undisputed 1,664 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Maybe we should just have a hunting ban.....save all this arguing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SNAP SHOT 194 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Where i shoot it would be impossible to hunt the fox with dogs, as the ground is simply unsuitable, mostly small fields with alot of gorse, rushes etc, As to saying no skill point and shoot i do not agree.... for trying to shoot a fox at distance reqiures skill of the utmost, once you miss a fox on the lamp you can be sure he won't hang about the second time a lamp is put on him, So then you gotta up your game, range, dial in the windage, bullet drop, lamp on, find fox, range again bang, I've got the utmost respect for all hunting sports but having to justify why we shoot to members who use dogs or vice versa is simply not on... each to their own method... i'm not looking for a slagging match here either, but you need skill on both sides weather its by dog or gun, you need skill to make a kill, end off. the healthiest and most cunning will live..........always........ Snap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MY LAW Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yet another thread on the subject. These are my views on it. I put a similar response to a thread a few days ago. If you are purely wanting some sport, which is what I see in most Lurcher folk, then you are killing a few foxes, when you have the opportunity, when the dogs are on good form, and when the ground allows. I think thats a pretty fair assumption. If you are conducting pest control, then you are shooting as many as you are able to seek, for the solution of a problem. I think that is the difference here. Control or Sport. I put the argument in another thread, that a Healthy fox, makes him a more efficient killer. In the same vain, a slightly less healthy fox, isn't exempt from being a killer. Which is why with shooting, you can control a situation, e.g. land where Poultry or Sheep are kept, and with Lurchers, you can indulge in your sport when you can and when the dogs are able. Not just foxes, Rabbits too. You have the pleasure of seeing your Dogs catching as many Rabbits as it can in a session. But then if you need seriously high volumes removing, the gun will up the average. There is skill in shooting, the same as there is in Dog work. I can't see where all the controversy comes from, perhaps one bad experience with a shooter, tars people's views on them. I think respect whatever you are shooting is important. I'd not pull the trigger on an Animal unless the gun was zeroed (Rifle that is). Just my views. SS like you say there is a skill to shooting ,i think this skill should be aquired through a gun club before you are aloud to own a gun ,but it is not and the animals are suffering because of it .that is my only gripe with shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SportingShooter 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 like you say there is a skill to shooting ,i think this skill should be aquired through a gun club before you are aloud to own a gun ,but it is not and the animals are suffering because of it .that is my only gripe with shooting. I like to see shooting skill learnt from more experienced shooters personally, I just think its more one to one. I could make the same comment about the ownership of dogs, granted a Dog that is useless is going to get nowhere near an Animal to do any damage, but Dogs take a lot more care than a gun, which some simply do not give, in all walks of the dog world, be they workers or pets. SS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
donk 12 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 well its just horses for courses innit??? Me?? i like to get up close and personal when im doing my killing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steviebhoy 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now i have to say im not one of the bullet brigade , each to their own, but i feel strongly about this. Now ´Pre Ban`, and having the option, i would much rather see a dog take a fox, deer, or hare; animals using wit against wit, testing each others speed and stamina to the max. I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash. Im fully aware that some people consider the coursing of fox ect as bad sport, but at least the animals gat a chance to survive. The fit and witty get away and the ill and old get caught, this is also a better way of natural selection, ensuring only the healthiest of each breed survive. Your opinions please. DG And who do you think wants foxes to get fitter and wittier? Not me thats for sure. Trap them, snare them, shoot them, dig them out or catch them with dogs as long as we get rid of the vermin thats all tht counts. If the fox gets away its already fir and has wit doesn´t it? Im not up for wiping out a breed bud, a bit of respect doesnt harm anyone. Sorry but i cant respect the fox, i cant respect anything that kills just for the hell of it. Maybe you have to experience picking up a couple of hundred pheasants with the heads off first. Then the respect you have for them will vanish pretty quickly. [i cant respect anything that kills just for the hell of it ]then you must include man in that fraise You can put in whatever context you lke my law but the bottom line is i wont and will never respect a fox, next time whoever when i go out and shoot a deer for the freezer al say a wee prayer before a fire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MY LAW Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now i have to say im not one of the bullet brigade , each to their own, but i feel strongly about this. Now ´Pre Ban`, and having the option, i would much rather see a dog take a fox, deer, or hare; animals using wit against wit, testing each others speed and stamina to the max. I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash. Im fully aware that some people consider the coursing of fox ect as bad sport, but at least the animals gat a chance to survive. The fit and witty get away and the ill and old get caught, this is also a better way of natural selection, ensuring only the healthiest of each breed survive. Your opinions please. DG And who do you think wants foxes to get fitter and wittier? Not me thats for sure. Trap them, snare them, shoot them, dig them out or catch them with dogs as long as we get rid of the vermin thats all tht counts. If the fox gets away its already fir and has wit doesn´t it? Im not up for wiping out a breed bud, a bit of respect doesnt harm anyone. Sorry but i cant respect the fox, i cant respect anything that kills just for the hell of it. Maybe you have to experience picking up a couple of hundred pheasants with the heads off first. Then the respect you have for them will vanish pretty quickly. [i cant respect anything that kills just for the hell of it ]then you must include man in that fraise You can put in whatever context you lke my law but the bottom line is i wont and will never respect a fox, next time whoever when i go out and shoot a deer for the freezer al say a wee prayer before a fire. i was pointing more to the way man kills the inocent in war . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
osimons89 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 i work as a underkeeper and id love to see every fox hunted with dogs in what ever form but its just not that easy shooting a fox takes less than half the time and is a lot more sucsefull and a lot less disturbing to a shoot. after all if its old ill or in good health it going to eat and if thats my birds its eatting its just got to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SportingShooter 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 well its just horses for courses innit??? Me?? i like to get up close and personal when im doing my killing I didn't know your name was Stalone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
