PELLET LUBE and Diesel Soaked Pellets!!

[fin and fur 2]

if you do go down the pellet lube route then be careful not to get pools of the lube forming in the pellets skirt recess

as this is when dieseling will occur, you will also find that this does nothing for pellet accuracy

i too have used the napier pellet lube and used to drip the lube over the pellets in the tin and put the lid on giving them a good shake

this was he cause of some lube getting into the pellets skirts

it is best if using such lubes to driop the lube into an empty tin and then add the pellets

 

Sorry mate,

 

Dieseling doesn't happen in the barrel it happens in the piston chamber, but your right about the lube in the empty tin first, that does work, lol, I only use lube on one of my rifles and that's the Gamo Shadow and the difference is quite a lot, Takes mine from 14.5 FPE to over 16.FPE, and has no adverse affects to my accuracy, so if your thinking of using any lube you best make sure you ain't going over to the dark side???

All the best,

 

Rob.

 

are you sure that dieseling cannot also occur in the barrel as well as the air chamber ?, in effect when the air passes into the barrel you are adding compressed air to the pellet lube in the pellets skirt in the barrel which inadvertantly diesels and acts as a propellant, i have noticed that when i have thumbed a pellet into the breech of my rifle and that pellet has suffered from a build up of pellet lube that the pellet leaves the barrel with a bang in a cloud of smoke, this has only happened when i have used a pellet with lube in the skirt, i think that the issue of dieseling only occuring in the air chamber came about in the days before pellet lubes were as commonly used as they are today and the lube between the piston and air chamber was the only lube that could be hald responsible for dieseling, some even encouraged this as they believed that it would enhance their rifles performance, however dieseling does nothing for accuracy and is best avoided, sorry mate i just dont buy it when you say that dieseling will only occer in the barrel, dieseling will occur either in the barrel when excessive pellet lube will be at fault or in the air chamber itself when the lube between the piston and the chamber wall is the cause, all you need is a lube that will ignite under pressure and in the case of pellet lube this will mean dieseling in the barrel

 

all the best

 

Fin and Fur

 

Sorry mate,

But the word and condition of dieseling is only to do with explosive combustion in the forward end of the air cylinder, on a spring powerd rifle,, its exactly the same as a deisel engine in a car,, working on trapped gases compressed to a very high pressure,, this cannot happen with the pellet because the propellant is always behind the pellet,, yes the gun will go bang and there will be a puff of smoke, but that has nothing to do with the word dieseling that we know,, this is why when we tune rifles we never allow oil forward of the front end of the piston, also if there was any possibility that lubing a pellet to the manufacturers instructions would cause damage to yours or my air rifles do you really think they would sell you it,,, I dont think so,, we used to wax, wash, and oil our pellets in the old days, and as far as I'm aware some of the best FT; and HFT shooters still do,, but this is only my opinion,, not a war,, lol,, all the best,

Rob..

 

Rob hi

 

i fully appreciate your opinion but i was lead to believe that the term dieseling related to combustion by compression only and that the subsequent ignition of the fuel was termed dieseling

in the case of a trapped pocket of pellet lube, which in this instance is in the pellets skirt where the point of ignition will occur, dieseling in this instance will happen when the compressed air has its effect on the pellet lube and whilst i appreciate that the pellet will be moving there will still be enough pressure behind it to cause a dieseling effect

 

all the best Rob

 

Dave

[klarakoi 0]

if you do go down the pellet lube route then be careful not to get pools of the lube forming in the pellets skirt recess

as this is when dieseling will occur, you will also find that this does nothing for pellet accuracy

i too have used the napier pellet lube and used to drip the lube over the pellets in the tin and put the lid on giving them a good shake

this was he cause of some lube getting into the pellets skirts

it is best if using such lubes to driop the lube into an empty tin and then add the pellets

 

Sorry mate,

 

Dieseling doesn't happen in the barrel it happens in the piston chamber, but your right about the lube in the empty tin first, that does work, lol, I only use lube on one of my rifles and that's the Gamo Shadow and the difference is quite a lot, Takes mine from 14.5 FPE to over 16.FPE, and has no adverse affects to my accuracy, so if your thinking of using any lube you best make sure you ain't going over to the dark side???

All the best,

 

Rob.

