Carbohydrate in the Working Dogs diet.

[sandymere 8,263]

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

It's pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a normal meal an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.
.
The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considerin

Edited September 21, 2017 by sandymere

[Guest AngelicAcid]

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

 

It’s pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

 

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a “normal meal†an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.

.

The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

 

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

 

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

 

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considering.

 

 

PS, I am happy to pm a reference/reading list to anyone interested in the research this post is based on.

Can you forward some literature on the subject, im always interested in the health and well being of our dogs, seems that not a lot of people are interested in the matter, only what the dogs are supposed to do, regardless of the consequences of inadequete feeding and/or research on the subject and jumping in and trying everthing or anything. yours Acid...

Edited January 7, 2009 by AngelicAcid

[anagallis_arvensis 2]

Before I stopped due to injury I used to do a lot of competitive cycling. What you talk about is pretty much the same as I would treat myself before a race. A maltodexdrin drink in the hour before a race and during as well as after. Protein after is also important to rebuild damaged cells (the basis of training). The difficulties lie in getting the dosage right, too much energy powder (maltowhatsit) during excercise can have drastic effects on the digestive system which arent pleasant in lycra and all individuals are different, some can cope with higher than others, problems with dehydration cn occur too. So whilst in theory you sound right the practice maybe tricky. No harm in giving a dog a small, meal an hour or two before excercise and food after to replace glycogen lost but making it more scientific may be tricky in the real world

[inan 841]

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

 

It’s pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

 

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a “normal meal†an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.

.

The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

 

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

 

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

 

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considering.

 

 

PS, I am happy to pm a reference/reading list to anyone interested in the research this post is based on.

I give my dogs honey and water as a drink while they are out,recharge elctroylite when available.In what form would I find Maltodextrin? Is it in the cereal bars that are sold in supermarkets etc ? Can you get a liquid alternative?

[leegreen 2,153]

That's deep!

[Guest AngelicAcid]

Isnt Maltodextrin available in most chemists?

[sandymere 8,263]

they're energy bars, some supermarkets sell them or sports shops but read the lable to check for maltodextrins rather than just glucose or fructose, though a little of these won't hurt. Most bars will have a little protein as well this aids fast digestion in humans, I've seen nothing to prove it, but as the digestive tract is very similier it may well do so in dogs.

Personally I'd avoid electrolytes unless your dog is low on salt as dogs don't lose them, or a least sodium chloride, through sweat as humans and horses do so there is less chance of depleted levels. Sodium chloride is commonly known as table salt and how many would give their dogs salt water?

[Bush Rummager 4,525]

Good stuff there sandymere, tad heavy for me though......... read once that a well known dog man fed cooked pasta before a lamping comp. Whats youre views on this?? and if so,..... how long before running would you feed it??

[sandymere 8,263]

Good stuff there sandymere, tad heavy for me though......... read once that a well known dog man fed cooked pasta before a lamping comp. Whats youre views on this?? and if so,..... how long before running would you feed it??

 

Cooked pasta is a good complex carbohydrate and so will be slower to digest than more simple sugers it would need to be fed some hours prior to the work. Dogs don't carbo load to the extent of humans but they do store a certain amount so adding a source will aid this process and maybe the last feed before a course might pre load a little which will top up and perhaps increase levels post work. Dogs can produce carbs from other food sources but this is a slow process and a boost will probably alow faster recovery.

[skycat 6,173]

I read somwhere many years ago that a dog's body needs to be conditioned to utilize carbs effeciently, so just feeding one meal of pasta some hours before a hard day or night wouldn't do much good, I'd have thought. Apparently it is better to feed small amounts of carbs on a daily basis for the dog to convert efficiently.

 

I have noticed that my Saluki based lurchers do need more carbs than the faster/sprint type dogs, particularly with those containing a fair amount of Collie. They just get fat on carbs!

[sandymere 8,263]

I read somwhere many years ago that a dog's body needs to be conditioned to utilize carbs effeciently, so just feeding one meal of pasta some hours before a hard day or night wouldn't do much good, I'd have thought. Apparently it is better to feed small amounts of carbs on a daily basis for the dog to convert efficiently.

