Question for all of the....

[TOMO 26,308]

gnash, OK by serve I should have said 'done anything for'.

 

And, yes, life is too short.

 

ATB,

 

Cotswold

 

14 days in lincoln, does that count

[Foxgun Tom 75]

 

My question is, how many of the people who have expressed nationalistic views have actually done anything to serve this country?

 

Cotswold

[/quote

 

Which country are you refering to? I don't regard myself as British I'm Scottish and a nationalist with a Gaelic culture and history!! do you have to serve your country by military means? I've been to the states a few times (New York) Canada, Italy Germany and Eastern Europe, promoting Scotlands History, Culture and Tourisim especially rural tourisim, Money has went into the coffers of the Chancellor and the whole of the UK has benefited from exploits of activities like this!!

 

I don't believe in the union but that does'nt make me anti-english (love the place and its people) as for the Union Flag many of my family were executed, transported, their right to land taken away, their native language banned, native and national dress banned for nearly 35 years, and their way of life destroyed (clanship) by followers of that flag (A British Government responsible in a case of Ethnic cleansing? "surely not"? I'm afraid they were!!) A large number of Scots refer to the union flag as the "BUTCHERS APRON" see Duke of Cumberland There is also the matter of the National Anthem which many Scots find derogatory because of its sixth verse I could never respect an anthem that mentions crushing rebellious Scots. Succesive British governments were responsible for these issues not an English one. The rest of the home countries in my opinion are entitled to their right to choose self government if that is what the people of those countries wish There is absolutely no reason why the four nations can't come together in times of crisis, eg: defence, natural disaster etc.

 

You cannot say that some of the above "its history and does'nt matter" I make no apologies! history does matter ,it defines culture and who a people are!! All nations and people's are moulded by their history thats what makes me as a Scot different from say a Pole!!!!!!!!!!

 

I also believe quite honestly that some in the UK have no understanding of what being a Scot is? or what Scotland means to us? we have Scots Sikhs, Jews Pakistani's, Chinese Italians, you ask them what they are, they'll say Scots first! Chinese or Pakistani second!!! they seem to have a great deal of pride referring to themselves as Scottish that experiment takes place all the time. Why don't other people of different ethnic backgrounds feel the same about other parts of the UK?

 

All the best

 

Tom

 

Ps: passed a lot of time working at Faslane, Coulport, RNAD Beith and ROF Bishopton, who know's might have been instrumental keeping some the military lads in a job

 

Pps: National Anthem sixth verse:

 

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid

Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

Edited March 15, 2009 by Foxgun Tom

[Guest WILF]

I just want to say that I have black friends

 

Yes, I am talking about your good self Selwyn

[greatwhitehunter 47]

i went to scouts for a few months when i was a nipper!

Edited March 15, 2009 by greatwhitehunter

[Guest WILF]

i went to scouts for a few months when i was a nipper!

 

Did you get bummed?

[Meriln2008 0]

Royal Green Jackets....1974-1985.

Germany (loads),N.I.,Belize,Canada,Norway,Brecon,Sweden,Acension,Missed the falklands party,they jacket it as we were on our way!.

 

 

 

>>>>> :sick:

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Pps: National Anthem sixth verse:

 

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid

Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

well you scots have got your revenge , re tony blair, gordon moron brown, etc ,

[Swampy 147]

10yrs MN.....OK not exactly "the forces" unless it was the RFA (blue ensign mob) but I did volunteer and go to the Falklands and to the gulf during the Iraq v Iran war.

 

 

Nice to see people calling it the union flag and not the union jack.

 

 

Swampy

 

Ninging since Stanley

[Foxgun Tom 75]

aaah!! the union flag, a symbol of a United Kingdom a bit strange, there is no reference to Wales or Northern Ireland on it? so much for unity? it seems us Scots and English are more equal than the others?

 

Swampy say's "Nice to see people calling it the union flag and not the union jack."

 

The Union Flag, popularly known as the *Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom. It is the British flag.