 

are you sure that dieseling cannot also occur in the barrel as well as the air chamber ?, in effect when the air passes into the barrel you are adding compressed air to the pellet lube in the pellets skirt in the barrel which inadvertantly diesels and acts as a propellant, i have noticed that when i have thumbed a pellet into the breech of my rifle and that pellet has suffered from a build up of pellet lube that the pellet leaves the barrel with a bang in a cloud of smoke, this has only happened when i have used a pellet with lube in the skirt, i think that the issue of dieseling only occuring in the air chamber came about in the days before pellet lubes were as commonly used as they are today and the lube between the piston and air chamber was the only lube that could be hald responsible for dieseling, some even encouraged this as they believed that it would enhance their rifles performance, however dieseling does nothing for accuracy and is best avoided, sorry mate i just dont buy it when you say that dieseling will only occer in the barrel, dieseling will occur either in the barrel when excessive pellet lube will be at fault or in the air chamber itself when the lube between the piston and the chamber wall is the cause, all you need is a lube that will ignite under pressure and in the case of pellet lube this will mean dieseling in the barrel

 

all the best

 

Fin and Fur

 

Sorry mate,

But the word and condition of dieseling is only to do with explosive combustion in the forward end of the air cylinder, on a spring powerd rifle,, its exactly the same as a deisel engine in a car,, working on trapped gases compressed to a very high pressure,, this cannot happen with the pellet because the propellant is always behind the pellet,, yes the gun will go bang and there will be a puff of smoke, but that has nothing to do with the word dieseling that we know,, this is why when we tune rifles we never allow oil forward of the front end of the piston, also if there was any possibility that lubing a pellet to the manufacturers instructions would cause damage to yours or my air rifles do you really think they would sell you it,,, I dont think so,, we used to wax, wash, and oil our pellets in the old days, and as far as I'm aware some of the best FT; and HFT shooters still do,, but this is only my opinion,, not a war,, lol,, all the best,

Rob..

 

Rob hi

 

i fully appreciate your opinion but i was lead to believe that the term dieseling related to combustion by compression only and that the subsequent ignition of the fuel was termed dieseling

in the case of a trapped pocket of pellet lube, which in this instance is in the pellets skirt where the point of ignition will occur, dieseling in this instance will happen when the compressed air has its effect on the pellet lube and whilst i appreciate that the pellet will be moving there will still be enough pressure behind it to cause a dieseling effect

 

all the best Rob

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes mate you are correct that you can make combustion in the barrel of a gun by oiling the barrel and I suppose in some ways you could term this as dieseling,, but the dieseling we associate with air guns the one that can cause serious damage to the gun is related to the piston traveling at very fast speed due to oil or grease finding its self in front of the piston seal, this causes massive pressure build which ignites to form an explosion,, and the stickier the oil/grease becomes the more it will diesel,, I have seen first hand a lot of rifles over the years that have been damaged beyond repair through this phenomena but true fully I have never seen a barrel in the same state,, dont get me wrong Dave I would imagine that if you was to really tear the arse out of putting any oil substance up the barrel you will without doubt not be doing it a favour but I dont think you will cause it to much trouble,, anyway its only an opinion, all the best Dave,,

 

Rob..

[Deker 3,478]

if you do go down the pellet lube route then be careful not to get pools of the lube forming in the pellets skirt recess

as this is when dieseling will occur, you will also find that this does nothing for pellet accuracy

i too have used the napier pellet lube and used to drip the lube over the pellets in the tin and put the lid on giving them a good shake

this was he cause of some lube getting into the pellets skirts

it is best if using such lubes to driop the lube into an empty tin and then add the pellets

 

Sorry mate,

 

Dieseling doesn't happen in the barrel it happens in the piston chamber, but your right about the lube in the empty tin first, that does work, lol, I only use lube on one of my rifles and that's the Gamo Shadow and the difference is quite a lot, Takes mine from 14.5 FPE to over 16.FPE, and has no adverse affects to my accuracy, so if your thinking of using any lube you best make sure you ain't going over to the dark side???

All the best,

 

Rob.