 

I have noticed that my Saluki based lurchers do need more carbs than the faster/sprint type dogs, particularly with those containing a fair amount of Collie. They just get fat on carbs!

 

Dogs are able to digest and utilise carbs as part of their normal digestion and in truth the more conditioned the dog the less carbs they will use as conditioning probably enables greater use of free fatty acids. I personally prefere to give a carbs as part of the daily feed but a slightly less regular feed, such as once or twice a week, will be digested OK. My only caution would be as it's not such an unusual event, one or twice ayear, as to cause a gastric upsett as can happen with any new food.

 

Saluki hybreds in theory, as stamina specialist, should have more fat burning abilities and less use for carbs but maybe collies crosses bring a fair few slow twitch from their collie genes and these water down the greyhound fast twitch type. Also if a saluki x is a sight hound hybred then it's going to have a fair few fast twitch from both ancesters.

 

Carbs shouldn't make a dog any fatter than other food as only excese calories are stored so in theory if you feed the same amount of calories be it carbs or fats you will get the same result. I know I tend to give less on raw days in volume as the high fat content of many meats means that they are very calorific but tend to perhaps over underestimate the calories in carb feeds and perhaps overfeed. From past experience, and only anecdotal, collie crosse I've owned have been greedier than the sight hound though none as much as bull crosses as proven by the little barrel I've at home.

Edited January 16, 2009 by sandymere

[Guest ferret feller]

mars bar before a rugby game sorted me out a treat id wake up have a fry up with some toast and a mars bar 30 mins before hand and i could run all day after that

[richard25 0]

some info i found on the web

 

Carbohydrates

The dry matter of plants consists of 60-90% carbohydrates - the parts of plants in which energy is stored in different combinations of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. They are classified as follows:

 

Monosaccharides: simple sugars, which in a single unit contain between 3 and 7 carbon atoms. In this group, three 6-carbon monosaccharides (also called "hexoses", C6H12O6) are the most important:

 

Glucose - present in most plant and animal tissues, also the main end product of starch digestion and glycogen hydrolysis in the liver. It is the primary form of carbohydrate which circulates in the blood and is utilized by the body cells for energy.

Fructose (fruit sugar) - found in ripe fruits, honey and some vegetables. Also a product of digestion or acid hydrolysis of sucrose in the body.

Galactose - one half of the disaccharide lactose, which is present in the milk of all mammals. Unlike glucose and fructose it is not found in an isolated form but broken down in the digestion process and converted into glucose by the liver.

 

Disaccharides: consist of two monosaccharides linked together:

 

Lactose - one molecule of glucose linked to one molecule of galactose. Present in the milk of all mammals and the only carbohydrate of animal origin of significance in the diet.

Sucrose (table sugar) - one molecule of glucose linked to one molecule of fructose. Found for example in sugar beets or sugar cane.

Maltose - two linked glucose molecules. Not commonly found in an isolated form, but produced in the body when starch is digested.

 

Polysaccharides: are long and complex chains of linked monosaccharides, like for example

 

Dextrins - the intermediate products of starch digestion.

Glycogen - the form in which carbohydrates are stored in the body.

Starch - the main sources of carbohydrates present in cereal grains, potatoes and other "starchy" parts of plants.

Dietary fiber - several forms of carbohydrates such as cellulose, hemicellulose, pectin, plant gums and mucilages. Unlike other carbohydrates, these are linked by a special kind of bonds that resist "normal" digestion but are partially broken down by the beneficial bacteria in the large intestine. More on this topic in the article on fiber.

 

Among other things, glucose is necessary for the nervous system to function properly and a limited amount is stored in the body ready for release into the blood if needed. Excess amounts are metabolized into fat for more "long term" storage - which may lead to obesity. The dog's metabolism is very proficient at hydrolizing glycogen from protein sources, so large amounts of carbohydrates are not required in the diet.

