Help with thugs and the LAW

[Sterry 0]

Just another story im afriad

 

My dad came home to find the door locked from inside and a van parked acroos our drive, assumin a burglar was inside he picked up a chunk of wood to defend himself only being a little guy, fortunatly the robbers shat 'em selves at being interupted and legged it out. when police came they saw the peice of wood and started questioning what it was intended for, my dad said "well..to whack em if i coaught them" he was promptly given a lectur on how this is the "wrong thing to do".

And i thought the law was in place to protect people like us and our possessions, obviously not.

 

Driven scum bag shoot may become a popular sport if this sort of thing keeps happenein

[hotel2zero 0]

Guys this is clearly a hot topic.......

 

I would suggest anyone who seriously feels they need cover because of situations such as this happening, read the P.A.C.E Act of 1984, this covers an individuals right to detain/arrest someone commiting a crime and oulines the use of force in such a situation (section 24A). This power is only applicable to indictable offences, i.e those which are tried in a Crown Court. Theft as in this case would be one; but so is a firearms offence!.......

 

TSA - thanks for your very true input into this matter, would you be able to supply a link to the above section of the P.A.C.E.Act please?

 

I've tried looking on the pace website but only seem to get chapters.

 

Thanks again

[cyclonebri1 8]

It's good when things work out right tho'.

 

I recall a good few years back some friends of our's received a call from a farmer down the lane from them. Were they moving out?

 

He'd been hedging down the lane for a good few hours and had seen a transit loading stuff from their place. They raced home from work and found the tractor blocking off the only way out of the lane and the police chopper had rounded up the the turds

[The Sporting Agent 0]

Guys this is clearly a hot topic.......

 

I would suggest anyone who seriously feels they need cover because of situations such as this happening, read the P.A.C.E Act of 1984, this covers an individuals right to detain/arrest someone commiting a crime and oulines the use of force in such a situation (section 24A). This power is only applicable to indictable offences, i.e those which are tried in a Crown Court. Theft as in this case would be one; but so is a firearms offence!.......

 

TSA - thanks for your very true input into this matter, would you be able to supply a link to the above section of the P.A.C.E.Act please?

 

I've tried looking on the pace website but only seem to get chapters.

 

Thanks again

 

No problem.

 

The Act, as with all similar is bloody lengthy although there are bits to be found online. If you PM me specific questions I will try and answer them, or at least give you an idea of which sections of the Act are rellevent so you can look them up.

 

ATB

[Born Again 1]

It's good when things work out right tho'.

 

I recall a good few years back some friends of our's received a call from a farmer down the lane from them. Were they moving out?

 

He'd been hedging down the lane for a good few hours and had seen a transit loading stuff from their place. They raced home from work and found the tractor blocking off the only way out of the lane and the police chopper had rounded up the the turds

 

And after a £10,000 operation involving the chopper the scum probably got a suspended sentence

 

A pair of good Dobermans would have sorted it better.

[Halfinch 51]

Just a Hypothetical question, But what if you were shooting on a farm with permission and you saw a similer offence taking place, would you have to leave your gun under a bush, and confront them, or would you be unable to confront them at all because you technically have a firearm with you? even though it is hidden (concealed weapon?)

 

Just food for thought.

[hotel2zero 0]

Guys this is clearly a hot topic.......

 

I would suggest anyone who seriously feels they need cover because of situations such as this happening, read the P.A.C.E Act of 1984, this covers an individuals right to detain/arrest someone commiting a crime and oulines the use of force in such a situation (section 24A). This power is only applicable to indictable offences, i.e those which are tried in a Crown Court. Theft as in this case would be one; but so is a firearms offence!.......

 

TSA - thanks for your............

 

No problem.

 

The Act, as with all similar is bloody lengthy although there are bits to be found online. If you PM me specific questions I will try and answer them, or at least give you an idea of which sections of the Act are rellevent so you can look them up.

 

ATB

 

Just a link to any of the pace act would be great, i'm sure i'll spend hours reading through it and trying to make sence of it all!

 

It's good when things work out right tho'.