 

are you sure that dieseling cannot also occur in the barrel as well as the air chamber ?, in effect when the air passes into the barrel you are adding compressed air to the pellet lube in the pellets skirt in the barrel which inadvertantly diesels and acts as a propellant, i have noticed that when i have thumbed a pellet into the breech of my rifle and that pellet has suffered from a build up of pellet lube that the pellet leaves the barrel with a bang in a cloud of smoke, this has only happened when i have used a pellet with lube in the skirt, i think that the issue of dieseling only occuring in the air chamber came about in the days before pellet lubes were as commonly used as they are today and the lube between the piston and air chamber was the only lube that could be hald responsible for dieseling, some even encouraged this as they believed that it would enhance their rifles performance, however dieseling does nothing for accuracy and is best avoided, sorry mate i just dont buy it when you say that dieseling will only occer in the barrel, dieseling will occur either in the barrel when excessive pellet lube will be at fault or in the air chamber itself when the lube between the piston and the chamber wall is the cause, all you need is a lube that will ignite under pressure and in the case of pellet lube this will mean dieseling in the barrel

 

all the best

 

Fin and Fur

 

Sorry mate,

But the word and condition of dieseling is only to do with explosive combustion in the forward end of the air cylinder, on a spring powerd rifle,, its exactly the same as a deisel engine in a car,, working on trapped gases compressed to a very high pressure,, this cannot happen with the pellet because the propellant is always behind the pellet,, yes the gun will go bang and there will be a puff of smoke, but that has nothing to do with the word dieseling that we know,, this is why when we tune rifles we never allow oil forward of the front end of the piston, also if there was any possibility that lubing a pellet to the manufacturers instructions would cause damage to yours or my air rifles do you really think they would sell you it,,, I dont think so,, we used to wax, wash, and oil our pellets in the old days, and as far as I'm aware some of the best FT; and HFT shooters still do,, but this is only my opinion,, not a war,, lol,, all the best,

Rob..

 

Rob hi

 

i fully appreciate your opinion but i was lead to believe that the term dieseling related to combustion by compression only and that the subsequent ignition of the fuel was termed dieseling

in the case of a trapped pocket of pellet lube, which in this instance is in the pellets skirt where the point of ignition will occur, dieseling in this instance will happen when the compressed air has its effect on the pellet lube and whilst i appreciate that the pellet will be moving there will still be enough pressure behind it to cause a dieseling effect

 

all the best Rob

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes mate you are correct that you can make combustion in the barrel of a gun by oiling the barrel and I suppose in some ways you could term this as dieseling,, but the dieseling we associate with air guns the one that can cause serious damage to the gun is related to the piston traveling at very fast speed due to oil or grease finding its self in front of the piston seal, this causes massive pressure build which ignites to form an explosion,, and the stickier the oil/grease becomes the more it will diesel,, I have seen first hand a lot of rifles over the years that have been damaged beyond repair through this phenomena but true fully I have never seen a barrel in the same state,, dont get me wrong Dave I would imagine that if you was to really tear the arse out of putting any oil substance up the barrel you will without doubt not be doing it a favour but I dont think you will cause it to much trouble,, anyway its only an opinion, all the best Dave,,

 

Rob..

 

 

Another interesting take/use of diesling....

 

"Borrowed" from...

Air guns - Pyramyd Air Report

 

What does dieseling mean?

 

Intentional dieseling

Let's look at how a gun can be made to diesel intentionally, starting with the famous Weihrauch HW Barakuda EL54. That was a standard breakbarrel rifle, the HW 35, to be specific, with a tube on the right side to inject a small shot of ether vapor into the compression chamber just before the shot was fired. The point is thst manufacturers recognized the power potential of a detonation and tried to harness it to make airguns shoot faster. Today, we would call the EL54 a firearm, because that is exactly what it is.

 

You don't have to be an airgun manufacturer to make a spring gun diesel. Now that you know how it works, you've probably figured out it takes just some fuel coming in contact with the superheated, compressed air generated by the piston. Children have known this trick for at least half a century, which is the basis of the Oil-Can Louie story I mentioned in the previous post. However, that story ends with the destruction of the airgun, so please don't experiment that way.

 

Deception through dieseling

Gamo sells a .177 breakbarrel spring rifle called the Hunter Extreme, which they claim is capable of generating 1,600 f.p.s. with PBA pellets. When a friend of mine chronographed his, it was shooting just over 1400 f.p.s. Many of you know that I asked for any reader with a Gamo Hunter Extreme to chronograph their rifle and to tell us the numbers. To date, no one has come forward. Gamo used to show a film clip on their website from the Shooting USA TV program that shows a shot chronographed at more than 1600 f.p.s. I tested a PBA pellet in a .177 Condor and it went only 1486 f.p.s., which tells me something might be fishy about Gamo's claim. However, it is possible to make a pellet go as fast as that televised shot with some trickery.