 

It is called the Union Flag because it symbolises the administrative union of the countries of the United Kingdom. It was made up up of the individual Flags of three of the Kingdom's countries all united under one Sovereign - the countries of 'England, of 'Scotland' and of 'Ireland' (since 1921 only Northern Ireland has been part of the United Kingdom). As Wales was not a Kingdom but a Principality it could not be included on the flag.

 

The Tudor dynasty was descended from the Welsh adventurer Owen Tudor (c. 1400-1461). Wales had already been conquered by Edward I and the conquest was sealed with the Statute of Rhuddlan, also known as the Statute of Wales, in 1284. In the first half of the sixteenth century, under the reign of Henry VIII, acts of union were passed and Wales sent representatives to the English Parliament. After the union of the two countries Wales had no effective government and Welsh laws and administration were replaced by the English. The Welsh saw this as an annexation of their country.

 

 

The cross represented in each flag is named after the patron saint of each country: St. George, patron saint of England, St. Andrew, patron saint of Scotland and St. Patrick, patron saint of Ireland.

 

The difference in the terms Great britain and the United Kingdom:

 

Great Britain

 

Great Britain is the largest island in Europe. "Great Britain" is the collective name for the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales. It also includes the small adjacent islands but it does not include the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

 

The term "Great Britain" came into being when England and Scotland became a single kingdom under King James VI of Scotland who also became King James I of England, after the death of Queen Elizabeth I in 1603. It must be remembered, however, that this was not a political union but merely the union of the crowns of the two countries. Politically they were still two states, each with its own Parliament. Political union came about only during the reign of Queen Anne, in 1707. It was in this year that the Scottish Parliament assembled for the last time and the formal union of Parliaments was effected. It was on 1 May of that same year that the "United Kingdom of Great Britain" came into existence.

 

Under Edward I the conquest of Wales was completed and Wales was united to England under Henry VIII, the second monarch descended from the Welsh House of Tudor. This union was ratified by two Acts of Parliament in 1536 and again in 1543.

 

The adjective "British"

 

The adjective "British" is, of course, used in relation to Great Britain but there is also a common tendency to use it when referring to issues relating to both Great Britain and the United Kingdom. This is inaccurate and from a legal point of view erroneous.

 

Sometimes, however, in legislation the term "British" is used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole, especially in matters relating to the question of nationality.

 

The United Kingdom

 

The United Kingdom is made up of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The official name "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" came into use in 1922 after the constitution of the Irish Free State (1922-1937), the former name of the Republic of Ireland.

 

The whole of Ireland had been united to Great Britain by an Act of Parliament in 1800 and which took effect in January 1801. However, this union had never been popular in Ireland and became the target of Irish Nationalist leaders ever since. The union of the whole of Ireland with Great Britain lasted until the constitution of the Irish Free State. The Treaty that sanctioned the separation laid down that the six counties in the north should remain united to Great Britain hence constituting Northern Ireland, part of the United Kingdom but not part of Great Britain.

 

Therefore, the United Kingdom of Great Britain, used to indicate the political union of England, Scotland and Wales, was expanded, in the 20th century, to include Northern Ireland: the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" as it now appears on passports.

 

When speaking of the United Kingdom and its constituent parts it is important to use the correct terminology. In 1969 the Royal Commission on the Constitution was set up with the aim of examining the relation between central legislature and government on one hand and the "several countries, nations and regions of the United Kingdom" on the other. The words "countries", "nations" and "regions" reveal a certain vagueness which was eventually resolved by the Report of the Commission.

 

The Isle of Man and the Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey are not part of Great Britain, they are not part of the United Kingdom and neither are they part of the European Union. They are self-governing British Crown dependencies.

 

The British Islands

 

The expression "British Islands" has been defined in the Interpretation Act 1978 as meaning the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. The Republic of Ireland is not included in this definition.

 

 

 

 

 

The British Isles

 

The expression "British Isles" is geographical and not political. They are a group of islands off the northwest coast of Europe consisting of Great Britain, the whole of Ireland, the Orkney and Shetland Islands, the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Isle of Wight, the Scilly Islands, Lundy Island, the Channel Islands and many other smaller

islands.

