fox?

[Guest Rod&dog]

foxes only kill what they need

Those pictures remind me those early summer mornings when you dont want to be walking round all morning picking up dead birds when you could be at your next pen doing checks and getting on with the day,, Foxes need controlling,, Especially during those months.

[Deker 3,478]

Chaps, as you will have seen the pigeon plucker is only 13 and as he sees it there is no reason to hunt foxes. Fine. You are lucky, I'm a bit like that, never had to shoot a fox and the farmers who own the ground where I shoot have more problems with rabbits that foxes, so they have asked me to leave them.

 

Pigeon Plucker, foxes, like squirrels cache food when food is plentiful for when times are rough. That means that when they come across several new born lambs or an easily accesible pheasant pen or during wild bird nesting season (waders/gamebirds/hen harriers i.e. ground nesters), they kill and take more than they would eat.

 

In a pheasant/chicken pen situation this means they get into the pen, kill everything, take what they can carry and then come back again. Problem is by then the farmer/keeper has turned up and they cant come back. But it was caught on camera and was on TV, Attenborough narrated it I think. Try YouTube?

 

There is an argument for not killing all foxes, on the long term they are mostly territorial and it is possible to change the behaviour of local foxes from taking lambs and young pheasants or chickens and only shoot non-territorial foxes passing through. Difficult but possible.

 

The problem is that it only takes one fox to change its' behaviour to cause a £1000 worth of damage!

 

An alternative way to deal with the "potential" damage is to kill any foxes on your land at particular times of the year, and have marginal control when it is less important. This is what most land managers do.

 

The last point is about balance. By introducing Rabbits to the UK (and most of Europe) from Spain, the romans have done the rest of the fauna a great dis-service. Rabbit populations allow fox populations to increase, all else being equal. When foxes should decline during hard winters or when rodent populations crash (every 5 -11 years) the fox populations should crash. But as Rabbit populations only have a 3 year cycle, if a cycle exists, the foxes don't decrease in number when the rodents crash, they can switch to a plentiful supply of rabbit. Combine this with 50 million gamebirds released in the UK every year and you have a lot of reasons why Humans have screwed up the balance of fox population dynamics. Concentrate gamebirds or poultry in high densities each spring and guess what, the foxes sniff them out! Fences cant work with game birds as you have to release them into the wild when they stay concentrated right through the summer.

 

Interestingly, despite all the fox control there is no evidence that the population is in any form of decline (they can take the hunting pressure, its sustainable).

 

I hope this helps you to understand why sometimes, fox control is either necessary or easier, when it comes to protecting Human interests, whether that be financial or sporting(fun) or both.

 

As for the chaps who actually sent you threats, dont worry about them, hopefully they will now send you new messages to apologise now they realise you are only 13 and your views, like everyone else's, are a consequence of your personal experience. Which is valid and welcome!

 

Best wishes

 

Tom

 

The Fox seldom if ever leaves anything he kills, he is sometimes disturbed and not able to retrieve all his kills..simple as!!

 

This is all too often interpreted as... he just kills for fun!!

Edited February 10, 2009 by Deker

[Yokel Matt 918]

Ok, he's only 13. IMO he should be using THL as a knowledge center - not spouting this kind of rubbish to mix the place up. The phrase to 'be seen and not heard' springs to mind.

[bignoel 14]

SALE ON chicken wire buy by the acre it is cheaper fitting possible 4 acre's surplied and fitted £18000 or a 243 bullet £1 a shot FOX CONTROL .farmer's choice

[tom1cameron 1]

Ok, he's only 13. IMO he should be using THL as a knowledge center - not spouting this kind of rubbish to mix the place up. The phrase to 'be seen and not heard' springs to mind.

 

Completely disagree, this is a forum not a communist party, therefore all opinions are welcome as are all the responses to the chap, but not the personal insults or insulting PM's that he has recieved. There are two results here, one is that some pillocks have sent some seriously offensive material, which could be illegal, to a 13 year old (IMO given what can be read or seen on this site under 16's should not be allowed on here but I do not know how that can be achieved). The other is that this chap is not 13, perhaps as some have said he is an anti, well now some pillocks have given this anti some information on how they really treat 13 years olds who ask reasonable questions and make reasonable statements for a 13 year old boy. I believe he is a young lad and not a disguised anti.