claybusers al 9 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 i grew up a bike ride from the waterloo cup i left school and became a keeper i have terriered most my adult life and now own a clay shoot so i reckon i have been involved in most country sports if we all stuck together and not bitch about what the other does maybe parts of our sport hobbies livelyhoods would not be banned or theatened i understand the running of a dog on its prey whether i want to do it is up to me but until you have collected dead pheasants by the 100's dead lambs more than a dozen a night you will not understand that a complete killing machine like fox that has survived evoloution with very little change needs to be controled by the best meens possible which is usualyy a high powered rifle and lamp which is not always as easy as people think Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sporting Agent 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now i have to say im not one of the bullet brigade , each to their own, but i feel strongly about this. Now ´Pre Ban`, and having the option, i would much rather see a dog take a fox, deer, or hare; animals using wit against wit, testing each others speed and stamina to the max. I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash. Im fully aware that some people consider the coursing of fox ect as bad sport, but at least the animals gat a chance to survive. The fit and witty get away and the ill and old get caught, this is also a better way of natural selection, ensuring only the healthiest of each breed survive. Your opinions please. DG Sorry but I think when we are talking foxes we are talking pest control; that we may derive sport in shooting, hunting etc the fox is secondary. Fox = pest. Who wants natural selection? Who wants the strong fox to get away (to tear appart some chicks)?........ I'm all for each to their own, and firmly believe there is a place for all of us to enjoy our sport. But when it comes to pest control, in this example; I'm all for shooting. As you say in your own words "I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash."............thats the point. The fox does not know, there is no stress, its clean, it works. That is not to belitle other methods of control, but that is what they are first and foremost; methods of control of a pest species. The fact we find sport in it is in addition to the primary responsability of clean, efective, safe pest control. And with that in mind I see shooting a fox cleanly from "1/4 mile away" as an efective and trusted method. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steviebhoy 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now i have to say im not one of the bullet brigade , each to their own, but i feel strongly about this. Now ´Pre Ban`, and having the option, i would much rather see a dog take a fox, deer, or hare; animals using wit against wit, testing each others speed and stamina to the max. I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash. Im fully aware that some people consider the coursing of fox ect as bad sport, but at least the animals gat a chance to survive. The fit and witty get away and the ill and old get caught, this is also a better way of natural selection, ensuring only the healthiest of each breed survive. Your opinions please. DG And who do you think wants foxes to get fitter and wittier? Not me thats for sure. Trap them, snare them, shoot them, dig them out or catch them with dogs as long as we get rid of the vermin thats all tht counts. If the fox gets away its already fir and has wit doesn´t it? Im not up for wiping out a breed bud, a bit of respect doesnt harm anyone. Sorry but i cant respect the fox, i cant respect anything that kills just for the hell of it. Maybe you have to experience picking up a couple of hundred pheasants with the heads off first. Then the respect you have for them will vanish pretty quickly. [i cant respect anything that kills just for the hell of it ]then you must include man in that fraise You can put in whatever context you lke my law but the bottom line is i wont and will never respect a fox, next time whoever when i go out and shoot a deer for the freezer al say a wee prayer before a fire. i was pointing more to the way man kills the inocent in war . Well thats an even bigger can of worms that i wont be going into. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MY LAW Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now i have to say im not one of the bullet brigade , each to their own, but i feel strongly about this. Now ´Pre Ban`, and having the option, i would much rather see a dog take a fox, deer, or hare; animals using wit against wit, testing each others speed and stamina to the max. I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash. Im fully aware that some people consider the coursing of fox ect as bad sport, but at least the animals gat a chance to survive. The fit and witty get away and the ill and old get caught, this is also a better way of natural selection, ensuring only the healthiest of each breed survive. Your opinions please. DG Sorry but I think when we are talking foxes we are talking pest control; that we may derive sport in shooting, hunting etc the fox is secondary. Fox = pest. Who wants natural selection? Who wants the strong fox to get away (to tear appart some chicks)?........ I'm all for each to their own, and firmly believe there is a place for all of us to enjoy our sport. But when it comes to pest control, in this example; I'm all for shooting. As you say in your own words "I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash."............thats the point. The fox does not know, there is no stress, its clean, it works. That is not to belitle other methods of control, but that is what they are first and foremost; methods of control of a pest species. The fact we find sport in it is in addition to the primary responsability of clean, efective, safe pest control. And with that in mind I see shooting a fox cleanly from "1/4 mile away" as an efective and trusted method. only efective if the gun is in the right hands ,most of the time it is not .[only staiting a fact ,that is alowed to continue] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hiho 5 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now i have to say im not one of the bullet brigade , each to their own, but i feel strongly about this. Now ´Pre Ban`, and having the option, i would much rather see a dog take a fox, deer, or hare; animals using wit against wit, testing each others speed and stamina to the max. I cant see any sport in lining a fox up in your sights from 1/4 mile away and dropping it where it stood. The poor blighter probably never even knew you were there, that in my opinion is trash. Im fully aware that some people consider the coursing of fox ect as bad sport, but at least the animals gat a chance to survive. The fit and witty get away and the ill and old get caught, this is also a better way of natural selection, ensuring only the healthiest of each breed survive. Your opinions please. DG you think there is no skill in shooting a fox which includes range guessing windage and being able to hold your gun steady but there is more skill in letting go of a dog. each to there own i suppose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SportingShooter 0 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 only efective if the gun is in the right hands ,most of the time it is not .[only staiting a fact ,that is alowed to continue] Could you give me the stats and facts please, I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just genuinely interested Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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