Lurchers I.Q??

[Kye 77]

Seen a few comment on here about Lurchers being smart etc...especially Collie hybrids.

Just curious as to how smart a running dog HAS to be?...ive seen great Collie cross'...dogs that are just in the right place at the right time..ALL the time!..lol.

They know what hole the rabbits/fox is gonna bolt from, they stalk the beam, not wasting energy, blazing up on sitters on the lamp and all that..

My old collie cross, if we wanted a decent run, we had to put him on a slip when ferreting..otherwise he would catch them within 10 yards of the hole!..lol.

 

But ive seen OTHER types do all that as well...saluki hybrids, Bull cross'...even my Stags will stalk the beam!...and they are realy just slip and kill types...although i have used them for HUNTING and not just coursing...

 

IMO, a dog that behaves in that manner (running cunning, stalking the lamp, boxing hares, and what have you) its NOT down to breeding, but more down to exsposure to game...

 

Ive seen Ex-Track Greyhounds stalk the beam, and even carry back rabbits...and Bull x's stand and guard the exact right holes in big places waiting for foxs to bolt...but these dogs where out nearly every day in the season...and they loose that "quarry mad" thing, and just settle down and do there job, not acting like nob heads..

Likewise ive seen Collie hybrids blow themselves out on hares that NO dog could have caught...but they are rarly taken out of the kennel

 

So why do hunters NEED a dog that clever?...half herding dog...im sure quite a few lads have seen dogs bred that way refuse to run rabbits on the lamp that are to close to hedge rows...then another dog is slipped, and panicked the rabbit into running up and down the hedge, or into the field and the dog makes a catch etc...

 

I LOVE Collie cross'..always will, always have done...but, for the average hunter, who does the average amount of work, why do you need all that brain?...

 

IMO, the smarter the dog, the more likly it is to chuck the towl in when it gets tough..especially when it comes to toothed game...this isnt ALWAYS the case.. i know that...ive seen Collie Cross' smash fox's...but could they take it if thats all they hunted, and they had to take 4-6 in a week?..single handed?...or would they be game enough (or maybe DUMB enough??) to chase a hare given 100 yards head start?..

 

Im NOT knocking Collie hybrids guys...if i lived in the UK again, and i wanted a Lurcher, i would want some collie blood in there...but i would only want a 1/4 at the most, maybe even 1/8th...it would be made up of other things, but a little Collie goes a LONG way...just like if you use proper Bull blood, you dont need mass' of it...imo..

 

Be good to hear some sensible replys, and get a good thread going on Lurcher IQ and how much do we rearly need in a running dog?..

 

Kye,..

[TOMO 26,408]

i was only thinking about this last week Kye and was going to put it up as a thread, but couldnt be arsed,

 

anyway you have wrote it better than i would .

 

i also agree i have seen all types using there head with no colie blood,

in my opinion you dont need that much brain to catch other animals just INSTINCT

 

ITS NOT ROCKET SIENCE

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Kye- You seem to have answered your own thread mate

IMO the more sight hound in the mix , the longer it will stay hunting a particular quarry eg fox .

The 3/4 is best at this as lurcher to lurcher seems to lose some of the willingness to engage the biteback stuff.Some first crosses,having had a season or 2 of mixed quarry show a distint preference for fox ,even when slipped on a rabbit and a pair of eyes is seen at the side of the beam.The bull cross is a good example of this in that it only takes a whiff of fox scent whilst rabbitting for the dog to be off.The herd/gundog mixes to a lurcher , are not fox killers and cant be expected to add any gameness to a lurcher .The terrier breeds however are well up for a scrap and mixed with the sight hound ,another game animal,the right attributes are there for a lifelong wedding to fox .Collie crosses do learn to respect a fox in time and some will jib.If your main quarry is rabbit and the odd fox then a collie cross is ideal but for the specialist then a specialist lurcher is needed.

[colliejohn 840]

Seen a few comment on here about Lurchers being smart etc...especially Collie hybrids.

Just curious as to how smart a running dog HAS to be?...ive seen great Collie cross'...dogs that are just in the right place at the right time..ALL the time!..lol.

They know what hole the rabbits/fox is gonna bolt from, they stalk the beam, not wasting energy, blazing up on sitters on the lamp and all that..

My old collie cross, if we wanted a decent run, we had to put him on a slip when ferreting..otherwise he would catch them within 10 yards of the hole!..lol.