 

Given the disgust we had at the recent barnardo's campaign, and given our response on how our community supports the youth who are interested in fieldsports, I find it unhelpful that 1/, under 16's have access to all of this site, and 2/ that we have people who use this site that are too feckless to check who they are speaking to before they send attacking and insulting PM's

 

Sorry for getting hot about this but I take a lot of pride in my sport and this forum and therefore to hear what has happened to this young chap disgusts me.

[Yokel Matt 918]

Ok, fair play, I don't think that abusive PM's are ever called for and i'm all for debate.

 

However, its been seen time and time again that people who put up unconstructive topics slegding other methods of control stirs up a hornets nest. Now this is bad enough when it comes from some old enough to know better - i'm sorry but i've got no time for jack-sprat messers trying to get themselves into a the clique of people who either have no time for other peoples pursuits or think their own 'experiance' (however limited) makes them right and everyone else wrong.

[JPTfellterrier 65]

is this topic still going? think its time to end it the poor young lad made a mistake hes only 13 so you lot could have politley educated him on the matter (which some of you have) but as per usual the d*ck head patrole homed in on the topic and went crackers....and now the poor lad is getting all sorts of abusive PM's and rude replys, he was only asking a question

 

even if he was anti hunt, which he isnt, do you really think being abusive to a anti is going to do anyone any favours? its only going to make them more of a pain in the ass...i have spoken to many anti hunts and the convosation always ends up with them basically saying i dont agree with it but i see your side of things and i can understand the need, were as they your 100% anti before.

[Deker 3,478]

is this topic still going? think its time to end it the poor young lad made a mistake hes only 13 so you lot could have politley educated him on the matter (which some of you have) but as per usual the d*ck head patrole homed in on the topic and went crackers....and now the poor lad is getting all sorts of abusive PM's and rude replys, he was only asking a question

 

even if he was anti hunt, which he isnt, do you really think being abusive to a anti is going to do anyone any favours? its only going to make them more of a pain in the ass...i have spoken to many anti hunts and the convosation always ends up with them basically saying i dont agree with it but i see your side of things and i can understand the need, were as they your 100% anti before.

 

We are wondering into areas nothing to do with shooting..problem with Open Forums is anybody can ask any question, and anyone can respond in any way they want

 

Time to move on I think!!

[sauer 2]

Ok, he's only 13. IMO he should be using THL as a knowledge center - not spouting this kind of rubbish to mix the place up. The phrase to 'be seen and not heard' springs to mind.

 

Completely disagree, this is a forum not a communist party, therefore all opinions are welcome as are all the responses to the chap, but not the personal insults or insulting PM's that he has recieved. There are two results here, one is that some pillocks have sent some seriously offensive material, which could be illegal, to a 13 year old (IMO given what can be read or seen on this site under 16's should not be allowed on here but I do not know how that can be achieved). The other is that this chap is not 13, perhaps as some have said he is an anti, well now some pillocks have given this anti some information on how they really treat 13 years olds who ask reasonable questions and make reasonable statements for a 13 year old boy. I believe he is a young lad and not a disguised anti.

 

Given the disgust we had at the recent barnardo's campaign, and given our response on how our community supports the youth who are interested in fieldsports, I find it unhelpful that 1/, under 16's have access to all of this site, and 2/ that we have people who use this site that are too feckless to check who they are speaking to before they send attacking and insulting PM's

 

Sorry for getting hot about this but I take a lot of pride in my sport and this forum and therefore to hear what has happened to this young chap disgusts me.

 

 

 

i totally agree with tom here

im guilty as anyone for reading posts and not checking the profile of the reader.....

naivety maybe ...he was only 13!!!!

 

but pm's that he has recieved like that are completely out of order and will not help us at all as a community for which we are all part of and love...hunting and its various forms!!!

lets not give the ntis or anyone else for that matter any ammunition to use against us!!!

 

sauer

[steviebhoy 0]

Chaps, as you will have seen the pigeon plucker is only 13 and as he sees it there is no reason to hunt foxes. Fine. You are lucky, I'm a bit like that, never had to shoot a fox and the farmers who own the ground where I shoot have more problems with rabbits that foxes, so they have asked me to leave them.

 

Pigeon Plucker, foxes, like squirrels cache food when food is plentiful for when times are rough. That means that when they come across several new born lambs or an easily accesible pheasant pen or during wild bird nesting season (waders/gamebirds/hen harriers i.e. ground nesters), they kill and take more than they would eat.

