ,NOBBODY SEEMS TO WANT TO GIVE US A STRAIGHT ANSWER, I WILL BE HOLDING OFF UNTIL WE ARE TOLD AT LEAST THEN YOU WILL SIT THE COURSE AND THEN THE EXAM WHILE EVERYTHING IS STILL FRESH IN YOUR MIND MATE.... THAT IS IF THIS BILL GETS THROUGH......

[mj robson 8]

Here is how I see the 3 questions,

 

Should DSC1 be manditory for professional deer stalkers

 

Maybe not DSC1 but I believe all profesional stalkers should be on some form of register for which they have to prove themselves worthy. At the moment there are guides working in Scotland who take out overseas clients and don't even hold an FAC let alone shoot deer regularly, that cannot be right in anyones eyes!!!

 

 

 

Should DSC1 be mandatory for the stalkers who shoot recreationally for thier own consumption and not for financial gain

 

I don't see anything wrong with the way things are just now, keep it optional, and don't alienate those who can't afford it or only stalk once or twice a year for the freezer.

 

 

 

Do you think that having these qualifications will make you a better stalker

 

This is the easiest one to answer! If you only learn one thing from the course then you are a better stalker. I doubt there are many folk that know everything so the answer can only be YES.

 

Mark.

[the monkey 338]

monkey thinks

dsc means nothing its just been brought in to make things harder for legal shooters...most people are law abiding citizens that care for there quarry and theerefor know the need for seasons...most people that shoot deer know more about there quarry,species male or feamale than most of the so called experts....the only thing to add is i think there could be a need for disease identification due to the spread of diseases between domestic livestock and deer ....tb ,foot and mouth etc...is this covered in dsc?

[Fidgety 8]

Having recently completed DSC1, I thoroughly recommend it to anyone new to stalking. Covers disease, ballistics, Identification, management, meat handling etc. Very good.

[Gimli 0]

I have nothing against the DSC1 route, but I think there should be the option (which in some ways is better than DSC) of requiring those newly issued with a FAC for deer calibres to be mentored by an experienced stalker acceptable to the police. That mentoring should include some range work to test basic shooting skills and gun safety. But the key is going out repeatedly with experienced stalkers and learning from them how to stalk, when not to shoot and species/gender identification.