 

But ive seen OTHER types do all that as well...saluki hybrids, Bull cross'...even my Stags will stalk the beam!...and they are realy just slip and kill types...although i have used them for HUNTING and not just coursing...

 

IMO, a dog that behaves in that manner (running cunning, stalking the lamp, boxing hares, and what have you) its NOT down to breeding, but more down to exsposure to game...

 

Ive seen Ex-Track Greyhounds stalk the beam, and even carry back rabbits...and Bull x's stand and guard the exact right holes in big places waiting for foxs to bolt...but these dogs where out nearly every day in the season...and they loose that "quarry mad" thing, and just settle down and do there job, not acting like nob heads..

Likewise ive seen Collie hybrids blow themselves out on hares that NO dog could have caught...but they are rarly taken out of the kennel

 

So why do hunters NEED a dog that clever?...half herding dog...im sure quite a few lads have seen dogs bred that way refuse to run rabbits on the lamp that are to close to hedge rows...then another dog is slipped, and panicked the rabbit into running up and down the hedge, or into the field and the dog makes a catch etc...

 

I LOVE Collie cross'..always will, always have done...but, for the average hunter, who does the average amount of work, why do you need all that brain?...

 

IMO, the smarter the dog, the more likly it is to chuck the towl in when it gets tough..especially when it comes to toothed game...this isnt ALWAYS the case.. i know that...ive seen Collie Cross' smash fox's...but could they take it if thats all they hunted, and they had to take 4-6 in a week?..single handed?...or would they be game enough (or maybe DUMB enough??) to chase a hare given 100 yards head start?..

 

Im NOT knocking Collie hybrids guys...if i lived in the UK again, and i wanted a Lurcher, i would want some collie blood in there...but i would only want a 1/4 at the most, maybe even 1/8th...it would be made up of other things, but a little Collie goes a LONG way...just like if you use proper Bull blood, you dont need mass' of it...imo..

 

Be good to hear some sensible replys, and get a good thread going on Lurcher IQ and how much do we rearly need in a running dog?..

 

Kye,..

people have the wrong idea when it comes to collie greyhounds,i own a typp ratcher bred three quarter fell collie a quarter greyhound bitch which stands at 20.5 inches at the shoulder.this bitch is clever,but she is game, she has pulled many a rabbit and hares out of hedge bottoms has no fear of cover is a excellent day dog with bags of stamina and is a excellent lamper who cuts rabbits of hedgerows,by going out of the beam, has ample speed to catch hares of which she as had forty in two seasons.it just depends on the type of collie you use,your better using a proper working farm or hill dog collie,rather than a trial or agility collies which are like robots.the collie make up in my bitch, are fell collies which can be traced back years.if you get the right breeding in my opinion you cant beat a collie greyhound. regards collie john.

[juckler123 707]

The sighthound blood gives the hunting ability ive seen greyhounds that were as good as most lurchers and as game i think kye is right exposure to watever you are hunting will make them proficient and if you daytime,lamp and ferret the dogs will soon do all three imo the worst thing to do with a lurcher is overtrain it to the point where it not do a thing without looking at you first they should have their own mind i dont overtrain as long as they carry jump and come when called that does me ive seen two dogs in my life that were living wild one for over two years and both these were pure greyhound i had one of them after a plasterer had caught it in a building where it was getting a warm as they were drying the plaster off with heaters this bitch had a back like a table top and this was in an area where dogs were hard put to take a rabbit in the daytime after id had it three months i took it out it stood on its back legs to look down the field spotted a rabbit feeding stalked it like a cat a couple yards dash and it was all over she swallowed the lot! she went on to be a diamond at hares and for what ever reason she wouldnt eat em just bring em back point being this was an escaped track dog never been shown the game i think myself the addition of collie was of more use when dogs were working with gate and long nets and had to herd the rabbits to the nets and not tackle out i would say this is the only time training to a high standard is required otherwise any dog with a good amount of greyhound in it that is large and lean enough should do and as regards to catching hares run off slips on the fens thats more a job for a saluki imo the lurcher should hunt their hares giving the dog a better chance ive seen some belting fox dogs of all crosses and one or two purebreds that were good too. as for lamping only i do like slower dogs on the lamp half crosses dont seem to get smashed up as much running in the dark and have more stamina but thats just my opinion to me the hunting abillity comes from the sighthound

[Guest stantheman]

the colliex gr. is the real lurcher the poachers dog agood all rounder ,the rest are longdogs.