 

Common carbohydrate sources in dog foods are corn, rice, wheat, sorghum, millet, barley and oats. As long as they are properly processed (dogs do not produce the enzymes required to break down plant cell walls), they are readily metabolized. A moderate amount of quality grade grains contributes many nutrients as well as fiber. In many inexpensive dog food products, grains and grain byproducts are mainly used as a cheap (and incomplete) source of protein, not because of their carbohydrate content.

 

 

 

But do most dogs really need carbohydrates? In the Waltham Book of Dog and Cat Nutrition (2nd edition, 1988), we read that

 

"There is no known minimum dietary carbohydrate requirement for either the dog or the cat. Based on investigations in the dog and with other species it is likely that dogs and cats can be maintained without carbohydrates if the diet supplies enough fat or protein from which the metabolic requirement for glucose is derived."

 

 

How can this be? Let us discuss just how the dog and cat are able to fulfill their requirement for glucose through a diet of raw meat, bones, and organs.

 

Carbohydrates do provide quick and easy energy. However, it is not 'carbs' that maintain the health of the organs listed in the quotes above, but glucose. Glucose can be obtained from protein through a process known as gluconeogenesis, where amino acids (not fatty acids; those use a different cycle) are "converted" to glucose. Fat can also be used for energy; fats are broken down into Acetyl CoA and are fed directly into the Citric Acid Cycle, bypassing the process of glycolysis (the first stage of carbohydrate metabolism). Thus, glucose and energy can be obtained from other sources. However, if carbs are present they will be converted to energy first before protein and fats because they are easier to use. This is the reason that carbs regulate how much starch and fat will be broken down and utilized. If there is a plethora of carbohydrates, fat will be stored instead of used. If there are not enough carbs to fulfill energy needs, then fat will be converted to Acetyl CoA and used. If no carbs are present, then fat and protein are used to fill energy needs.

 

Excess carbohydrates are stored in the liver and the muscles as glycogen AND in the body as fat. However, since carboydrates are not the only source of glycogen (which also comes from proteins and fats through a process known as glyconeogenesis), they are not absolutely necessary. Human athletes commonly perform 'carbo loading' techniques where they eat huge carby meals of things like pasta to rapidly replenish their glycogen stores in their muscles and liver before a competition. The carbohydrates, when in excess, are more rapidly converted and stored as glycogen compared to fat and protein. HOWEVER, once again, fat and protein can also be stored as glycogen, which makes carbohydrates unnecessary unless you want to perform 'carbo loading'. I believe it is Purina that has capitalized on this and now has "energy bars" of complex carbohydrates for the canine athlete to help them recover more quickly between events. But, carbohydrates do not rebuild spent muscle tissue, etc. Protein does that. Fat is also easily utilized for quick energy, too, and provides more energy per gram that carbohydrate does (9 kcals/gram of fat compared to 4 kcals/gram of carbohydrate).

 

It is not low carbohydrate intake that causes things like cardiac symptoms and angina; it is low blood glucose. If there is not enough glucose in the blood system, then you run into many problems including black outs, cardiac symptoms (like arrhythmia), and angina (chest pain). Of course, it is interesting that wolves can go without food for weeks and still survive well enough. How do they do that without eating carbs? Simple—they use up fat reserves and may even dip into their own muscle to get the necessary proteins and fats to provide glucose and energy for their bodies. So carbohydrates themselves are not actually necessary; glucose is necessary, and that can be obtained from sources other than carbohydrates.

 

What about the brain? The brain is preferentially given glucose above all other organs. Glucose in its ready form, at that. But does this mean carbohydrates are necessary? Since glucose can be had from protein and Acetyl CoA from fat, then no.