 

In a pheasant/chicken pen situation this means they get into the pen, kill everything, take what they can carry and then come back again. Problem is by then the farmer/keeper has turned up and they cant come back. But it was caught on camera and was on TV, Attenborough narrated it I think. Try YouTube?

 

There is an argument for not killing all foxes, on the long term they are mostly territorial and it is possible to change the behaviour of local foxes from taking lambs and young pheasants or chickens and only shoot non-territorial foxes passing through. Difficult but possible.

 

The problem is that it only takes one fox to change its' behaviour to cause a £1000 worth of damage!

 

An alternative way to deal with the "potential" damage is to kill any foxes on your land at particular times of the year, and have marginal control when it is less important. This is what most land managers do.

 

The last point is about balance. By introducing Rabbits to the UK (and most of Europe) from Spain, the romans have done the rest of the fauna a great dis-service. Rabbit populations allow fox populations to increase, all else being equal. When foxes should decline during hard winters or when rodent populations crash (every 5 -11 years) the fox populations should crash. But as Rabbit populations only have a 3 year cycle, if a cycle exists, the foxes don't decrease in number when the rodents crash, they can switch to a plentiful supply of rabbit. Combine this with 50 million gamebirds released in the UK every year and you have a lot of reasons why Humans have screwed up the balance of fox population dynamics. Concentrate gamebirds or poultry in high densities each spring and guess what, the foxes sniff them out! Fences cant work with game birds as you have to release them into the wild when they stay concentrated right through the summer.

 

Interestingly, despite all the fox control there is no evidence that the population is in any form of decline (they can take the hunting pressure, its sustainable).

 

I hope this helps you to understand why sometimes, fox control is either necessary or easier, when it comes to protecting Human interests, whether that be financial or sporting(fun) or both.

 

As for the chaps who actually sent you threats, dont worry about them, hopefully they will now send you new messages to apologise now they realise you are only 13 and your views, like everyone else's, are a consequence of your personal experience. Which is valid and welcome!

 

Best wishes

 

Tom

 

The Fox seldom if ever leaves anything he kills, he is sometimes disturbed and not able to retrieve all his kills..simple as!!

 

This is all too often interpreted as... he just kills for fun!!

Although i am well and truly pissed off with the post still lingering around i find it hard to believe that some people just cant come to terms with a fox killing just for the sake of it. We all know that if all the birds killed were left where the died that the fox would return for a feed but this does not explain why the Badger, stoat, weasel and birds of prey dont act in the same way when faced with a pen of easy targets. All have young to feed but chose to take a few and return and try again.

[aaronpigeonplucker 32]

.......

[cyclonebri1 8]

.......

 

Aaron, I haven't reads every post on this, BUT I understand you seem to have been subjected to offensive PMs etc. This shouldn't happen, it's inexcusable to hide behind the ambiguity of the net. That said it was picked up much earlier that how you 1st say a thing can set the tone for what eventually becomes a slanging match.

 

Let me just add one of my experiences that may be of benefit to you.

 

The very 1st farm I had sole permission on was a dairy and arable farm, about 400 acres belonged to a distant relative from a church going background. I was allowed to shoot pigeon, crow, rats and doves around the farm, infact everything that actually caused him a problem. The one thing he specifically told me to leave alone was the fox population, he had no chickens,geese or sheep so presented him with no issues.

 

This was fine the fox population grew, the kids at the local school on one boundary used to feed them from the playground, they seemed to know they were in no danger.

 

But they got too many and too bold, they wiped out chicken sheds, pet rabbits, banties and geese on surrounding homes and small holdings. Not just at night but in broard daylight.

 

They had to be dealt with and 2 of us with the farmers and most of the neighbours permissions set about reducing their numbers. You cant create a haven for foxes without it creating real problems for others.

[Guest Mass_G3nocide]

.......

 

Aaron, I haven't reads every post on this, BUT I understand you seem to have been subjected to offensive PMs etc. This shouldn't happen, it's inexcusable to hide behind the ambiguity of the net. That said it was picked up much earlier that how you 1st say a thing can set the tone for what eventually becomes a slanging match.

 

Let me just add one of my experiences that may be of benefit to you.

 

The very 1st farm I had sole permission on was a dairy and arable farm, about 400 acres belonged to a distant relative from a church going background. I was allowed to shoot pigeon, crow, rats and doves around the farm, infact everything that actually caused him a problem. The one thing he specifically told me to leave alone was the fox population, he had no chickens,geese or sheep so presented him with no issues.