 

Tom

Edited March 17, 2009 by Foxgun Tom

[Swampy 147]

aaah!! the union flag, a symbol of a United Kingdom a bit strange, there is no reference to Wales or Northern Ireland on it? so much for unity? it seems us Scots and English are more equal than the others?

 

Swampy say's "Nice to see people calling it the union flag and not the union jack."

 

The Union Flag, popularly known as the *Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom. It is the British flag.

 

It is called the Union Flag because it symbolises the administrative union of the countries of the United Kingdom. It was made up up of the individual Flags of three of the Kingdom's countries all united under one Sovereign - the countries of 'England, of 'Scotland' and of 'Ireland' (since 1921 only Northern Ireland has been part of the United Kingdom). As Wales was not a Kingdom but a Principality it could not be included on the flag.

 

The Tudor dynasty was descended from the Welsh adventurer Owen Tudor (c. 1400-1461). Wales had already been conquered by Edward I and the conquest was sealed with the Statute of Rhuddlan, also known as the Statute of Wales, in 1284. In the first half of the sixteenth century, under the reign of Henry VIII, acts of union were passed and Wales sent representatives to the English Parliament. After the union of the two countries Wales had no effective government and Welsh laws and administration were replaced by the English. The Welsh saw this as an annexation of their country.

 

 

The cross represented in each flag is named after the patron saint of each country: St. George, patron saint of England, St. Andrew, patron saint of Scotland and St. Patrick, patron saint of Ireland.

 

The difference in the terms Great britain and the United Kingdom:

 

Great Britain

 

Great Britain is the largest island in Europe. "Great Britain" is the collective name for the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales. It also includes the small adjacent islands but it does not include the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

 

The term "Great Britain" came into being when England and Scotland became a single kingdom under King James VI of Scotland who also became King James I of England, after the death of Queen Elizabeth I in 1603. It must be remembered, however, that this was not a political union but merely the union of the crowns of the two countries. Politically they were still two states, each with its own Parliament. Political union came about only during the reign of Queen Anne, in 1707. It was in this year that the Scottish Parliament assembled for the last time and the formal union of Parliaments was effected. It was on 1 May of that same year that the "United Kingdom of Great Britain" came into existence.

 

Under Edward I the conquest of Wales was completed and Wales was united to England under Henry VIII, the second monarch descended from the Welsh House of Tudor. This union was ratified by two Acts of Parliament in 1536 and again in 1543.

 

The adjective "British"

 

The adjective "British" is, of course, used in relation to Great Britain but there is also a common tendency to use it when referring to issues relating to both Great Britain and the United Kingdom. This is inaccurate and from a legal point of view erroneous.

 

Sometimes, however, in legislation the term "British" is used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole, especially in matters relating to the question of nationality.

 

The United Kingdom

 

The United Kingdom is made up of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The official name "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" came into use in 1922 after the constitution of the Irish Free State (1922-1937), the former name of the Republic of Ireland.

 

The whole of Ireland had been united to Great Britain by an Act of Parliament in 1800 and which took effect in January 1801. However, this union had never been popular in Ireland and became the target of Irish Nationalist leaders ever since. The union of the whole of Ireland with Great Britain lasted until the constitution of the Irish Free State. The Treaty that sanctioned the separation laid down that the six counties in the north should remain united to Great Britain hence constituting Northern Ireland, part of the United Kingdom but not part of Great Britain.

 

Therefore, the United Kingdom of Great Britain, used to indicate the political union of England, Scotland and Wales, was expanded, in the 20th century, to include Northern Ireland: the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" as it now appears on passports.

 

When speaking of the United Kingdom and its constituent parts it is important to use the correct terminology. In 1969 the Royal Commission on the Constitution was set up with the aim of examining the relation between central legislature and government on one hand and the "several countries, nations and regions of the United Kingdom" on the other. The words "countries", "nations" and "regions" reveal a certain vagueness which was eventually resolved by the Report of the Commission.

