Maybe I should post this here??

[Guest EWOK]

To all;

 

I've read this site a few times and have enjoyed the talk, I live in eastern NC, USA and hunt deer with dogs. Up until last year I used fox walkers and july walkers but had a very bad time with a resident and his pit bulls, long story. Sold all my dogs but missed having hounds so now I have four plott pups that are 3-4 months old. I read were you do alot of obeidance training with your dogs, we here do very little of this. I've run dogs for about 15 years now and raise and run mine much like eveyone else here. We simply keep the pups in the pen till they are 6-7 months old and then take them to a fox pens for a week and then start turning them out after deer from then on, this seems to work well as far as the running goes but, at least as far as I'm concerned, the dogs lack discipline, some are hard to catch and stopping them from crossing a highway is next to impossible. I also have problems with dogs that bark while inside the dog box on my truck. I'd really like to make these pups different than my others and hope you could give me some advice on your the training, oh I don't like to beat a dog as some here have suggested, I believe that dogs, like women, if you have to beat them I don't want to be around them. Thanks for any help. EWOK

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Training starts with most of us from the moment the pup has its second jab[innoculations].Things like jumping up and crapping indoors can be stopped at an early age simply by chastising the pup verbaly as it misbehaves .I like to introduce a pup to what it can and cant chase when its confident and has adult teeth ,around 6 months.In the U.K we do not have the use or the need for artificial means of entering a dog,ie-fox pens ?I like to start a pup as an individual so it dosnt have to rely on the pack and can work alone.A trained dog is a must for us here as the law at the moment has changed regarding the running of quarry and we need to be able to stop dogs in the wrong places :ph34r:

Personally I have never beat a dog and to me it shows an owner who is way out of tune and impatient who does .No need. :realmad:

Basically spend some time, one to one with the pup and you will hopefully learn to read its habits as it will yours .Tone of voice is enough to train any dog .

Good luck with the hounds.

P.s. what are fox walkers and july walkers .

[Guest EWOK]

Thanks for the reply Foxdropper, what I call a fox walker looks like what I see on TV when they show the English fox hunts with dogs and horses, they are tall, slim, tri-colored and run fairly fast, there is a great number of these here used for fox trials were prizes and money are given for speed and drive, peasonally I don't care for this as the few I've seen looked largely unfair as it is graded by the order in which the dog crosses in front of the judges, placed at clearings through out the running area and if you have a dog that cuts,(tries to cut off the fox instead of running the track) then he'll be in frint most of the time. The fox walkers I had also had a touch of blue tick hound in them and this seemed to keep them on the track longer but for me they were alittle too fast which means they pushed the deer too hard and out of our hunting area before it was spotted. July walkers are alittle smaller and mostly black and tan in color, having a better nose than the fox walker and easier to handle but again some can be quite fast and hyper. I think the july is a mix of some type of trailing hound and walker but am not sure, coming from the mountain area. We have problems here with people living in the hunting area not liking the dog hunting and over the years I've had 2 dogs shot, one poisoned, and last year had one killed by a 3 pit bulls, then I killed the pit bulls, cost me about $2000 but they did try to attack me and the dog they killed was 12 years old and a good hunting partner. I sold all my dogs after that but my son bought these 4 Plott pups and now I'm raising them. Plotts are a breed of hound used mostly for bear and hog hunting and are known for their grit, not backing down from 5-600 pound bears and fighting till the death. They also are known to be hard headed and hard to train, but I feel any dog that is treated fairly and taken care of will come out ok. Dogs to me are like children and I don't beleive that a bad child is born but made that way. As I stated before training here of running dogs leaves alot out as far as I can see and most dogs spend most of their lives sitting in an outdoor pen with very little human contact. I have been chastized by fellow hunters here for spending to much time with my dogs as they think human handling makes a dog not run the quarry as hard. But I don't have as much trouble catching my dogs as they do either, I've seen dogs shot by the owner just because the dog will not be caught. Guess it's a different world here but that doesn't make it right. I'll keep spending time with mine and any suggestion that you have will be most welcomed. Now just how do you train your dogs to stop running as you said, this I've never been able to do and would be real handy when they cross into posted land.

[bullmastiff 615]

I've trained quite a few spaniel’s and just completed the training for my bully (if it ever finishes!!!) and in my opinion (lots of different ways to train a dog most end up with similar results) the main thing dog's need is patience and care, I'm not one of these reward based training people but common sense say's to praise good behaviour and punish bad (some people us verbal others use physical, each to their own). For basic training the first thing you've got to have is an enclosed area with no exciting smells or unfamiliar sights (traffic, people, game, etc) so your the centre of the dogs attention, English have it easy as most of us have tiny back gardens!!!. You can start as soon as you like as long as you keep it a game for the pup, spaniels, labs etc will naturally carry toys around with them so throw their toys around giving praise and treats when they start bringing it back to you to throw again, bull breeds are a bit different, they might fetch something the first time but they get bored quickly but try toys you can drag around behind you getting them to chase (whilst shouting fetch or get it or even kill!!), catch then let them 'rag' it before telling them to 'LEAVE' praising when they do,(treats always work!!!) take it away then start again make it easy to start with then build up to sharp turns and short throws. Around 6 month's (depends on breed) get a friend to help, get them running with the toy whilst telling the dog to ‘FETCH’, then try the dog on a lead saying 'LEAVE' treating it when it stays as the toys dragged passed (I use an old washing liquid bottle with stones inside and elastic bands to hold a rabbit skin to it, though you can attach any piece of animal skin you like). It's easy to get a dog to chase but harder to stop them! Progress to the dog sitting off the lead as the skins dragged passed, this is a good chance to change the skin for the real thing! Then send the dog in with your fetch command praising when it catches and ‘rags’ the rabbit. You should be able to alternate between sending the dog in and using the ‘LEAVE’ command to call it off.

Like I said it might be different from other peoples training methods but for me it was more a case of modifying spaniel training for a hard headed dog. Others might have better ideas or simpler methods. Their's a lot of good books out their teaching basic training. In England almost all hunting dogs are trained the basics (sit, stay, heel and return)

[Guest EWOK]

Thanks Bullmastiff, that makes good scents to me and have never heard of it, think I will close in a part of my backyard and use it to train the four pups as you said. I've had and seen dogs stand and look at their master at a distance when he calls and not respond to his command, this gets the temper up a bit, also we use tracking collars to locate the dogs and you know that they hear you but will not come, guess it takes time and constructive training to stop this. The problem with these type dogs is everyone seems to think it takes great numbers and if you have 10-30 dogs its hard to do much training with that many, I'm trying to stay small this time around and hopefully have an easier time hunting them. Maybe if the others see my dogs return on command and coming out of the woods and most of all stopping at the highway, they to will try some training and smaller numbers of hounds, by the way the hunting with horses and dogs that they show on TV, are all these dogs trained to stop the chase, just wondering because this is the only type of hunting that I've ever seen in England.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

" that makes good scents to me ".I like it

Packs of hounds are a different thing mate .Hounds are controlled over here with a horn and need to be aquainted with the whip ,that it stings.Young hounds learn from their elders as to what blast on the horn means what.