[red merle 0]

I would say that collie blood in a lurcher is ideal to create a brilliant lurcher their intelligence makes training them a lot easier and when tackling fox have a tendancy to pin them by the neck, avoiding any bites they might have received. Collies have an urge to please their masters so it makes retrieving easier. On a whole i think that a good portion of intelligence is required in to make a succesful all-rounder.

[pegandgun 52]

Ive had two 1st crosses of Typp Ratcher and both where as game as any lurcher.They retrieved to the shot gun and would tackle anything anywhere.They where excellent lamping dogs as well

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

.

 

Kye,..

people have the wrong idea when it comes to collie greyhounds,i own a typp ratcher bred three quarter fell collie a quarter greyhound bitch which stands at 20.5 inches at the shoulder.this bitch is clever,but she is game, she has pulled many a rabbit and hares out of hedge bottoms has no fear of cover is a excellent day dog with bags of stamina and is a excellent lamper who cuts rabbits of hedgerows,by going out of the beam, has ample speed to catch hares of which she as had forty in two seasons.it just depends on the type of collie you use,your better using a proper working farm or hill dog collie,rather than a trial or agility collies which are like robots.the collie make up in my bitch, are fell collies which can be traced back years.if you get the right breeding in my opinion you cant beat a collie greyhound. regards collie john.

 

Sorry mate but your idea of gameness in a lurcher is far from mine.ANY lurcher type should pull rabbit /hares from a hedge bottem.I agree that the collie type is a good allrounder but the brains gets in the way of making it a specialist fox killer.I all depends what you want out of a lurcher .For me, fox is the main target but the odd rabbit and hare as well as the long legs are taken so a bull x is spot on . For those intending to work mainly rabbit/hare as well as feather then the collie x is the way to go.

However the collie x does learn bad habits as fast as good ones,from what Ive seen,refusing to run rabbits too close to the hedge or too far away in daylight.They also learn quickly that a fox can be a handful and learn to be a bit cautious in tackling one ,something that has allowed more than one to get away .

The bullx is not blessed with this reasoning and the will to kill overides any other misconceptions it has.

Working with any types of nets ,the collie x comes into its own and soon learns to stand off a bit,only getting involved when anything slips the net .Ive found that the bullx would rather trash a net than miss out .

Horses for courses.-Foxdropper.

[juckler123 707]

Ive got to agree with the gameness of bullxs but to me they always seem to be smashed bad from the charlies perhaps thats not the case i got into fox lamping a few years back and used deerhound and collie blooded dogs in 70 odd kills neither dog had a mark on em they used to pick em up across the withers and shake feck out of em one of the dogs never even bothered finishing em off retrieving em still snarling [just] to hand theese dogs run single handed never doubled up perhaps i was just lucky but i must admit one of the dogs did quit after a fox locked over his muzzel and he couldnt get it off till i got up to him but this was his 47th charlie i dont bother fox anymore as i couldnt sell em and the pelts were always ruined but as i said at the beginning for gameness its obviously bull cross and plenty of TCP

[Kane 2]

Ive got to agree with the gameness of bullxs but to me they always seem to be smashed bad from the charlies perhaps thats not the case i got into fox lamping a few years back and used deerhound and collie blooded dogs in 70 odd kills neither dog had a mark on em they used to pick em up across the withers and shake feck out of em one of the dogs never even bothered finishing em off retrieving em still snarling [just] to hand theese dogs run single handed never doubled up perhaps i was just lucky but i must admit one of the dogs did quit after a fox locked over his muzzel and he couldnt get it off till i got up to him but this was his 47th charlie i dont bother fox anymore as i couldnt sell em and the pelts were always ruined but as i said at the beginning for gameness its obviously bull cross and plenty of TCP

 

 

70 foxes retrieved live to hand and not a mark on them :whistle: :whistle:

What if the fox wasnt in a position to be grabbed by the withers I supose it got away.

Thats why a Bullx will get marked it wont let them get away even if its a bad hold and it means a bit of pain the bullx will grab withers or no withers.

 

As for collie IQ probably a decent trainer would get better results(obediance,retrieving respecting nets etc)with a decent colliex than they might expect with another type.I dont know if trainability = inteligence.Just as many collies get killed on the roads as other types.

[juckler123 707]