 

All it takes is a pellet with a partial drop of a volatile substance like diesel fuel in its hollow base and you will get velocity figures like that. Forget accuracy at that speed, but the velocity will be there. That's all some people want to see. The gun may not hold up long with that kind of abuse, and I do not recommend that anybody attempt it. As far as I know, this is the only way to get a pellet from a spring-piston airgun going that fast without extra mechanisms, such as an ether injector.

 

Daisy used the principle, too!

In the late 1960s, Daisy put the caseless cartridge of Jules Van Langenhofen into production in a rifle that ignited the solid propellant using the heat of rapidly compressed air. Theoretically, their gun was a .22 caliber spring-piston rifle that just happened to shoot a caseless .22 as powerful as a conventional long rifle. In practice, the bore was too large for pellets, and any .22 pellet you tried to shoot in it was hopelessly inaccurate as well as being underpowered from all the blowby. Guns that use the VL system are still popping up at airgun shows, where they now command $150-225, depending on condition. The cased presentation models have always gone for more.

 

How to stop the detonating

Apart from specific Webley and Weihrauch guns that have piston seals made of PTFE, stopping a spring gun from detonating is iffy. Some guns seem to detonate more than others. Cleaning the compression chamber and lubricating with a small amount of the correct lubricants is a surefire way, but it involves disassembly of the powerplant. You can sometimes solve the problem by putting a drop of high-flashpoint silicone oil into the chamber through the transfer port (or the oil hole in the case of a Mendoza). The high-flashpoint oil seems to dilute the other oils and greases to the point that they diesel but no longer detonate. This isn't a positive solution, but I have seen it work.

 

Well, that turned out to be a longer answer than I thought it would be. But, now, when the subject of dieseling comes up, we have a place to turn to.

[fin and fur 2]

if you do go down the pellet lube route then be careful not to get pools of the lube forming in the pellets skirt recess

as this is when dieseling will occur, you will also find that this does nothing for pellet accuracy

i too have used the napier pellet lube and used to drip the lube over the pellets in the tin and put the lid on giving them a good shake

this was he cause of some lube getting into the pellets skirts

it is best if using such lubes to driop the lube into an empty tin and then add the pellets

 

Sorry mate,

 

Dieseling doesn't happen in the barrel it happens in the piston chamber, but your right about the lube in the empty tin first, that does work, lol, I only use lube on one of my rifles and that's the Gamo Shadow and the difference is quite a lot, Takes mine from 14.5 FPE to over 16.FPE, and has no adverse affects to my accuracy, so if your thinking of using any lube you best make sure you ain't going over to the dark side???

All the best,

 

Rob.

 

are you sure that dieseling cannot also occur in the barrel as well as the air chamber ?, in effect when the air passes into the barrel you are adding compressed air to the pellet lube in the pellets skirt in the barrel which inadvertantly diesels and acts as a propellant, i have noticed that when i have thumbed a pellet into the breech of my rifle and that pellet has suffered from a build up of pellet lube that the pellet leaves the barrel with a bang in a cloud of smoke, this has only happened when i have used a pellet with lube in the skirt, i think that the issue of dieseling only occuring in the air chamber came about in the days before pellet lubes were as commonly used as they are today and the lube between the piston and air chamber was the only lube that could be hald responsible for dieseling, some even encouraged this as they believed that it would enhance their rifles performance, however dieseling does nothing for accuracy and is best avoided, sorry mate i just dont buy it when you say that dieseling will only occer in the barrel, dieseling will occur either in the barrel when excessive pellet lube will be at fault or in the air chamber itself when the lube between the piston and the chamber wall is the cause, all you need is a lube that will ignite under pressure and in the case of pellet lube this will mean dieseling in the barrel

 

all the best

 

Fin and Fur

 

Sorry mate,

But the word and condition of dieseling is only to do with explosive combustion in the forward end of the air cylinder, on a spring powerd rifle,, its exactly the same as a deisel engine in a car,, working on trapped gases compressed to a very high pressure,, this cannot happen with the pellet because the propellant is always behind the pellet,, yes the gun will go bang and there will be a puff of smoke, but that has nothing to do with the word dieseling that we know,, this is why when we tune rifles we never allow oil forward of the front end of the piston, also if there was any possibility that lubing a pellet to the manufacturers instructions would cause damage to yours or my air rifles do you really think they would sell you it,,, I dont think so,, we used to wax, wash, and oil our pellets in the old days, and as far as I'm aware some of the best FT; and HFT shooters still do,, but this is only my opinion,, not a war,, lol,, all the best,

Rob..

