Breeding and Testing

[Stabs 3]

First of all, please forgive me if I can't get my thoughts across in a soundbite kind of way...

 

I've been sat here wondering about specific breeding goals and the resultant testing of dogs in the pursuit of those said goals.

 

If, for arguments sake, you had the intention of breeding some 3/4 whippet 1/4 bulls as I did a few years ago, would you bother to test the first generation cross (half bull - half whippet) knowing that the actual purpose of the cross was one generation away?

 

Let's say you had a good bull and a good whippet (this could work equally as well for a collie and a greyhound or a bedlington and a whippet...but hopefully you get the point) and your intention was a decent 3/4 bred, how much work do you put into the resultant half cross?

 

It's widely accepted by the standards that most of my hunting mates hold dear, that a dog isn't worth breeding from until they have proved themselves, usually the 3rd or 4th season, so if your intention was a a 3/4 bred from good base stock in say January 2009, you would be waiting a while before your prospective mating took place. Say you had half cross pups on the ground today..... their first season might arguably be 2009 or even 2010 depending on the cross. That might mean you are looking at 2013/2014 to be sure that the the half crosses are worth breeding off. How many are prepared to wait this long?

 

Given the fact that the sole intention of the breeding was for 3/4 crosses, how many would have given the first generation light work, if anything, and bred from them when physically able to?

 

I'm not fishing here...I really am genuinely interested.

 

What if the half crosses never make the grade, what do you do then? Do you ignore this and breed anyway as your sole intention was the 3/4 cross?

 

Any thoughts/opinions most welcome

[hairybull 3]

I think I would work the half cross knowing its limits and seeing if the traits are there/available to be passed onto its offspring. ie you find yourself saying ' if only its legs were longer it would be a great dog' as long as it shows something of what you are after. If its trainable, not a nuisance around the yard (Ive had plenty of good dogs in the field but prone to destroying things at home- they went...) and is only missing the thing you are about to add.

 

But no.. wouldnt work it for seasons, just long enough for it to mature, show its true colours and be a dog you WANT to breed from. Obviously even if its the breed you need, if its a PITA or not worthy breeding from it wouldnt happen

[Guest dances]

i Think it all depends on a few things,

 

Firstly, is there any point breeding of the 1st crosses if they do the job just to get 2nd crosses?

There's an old saying where im from ' handsome is as handsome does'

 

secondly, overall you are better having the half crosses as they arent as a slow as the second crosses.

 

Would there be any need for such as cross, imho they would be to small for the intention of the bull breeding however it would give that bit more determination.

 

Y.I.S

 

Dances

[T78 4]

i Think it all depends on a few things,

 

Firstly, is there any point breeding of the 1st crosses if they do the job just to get 2nd crosses?

There's an old saying where im from ' handsome is as handsome does'

 

secondly, overall you are better having the half crosses as they arent as a slow as the second crosses.

 

Would there be any need for such as cross, imho they would be to small for the intention of the bull breeding however it would give that bit more determination.

 

Y.I.S

 

Dances

the half x wouldn't be as slow as the second generation?

[Stabs 3]

I didn't get that bit either.

 

The bull thing was just an example. Don't get hung up on that bit.

The intention was for a 3/4 cross as I said in the post

[donk 12]

I was interested when this topic first went up to see what the replies were going to be?

 

I think its unfortunate that there have been so few replies,which means either of two things to me,

 

1) its a boring topic,which its obviously not as there are loads of people on here who are breeders!!

 

2) people are afraid to comment,or dont have enough knowledge to comment,on the subject.

 

Just think its funny how so many can advertise "pups from good working lines" or dogs that are "taking all quarry" and yet there are very few replies to what i expected to be a 20 page long topic by now???

 

By the way i dont breed dogs,never have and probably never will,so i dont feel qualified to comment on this topic.

[Guest WILF]

I didn't get that bit either.

 

The bull thing was just an example. Don't get hung up on that bit.

The intention was for a 3/4 cross as I said in the post

 

How would you decide if the 1/2cross was any good?........well IMHO only lads who think about these things and have realistic expectations of the dog could decide.

If they met or exceeded these expectations then there seems no good reason not to try for the 3/4 if thats what you really wanted.........at what age you try would be down to personal judgement.

 

BUT.......as you know my friend, one mans good dog is another mans shite.......so it would have to be a breeding for personal use only...........sadly, so many 100% dogs crop up in the "for sale"........the question is,"Whos 100%?"

 

Just my very undeducated opinion.