 

This was fine the fox population grew, the kids at the local school on one boundary used to feed them from the playground, they seemed to know they were in no danger.

 

But they got too many and too bold, they wiped out chicken sheds, pet rabbits, banties and geese on surrounding homes and small holdings. Not just at night but in broard daylight.

 

They had to be dealt with and 2 of us with the farmers and most of the neighbours permissions set about reducing their numbers. You cant create a haven for foxes without it creating real problems for others.

 

 

 

 

Fox need controlling simple as.Nice story.

[Deker 3,478]

Chaps, as you will have seen the pigeon plucker is only 13 and as he sees it there is no reason to hunt foxes. Fine. You are lucky, I'm a bit like that, never had to shoot a fox and the farmers who own the ground where I shoot have more problems with rabbits that foxes, so they have asked me to leave them.

 

Pigeon Plucker, foxes, like squirrels cache food when food is plentiful for when times are rough. That means that when they come across several new born lambs or an easily accesible pheasant pen or during wild bird nesting season (waders/gamebirds/hen harriers i.e. ground nesters), they kill and take more than they would eat.

 

In a pheasant/chicken pen situation this means they get into the pen, kill everything, take what they can carry and then come back again. Problem is by then the farmer/keeper has turned up and they cant come back. But it was caught on camera and was on TV, Attenborough narrated it I think. Try YouTube?

 

There is an argument for not killing all foxes, on the long term they are mostly territorial and it is possible to change the behaviour of local foxes from taking lambs and young pheasants or chickens and only shoot non-territorial foxes passing through. Difficult but possible.

 

The problem is that it only takes one fox to change its' behaviour to cause a £1000 worth of damage!

 

An alternative way to deal with the "potential" damage is to kill any foxes on your land at particular times of the year, and have marginal control when it is less important. This is what most land managers do.

 

The last point is about balance. By introducing Rabbits to the UK (and most of Europe) from Spain, the romans have done the rest of the fauna a great dis-service. Rabbit populations allow fox populations to increase, all else being equal. When foxes should decline during hard winters or when rodent populations crash (every 5 -11 years) the fox populations should crash. But as Rabbit populations only have a 3 year cycle, if a cycle exists, the foxes don't decrease in number when the rodents crash, they can switch to a plentiful supply of rabbit. Combine this with 50 million gamebirds released in the UK every year and you have a lot of reasons why Humans have screwed up the balance of fox population dynamics. Concentrate gamebirds or poultry in high densities each spring and guess what, the foxes sniff them out! Fences cant work with game birds as you have to release them into the wild when they stay concentrated right through the summer.

 

Interestingly, despite all the fox control there is no evidence that the population is in any form of decline (they can take the hunting pressure, its sustainable).

 

I hope this helps you to understand why sometimes, fox control is either necessary or easier, when it comes to protecting Human interests, whether that be financial or sporting(fun) or both.

 

As for the chaps who actually sent you threats, dont worry about them, hopefully they will now send you new messages to apologise now they realise you are only 13 and your views, like everyone else's, are a consequence of your personal experience. Which is valid and welcome!

 

Best wishes

 

Tom

 

The Fox seldom if ever leaves anything he kills, he is sometimes disturbed and not able to retrieve all his kills..simple as!!

 

This is all too often interpreted as... he just kills for fun!!

Although i am well and truly pissed off with the post still lingering around i find it hard to believe that some people just cant come to terms with a fox killing just for the sake of it. We all know that if all the birds killed were left where the died that the fox would return for a feed but this does not explain why the Badger, stoat, weasel and birds of prey dont act in the same way when faced with a pen of easy targets. All have young to feed but chose to take a few and return and try again.

 

Chap ...you have made a value judgement based on the lowest situation...has it not occured to you that other animals don't have the sence/brains to stock the larder...is it not VERY sensible when you find food to kill it all, take it away and keep what you can't eat for later, especially as the fox has a cast iron stomach and is as much at home eating rotting, maggot riddled meat as he is fresh kills, ....how can you make a value judgement on the fox saying this is killing for the sake of it...sounds like a clever and shrewd thing to do...

 

And just to set the record straight the Fox does not always kill everything, I have been involved in several situations where the likes of chicken have steadily been removed over a period!!

 

Worth thinking about...!!

[Guest Mass_G3nocide]

I think fox's are alot clever than people give them credit for if you read Rohl Doal's Fantastic mr Fox you will know what i mean....Very clever shrewd little bugger's Like my old nan.