 

Rob hi

 

i fully appreciate your opinion but i was lead to believe that the term dieseling related to combustion by compression only and that the subsequent ignition of the fuel was termed dieseling

in the case of a trapped pocket of pellet lube, which in this instance is in the pellets skirt where the point of ignition will occur, dieseling in this instance will happen when the compressed air has its effect on the pellet lube and whilst i appreciate that the pellet will be moving there will still be enough pressure behind it to cause a dieseling effect

 

all the best Rob

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes mate you are correct that you can make combustion in the barrel of a gun by oiling the barrel and I suppose in some ways you could term this as dieseling,, but the dieseling we associate with air guns the one that can cause serious damage to the gun is related to the piston traveling at very fast speed due to oil or grease finding its self in front of the piston seal, this causes massive pressure build which ignites to form an explosion,, and the stickier the oil/grease becomes the more it will diesel,, I have seen first hand a lot of rifles over the years that have been damaged beyond repair through this phenomena but true fully I have never seen a barrel in the same state,, dont get me wrong Dave I would imagine that if you was to really tear the arse out of putting any oil substance up the barrel you will without doubt not be doing it a favour but I dont think you will cause it to much trouble,, anyway its only an opinion, all the best Dave,,

 

Rob..

 

 

Another interesting take/use of diesling....

 

"Borrowed" from...

Air guns - Pyramyd Air Report

 

What does dieseling mean?

 

Intentional dieseling

Let's look at how a gun can be made to diesel intentionally, starting with the famous Weihrauch HW Barakuda EL54. That was a standard breakbarrel rifle, the HW 35, to be specific, with a tube on the right side to inject a small shot of ether vapor into the compression chamber just before the shot was fired. The point is thst manufacturers recognized the power potential of a detonation and tried to harness it to make airguns shoot faster. Today, we would call the EL54 a firearm, because that is exactly what it is.

 

You don't have to be an airgun manufacturer to make a spring gun diesel. Now that you know how it works, you've probably figured out it takes just some fuel coming in contact with the superheated, compressed air generated by the piston. Children have known this trick for at least half a century, which is the basis of the Oil-Can Louie story I mentioned in the previous post. However, that story ends with the destruction of the airgun, so please don't experiment that way.

 

Deception through dieseling

Gamo sells a .177 breakbarrel spring rifle called the Hunter Extreme, which they claim is capable of generating 1,600 f.p.s. with PBA pellets. When a friend of mine chronographed his, it was shooting just over 1400 f.p.s. Many of you know that I asked for any reader with a Gamo Hunter Extreme to chronograph their rifle and to tell us the numbers. To date, no one has come forward. Gamo used to show a film clip on their website from the Shooting USA TV program that shows a shot chronographed at more than 1600 f.p.s. I tested a PBA pellet in a .177 Condor and it went only 1486 f.p.s., which tells me something might be fishy about Gamo's claim. However, it is possible to make a pellet go as fast as that televised shot with some trickery.

 

All it takes is a pellet with a partial drop of a volatile substance like diesel fuel in its hollow base and you will get velocity figures like that. Forget accuracy at that speed, but the velocity will be there. That's all some people want to see. The gun may not hold up long with that kind of abuse, and I do not recommend that anybody attempt it. As far as I know, this is the only way to get a pellet from a spring-piston airgun going that fast without extra mechanisms, such as an ether injector.

 

Daisy used the principle, too!

In the late 1960s, Daisy put the caseless cartridge of Jules Van Langenhofen into production in a rifle that ignited the solid propellant using the heat of rapidly compressed air. Theoretically, their gun was a .22 caliber spring-piston rifle that just happened to shoot a caseless .22 as powerful as a conventional long rifle. In practice, the bore was too large for pellets, and any .22 pellet you tried to shoot in it was hopelessly inaccurate as well as being underpowered from all the blowby. Guns that use the VL system are still popping up at airgun shows, where they now command $150-225, depending on condition. The cased presentation models have always gone for more.