 

The Isle of Man and the Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey are not part of Great Britain, they are not part of the United Kingdom and neither are they part of the European Union. They are self-governing British Crown dependencies.

 

The British Islands

 

The expression "British Islands" has been defined in the Interpretation Act 1978 as meaning the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. The Republic of Ireland is not included in this definition.

 

 

 

 

 

The British Isles

 

The expression "British Isles" is geographical and not political. They are a group of islands off the northwest coast of Europe consisting of Great Britain, the whole of Ireland, the Orkney and Shetland Islands, the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Isle of Wight, the Scilly Islands, Lundy Island, the Channel Islands and many other smaller

islands.

 

Tom

 

I mentioned the Union flag as opposed to the Union jack as there is a distinct difference. Not in appearance or meaning but in the manner in which it is flown. It is only a Union jack when flown from the jack mast of a ship.

Thats All

 

 

 

Not nining but ears bleeding

[ferret15 0]

my other half is in his twelth year. iraq, afgan (twice), two years northern ireland.

another reason why there were no problems at the last parade was because there were 40 uniformed royal anglians standing in the croud :weight_lift2: sent up from pirbright as a show of respect.

[Swampy 147]

my other half is in his twelth year. iraq, afgan (twice), two years northern ireland.

another reason why there were no problems at the last parade was because there were 40 uniformed royal anglians standing in the croud :weight_lift2: sent up from pirbright as a show of respect.

 

 

Good on 'em!

 

Swampy

 

 

 

Nining for the country

[Buch 145]

I also believe quite honestly that some in the UK have no understanding of what being a Scot is? or what Scotland means to us? we have Scots Sikhs, Jews Pakistani's, Chinese Italians, you ask them what they are, they'll say Scots first! Chinese or Pakistani second!!! they seem to have a great deal of pride referring to themselves as Scottish that experiment takes place all the time. Why don't other people of different ethnic backgrounds feel the same about other parts of the UK?

Do you have understanding of what its like to be a "Northerner", "Liverpudlian", from Pompey, ect ect ect? I guess not. I guess you dont realy realise these other local "traditions" exist. I, for instance, see myself as being more of a northerner then english. A good mate of mine is iranian by decent but is practicaly covered in england tats. Scotland is nothing soecial on this front. Your entitled to you wish for independance and i for one wouldnt want any one who doesnt want to be "British" (see the muslim protesters) in this country of ours. But for you to imply that your feelings of local pride what ever are more important/misunderstood/ignored gets my back up.

 

By the way this post is not meant to be inflamitory.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Buch

[Foxgun Tom 75]

Buch say's

"Your entitled to you wish for independance and i for one wouldnt want any one who doesnt want to be "British" (see the muslim protesters) in this country of ours. But for you to imply that your feelings of local pride what ever are more important/misunderstood/ignored gets my back up."

 

To compare feelings Countrywide pride (Scottish) not local pride and views of Scottish Nationalism, against Muslim religeous extremists, zealots and supporters of terrorisim is way off the mark We also differ on a few fundamentals here: your obviously an English person who believes he's British first and foremost absolutly feck all wrong with that I'm a Scot who believes hes a Scot and not British, my earlier posts in this thread explains why if you'ld bothered to read it? The definition of "this country of ours" means the complete opposite too both of us. Being Scottish is'nt a local tradition it defines who I am! my culture my history, language and education are all different from yours Your mate of Iranian decent is he of English birth if so he has every right to portray his englishness by getting covered in England tattos it shows a sense of pride in the country

 

If your mate of Iranian decent can display his nationalistic feelings towards England, why can't a Scot born in Scotland who speaks Gaelic, has a long family history, Clan history express the same sentiment without getting your back up is it because like Da Ali G "IS It BECAUSE I IS MISUNDERSTOOD"

 

Tom

[droid 11]

This all assumes that all Scots are a homogeneous entity.

 

They aren't.

The Lowland Scots are different from the Highland Scots, and both are different from those that come from the north east of Scotland who are more Scandinavian in origin and culture.

 

Not as mongrel as the English though, I'll grant that.