 

What about the claim of protein and fat—when converted to energy—weakening the immune system? This seems to be taken from human research where athletes in intensive training had suppressed immune systems which could be improved by consuming proper amounts of carbohydrate. Additionally, white blood cell production in humans seems linked to glucose production. More glucose present means the body is better able to mount an immune response—until there is "too much" glucose around and insulin spikes and starts suppressing all other pathways in the body except for those needed to force the glucose into cells (fat cells). High amounts of simple carbohydrates and sugars are known to suppress the immune system. If this is the case, though, one could wonder how a diet high in grain affects our pets—overstimulation of the immune system due to high concentrations of glucose from the grain? Perhaps this is why many pets suffer "allergies" while on grain!

 

One other comment I have here is that as long as the animal is receiving appropriate fat and protein, glucose production will not be an issue. And for carnivorous animals like dogs, I cannot help but wonder if their white blood cells are more sensitive to glucose than ours--meaning, less glucose is needed to "stimulate" canine white blood cell (WBC) production compared to human WBC production.

 

Using protein and fat for energy does not weaken the immune system unless there is not enough to go around, so to speak. If someone is starving, then using protein and fats for energy—while necessary—is a little 'cost-intensive' on the body. But it is not the lack of carbs that is hurting them; it is the simple lack of enough food. Similarly, a human athlete in intensive training may overwork their body to the point that using protein and fats for fuel becomes too cost-intensive to their body.

 

What about poor hair growth and constant shedding resulting from a lack of carbohydrates? Can these indicate a 'need' for carbs? Maybe, but more likely it indicates a need for better overall nutrition. I personally have NEVER heard of 'carbohydrate deficiency' in any animal. Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as a "necessary carbohydrate," just necessary glucose. Our bodies, and our dogs' bodies, can do without carbohydrates (although I would say our dogs would fare better than humans, since we are omnivores who do well with fresh vegetables in our diet—except for some cultures that eat mostly meat!). Fats and proteins can be converted easily to Acetyl CoA and glucose, respectively. Poor hair growth and constant shedding are linked to an overall poor diet, poor consumption of essential fatty acids, biotin deficiencies, some vitamin and mineral deficiencies, AND a lack of good fats and proteins in the diet. PROTEIN, not carbohydrate, is the building block for hair and skin and all other parts of the body. Carbohydrates do nothing for building and maintaining the body structures except provide easy glucose to fuel the rebuilding process.

 

What about thyroid function? Thyroid function is dependent upon the correct amount of GLUCOSE produced by the dog's body, not by the correct amount of carbohydrates in the diet. Too much glucose from easily available carbohydrate energy sources can cause just as many problems as not enough glucose. Since we have already established that glucose can be produced from protein (or even skipped during fat metabolism, where Acetyl CoA is used instead), then it would again seem that carbohydrates are actually unnecessary provided that there is enough protein and fat to go around (and a raw diet has PLENTY!).

 

B compounds, or B vitamins, are found not only in the dog's own intestine (bacteria produce some B vitamins) but also in the meat and organs of prey animals. Feeding a variety of organ meats as part of a proper raw diet will cover the B-vitamin requirement quite easily. One has to wonder--how much of the B compounds in grain and starch and veggies is actually available to the dog? Compared to something more bioavailable like liver, then I would say 'not much.'

[sandymere 8,263]

Dogs don't need carbs and probably humans don't either, ie inuit/eskimo diets, but does that mean the shouldn't have them? The post on carbs gave reasons why carbs can have a positive affect in the canine diet. Many people seem very dogmatic about what a dog can and can't eat but I feel that diets are better inclusive rather than exclusive. An athlete of whatever species be it dog, horse or human deserves a diet to suit it's needs rather than one based on dogma and hippy trippy ideas of what is natural. Lastly carbs are likely a natural part of a dogs ancestors diet anyway or why would the have gastric capibiliteis so well designed to digest them?

Edited January 19, 2009 by sandymere

[richard25 0]

We will never no some of the answers now but i think we have changed there gastric system through evolution as they were originally not designed for carbs but i have read studies of akita ( i will try to find ) where they showed how over the last century how carbs have changed and affected the akita.

 

Its only really been since the first or second world war that dog food has come about & you have to remember carbs were added just as a filler at the time ( with no credible science to it ) & this is how the dog food industry became what it is today worth something like 2billion a year.