 

How to stop the detonating

Apart from specific Webley and Weihrauch guns that have piston seals made of PTFE, stopping a spring gun from detonating is iffy. Some guns seem to detonate more than others. Cleaning the compression chamber and lubricating with a small amount of the correct lubricants is a surefire way, but it involves disassembly of the powerplant. You can sometimes solve the problem by putting a drop of high-flashpoint silicone oil into the chamber through the transfer port (or the oil hole in the case of a Mendoza). The high-flashpoint oil seems to dilute the other oils and greases to the point that they diesel but no longer detonate. This isn't a positive solution, but I have seen it work.

 

Well, that turned out to be a longer answer than I thought it would be. But, now, when the subject of dieseling comes up, we have a place to turn to.

 

Thanks Deker and Rob for your posts, lots of useful information on here, its nice to come onto a forum where you can have a civilised debate with other people on a given subject without it turning into a slanging match, happy shooting guys

 

Dave

[klarakoi 0]

if you do go down the pellet lube route then be careful not to get pools of the lube forming in the pellets skirt recess

as this is when dieseling will occur, you will also find that this does nothing for pellet accuracy

i too have used the napier pellet lube and used to drip the lube over the pellets in the tin and put the lid on giving them a good shake

this was he cause of some lube getting into the pellets skirts

it is best if using such lubes to driop the lube into an empty tin and then add the pellets

 

Sorry mate,

 

Dieseling doesn't happen in the barrel it happens in the piston chamber, but your right about the lube in the empty tin first, that does work, lol, I only use lube on one of my rifles and that's the Gamo Shadow and the difference is quite a lot, Takes mine from 14.5 FPE to over 16.FPE, and has no adverse affects to my accuracy, so if your thinking of using any lube you best make sure you ain't going over to the dark side???

All the best,

 

Rob.

 

are you sure that dieseling cannot also occur in the barrel as well as the air chamber ?, in effect when the air passes into the barrel you are adding compressed air to the pellet lube in the pellets skirt in the barrel which inadvertantly diesels and acts as a propellant, i have noticed that when i have thumbed a pellet into the breech of my rifle and that pellet has suffered from a build up of pellet lube that the pellet leaves the barrel with a bang in a cloud of smoke, this has only happened when i have used a pellet with lube in the skirt, i think that the issue of dieseling only occuring in the air chamber came about in the days before pellet lubes were as commonly used as they are today and the lube between the piston and air chamber was the only lube that could be hald responsible for dieseling, some even encouraged this as they believed that it would enhance their rifles performance, however dieseling does nothing for accuracy and is best avoided, sorry mate i just dont buy it when you say that dieseling will only occer in the barrel, dieseling will occur either in the barrel when excessive pellet lube will be at fault or in the air chamber itself when the lube between the piston and the chamber wall is the cause, all you need is a lube that will ignite under pressure and in the case of pellet lube this will mean dieseling in the barrel

 

all the best

 

Fin and Fur

 

Sorry mate,

But the word and condition of dieseling is only to do with explosive combustion in the forward end of the air cylinder, on a spring powerd rifle,, its exactly the same as a deisel engine in a car,, working on trapped gases compressed to a very high pressure,, this cannot happen with the pellet because the propellant is always behind the pellet,, yes the gun will go bang and there will be a puff of smoke, but that has nothing to do with the word dieseling that we know,, this is why when we tune rifles we never allow oil forward of the front end of the piston, also if there was any possibility that lubing a pellet to the manufacturers instructions would cause damage to yours or my air rifles do you really think they would sell you it,,, I dont think so,, we used to wax, wash, and oil our pellets in the old days, and as far as I'm aware some of the best FT; and HFT shooters still do,, but this is only my opinion,, not a war,, lol,, all the best,

Rob..

 

Rob hi

 

i fully appreciate your opinion but i was lead to believe that the term dieseling related to combustion by compression only and that the subsequent ignition of the fuel was termed dieseling

in the case of a trapped pocket of pellet lube, which in this instance is in the pellets skirt where the point of ignition will occur, dieseling in this instance will happen when the compressed air has its effect on the pellet lube and whilst i appreciate that the pellet will be moving there will still be enough pressure behind it to cause a dieseling effect

 

all the best Rob

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes mate you are correct that you can make combustion in the barrel of a gun by oiling the barrel and I suppose in some ways you could term this as dieseling,, but the dieseling we associate with air guns the one that can cause serious damage to the gun is related to the piston traveling at very fast speed due to oil or grease finding its self in front of the piston seal, this causes massive pressure build which ignites to form an explosion,, and the stickier the oil/grease becomes the more it will diesel,, I have seen first hand a lot of rifles over the years that have been damaged beyond repair through this phenomena but true fully I have never seen a barrel in the same state,, dont get me wrong Dave I would imagine that if you was to really tear the arse out of putting any oil substance up the barrel you will without doubt not be doing it a favour but I dont think you will cause it to much trouble,, anyway its only an opinion, all the best Dave,,

 

Rob..