[tango 221]

personally if it was a 3/4 i wanted to breed regardless of type i would use a half that i had seen work over the proposed mate ,instead of breedin a litter that you dont really need eg one of the bull whippets over a whippet bitch ,there are already a hell of alot half breds of every mix out there and say it takes 5-6 months to find one your happy with then even a year for the bitch to come to season. at 15-16 months the halfs will only really be started so using an already tested half will save nearly 2-3 years and thats only if the half you would have bred make the grade in the first place.this is only my opinion on your question and all may or may not agree,what ever you decide i wish you all the very best with them

[Guest night time my time]

First of all, please forgive me if I can't get my thoughts across in a soundbite kind of way...

 

I've been sat here wondering about specific breeding goals and the resultant testing of dogs in the pursuit of those said goals.

 

If, for arguments sake, you had the intention of breeding some 3/4 whippet 1/4 bulls as I did a few years ago, would you bother to test the first generation cross (half bull - half whippet) knowing that the actual purpose of the cross was one generation away?

 

Let's say you had a good bull and a good whippet (this could work equally as well for a collie and a greyhound or a bedlington and a whippet...but hopefully you get the point) and your intention was a decent 3/4 bred, how much work do you put into the resultant half cross?

 

It's widely accepted by the standards that most of my hunting mates hold dear, that a dog isn't worth breeding from until they have proved themselves, usually the 3rd or 4th season, so if your intention was a a 3/4 bred from good base stock in say January 2009, you would be waiting a while before your prospective mating took place. Say you had half cross pups on the ground today..... their first season might arguably be 2009 or even 2010 depending on the cross. That might mean you are looking at 2013/2014 to be sure that the the half crosses are worth breeding off. How many are prepared to wait this long?

 

Given the fact that the sole intention of the breeding was for 3/4 crosses, how many would have given the first generation light work, if anything, and bred from them when physically able to?

 

I'm not fishing here...I really am genuinely interested.

 

What if the half crosses never make the grade, what do you do then? Do you ignore this and breed anyway as your sole intention was the 3/4 cross?

 

Any thoughts/opinions most welcome

i would definatly work the half x but then i only breed herding type dogs,hard to go wrong with if you choose the right pup,also one thing to look at is a dogs bite,if your breeding bull to whippet for example pay carfull attention to the bite as one jaw can take on the larger dog, the other the smaller,its easy to end up with over or undershot jaws,this is common when breeding 2 such differnt dogs with such a differnt with of head and jaw,.these imo should not be used to breed on to the 3/4 as will apear agian,just my 2 penneth ;)edited to add i think you know weather you have a dog worth breeding on from after its 2nd working season,sometimes you will know almost right from a pup depending on which x, hope thats a help, Edited January 10, 2009 by night time my time

[doxhope 2]

I was interested when this topic first went up to see what the replies were going to be?

 

I think its unfortunate that there have been so few replies,which means either of two things to me,

 

1) its a boring topic,which its obviously not as there are loads of people on here who are breeders!!

 

2) people are afraid to comment,or dont have enough knowledge to comment,on the subject.

 

Just think its funny how so many can advertise "pups from good working lines" or dogs that are "taking all quarry" and yet there are very few replies to what i expected to be a 20 page long topic by now???

 

By the way i dont breed dogs,never have and probably never will,so i dont feel qualified to comment on this topic.

 

 

Probably either the first or second part of 2 Donk

[glamour 1]

Interesting post lads, too much maths for me!

Mauybe tomorrow when i'm not as pissed!!

 

Keep it f*****g death metal you jizz sacks!

 

xx

[labsnlurchers 39]

I would test the 1/2 crosses and breed only if they made the grade in work, temprement, health and working conformation. Any areas i felt that were lacking in the 1/2 cross i would select the stud to cover those in any progeny but if there were any serious flaws i just wouldnt breed. If your not willing to wait to breed then just buy a pup off someone who is.

[Guest night time my time]

I would test the 1/2 crosses and breed only if they made the grade in work, temprement, health and working conformation. Any areas i felt that were lacking in the 1/2 cross i would select the stud to cover those in any progeny but if there were any serious flaws i just wouldnt breed. If your not willing to wait to breed then just buy a pup off someone who is.

iv run a half x collie grey and bred some superb 3/4 crosses from her over the years,iv also line bred over some of her daughters, im now adding acd to the line but they will be trained and tested before the line goes any ferther, Edited January 10, 2009 by night time my time

[skinnyrat 0]

.

Edited January 10, 2009 by skinnyrat

[Guest dances]

i Think it all depends on a few things,

 

Firstly, is there any point breeding of the 1st crosses if they do the job just to get 2nd crosses?

There's an old saying where im from ' handsome is as handsome does'

 

secondly, overall you are better having the half crosses as they arent as a slow as the second crosses.

 

Would there be any need for such as cross, imho they would be to small for the intention of the bull breeding however it would give that bit more determination.

 

Y.I.S

 

Dances

the half x wouldn't be as slow as the second generation?

 

sorry, i didnt explain that i was talking in terms of agility