 

 

Another interesting take/use of diesling....

 

"Borrowed" from...

Air guns - Pyramyd Air Report

 

What does dieseling mean?

 

Intentional dieseling

Let's look at how a gun can be made to diesel intentionally, starting with the famous Weihrauch HW Barakuda EL54. That was a standard breakbarrel rifle, the HW 35, to be specific, with a tube on the right side to inject a small shot of ether vapor into the compression chamber just before the shot was fired. The point is thst manufacturers recognized the power potential of a detonation and tried to harness it to make airguns shoot faster. Today, we would call the EL54 a firearm, because that is exactly what it is.

 

You don't have to be an airgun manufacturer to make a spring gun diesel. Now that you know how it works, you've probably figured out it takes just some fuel coming in contact with the superheated, compressed air generated by the piston. Children have known this trick for at least half a century, which is the basis of the Oil-Can Louie story I mentioned in the previous post. However, that story ends with the destruction of the airgun, so please don't experiment that way.

 

Deception through dieseling

Gamo sells a .177 breakbarrel spring rifle called the Hunter Extreme, which they claim is capable of generating 1,600 f.p.s. with PBA pellets. When a friend of mine chronographed his, it was shooting just over 1400 f.p.s. Many of you know that I asked for any reader with a Gamo Hunter Extreme to chronograph their rifle and to tell us the numbers. To date, no one has come forward. Gamo used to show a film clip on their website from the Shooting USA TV program that shows a shot chronographed at more than 1600 f.p.s. I tested a PBA pellet in a .177 Condor and it went only 1486 f.p.s., which tells me something might be fishy about Gamo's claim. However, it is possible to make a pellet go as fast as that televised shot with some trickery.

 

All it takes is a pellet with a partial drop of a volatile substance like diesel fuel in its hollow base and you will get velocity figures like that. Forget accuracy at that speed, but the velocity will be there. That's all some people want to see. The gun may not hold up long with that kind of abuse, and I do not recommend that anybody attempt it. As far as I know, this is the only way to get a pellet from a spring-piston airgun going that fast without extra mechanisms, such as an ether injector.

 

Daisy used the principle, too!

In the late 1960s, Daisy put the caseless cartridge of Jules Van Langenhofen into production in a rifle that ignited the solid propellant using the heat of rapidly compressed air. Theoretically, their gun was a .22 caliber spring-piston rifle that just happened to shoot a caseless .22 as powerful as a conventional long rifle. In practice, the bore was too large for pellets, and any .22 pellet you tried to shoot in it was hopelessly inaccurate as well as being underpowered from all the blowby. Guns that use the VL system are still popping up at airgun shows, where they now command $150-225, depending on condition. The cased presentation models have always gone for more.

 

How to stop the detonating

Apart from specific Webley and Weihrauch guns that have piston seals made of PTFE, stopping a spring gun from detonating is iffy. Some guns seem to detonate more than others. Cleaning the compression chamber and lubricating with a small amount of the correct lubricants is a surefire way, but it involves disassembly of the powerplant. You can sometimes solve the problem by putting a drop of high-flashpoint silicone oil into the chamber through the transfer port (or the oil hole in the case of a Mendoza). The high-flashpoint oil seems to dilute the other oils and greases to the point that they diesel but no longer detonate. This isn't a positive solution, but I have seen it work.

 

Well, that turned out to be a longer answer than I thought it would be. But, now, when the subject of dieseling comes up, we have a place to turn to.

 

Thanks Deker and Rob for your posts, lots of useful information on here, its nice to come onto a forum where you can have a civilised debate with other people on a given subject without it turning into a slanging match, happy shooting guys

 

Dave

 

Amen that Dave,

 

What Ive seen over the years on some forum debates sometimes leaves a lot to be desired??? but when like minded people pull together all be it (spelling) with different opinions it shows that all things are debatable,, and of course it helps if on the way to the answers there,s a good bit of banter and leg pulling,, life's to short to sit in front of a PC and slag someone off for a different opinion,, all the best bud,,

 

Rob.