 

I recall a good few years back some friends of our's received a call from a farmer down the lane from them. Were they moving out?

 

He'd been hedging down the lane for a good few hours and had seen a transit loading stuff from their place. They raced home from work and found the tractor blocking off the only way out of the lane and the police chopper had rounded up the the turds

 

And after a £10,000 operation involving the chopper the scum probably got a suspended sentence

 

A pair of good Dobermans would have sorted it better.

 

Does make you feel cheated when that happens, our money spent to run the operation and rarely a result worth the time!

 

Just a Hypothetical question, But what if you were shooting on a farm with permission and you saw a similer offence taking place, would you have to leave your gun under a bush, and confront them, or would you be unable to confront them at all because you technically have a firearm with you? even though it is hidden (concealed weapon?)

 

Just food for thought.

 

Another good angle there Halfinch, i'm sure someone would know the answer.

 

one of the farms i shoot i was given the permission partly to have cars parked in the yard all night and to have people walking around with rifles and the sound of gunfire as a warning to people eyeing up the place.

and i get a great permission to shoot on!

 

cheers

[The Sporting Agent 0]

Guys this is clearly a hot topic.......

 

I would suggest anyone who seriously feels they need cover because of situations such as this happening, read the P.A.C.E Act of 1984, this covers an individuals right to detain/arrest someone commiting a crime and oulines the use of force in such a situation (section 24A). This power is only applicable to indictable offences, i.e those which are tried in a Crown Court. Theft as in this case would be one; but so is a firearms offence!.......

 

TSA - thanks for your............

 

No problem.

 

The Act, as with all similar is bloody lengthy although there are bits to be found online. If you PM me specific questions I will try and answer them, or at least give you an idea of which sections of the Act are rellevent so you can look them up.

 

ATB

 

Just a link to any of the pace act would be great, i'm sure i'll spend hours reading through it and trying to make sence of it all!

 

It's good when things work out right tho'.

 

I recall a good few years back some friends of our's received a call from a farmer down the lane from them. Were they moving out?

 

He'd been hedging down the lane for a good few hours and had seen a transit loading stuff from their place. They raced home from work and found the tractor blocking off the only way out of the lane and the police chopper had rounded up the the turds

 

And after a £10,000 operation involving the chopper the scum probably got a suspended sentence

 

A pair of good Dobermans would have sorted it better.

 

Does make you feel cheated when that happens, our money spent to run the operation and rarely a result worth the time!

 

Just a Hypothetical question, But what if you were shooting on a farm with permission and you saw a similer offence taking place, would you have to leave your gun under a bush, and confront them, or would you be unable to confront them at all because you technically have a firearm with you? even though it is hidden (concealed weapon?)

 

Just food for thought.

 

Another good angle there Halfinch, i'm sure someone would know the answer.

 

one of the farms i shoot i was given the permission partly to have cars parked in the yard all night and to have people walking around with rifles and the sound of gunfire as a warning to people eyeing up the place.

and i get a great permission to shoot on!

 

cheers

 

I'm afraid I don't have a sdirect link; that info came from some bits I have on law for work.

 

If its section 24 specifically you want, try Googleing Citizens Arrest or Any Person aarest instead of the full PACE Act; there is a bit on Wiki but its not exactly a full explanation.

 

Halfinch;

I suspect, taking known advice about what to do if one is confronted by antis while out shooting; that if it is not possible to remove your firearm to the safety of a locked vehicle or building before confronting them, you must take all reasonable measures to make sure your firearm is not seen as a threat. Obviously; put it in a gun slip; failing that remove the bolt/mag or in the case of a shotgun carry it broken. You can not countenance for the reaction of others but the measures you have taken are reasonable in the circumstances.

 

In an ideal world get a witnes to coroberate your view and make a note of your actions; if the police get involved and/or it goes to court you will need them.

[cyclonebri1 8]

Guys this is clearly a hot topic.......

 

I would suggest anyone who seriously feels they need cover because of situations such as this happening, read the P.A.C.E Act of 1984, this covers an individuals right to detain/arrest someone commiting a crime and oulines the use of force in such a situation (section 24A). This power is only applicable to indictable offences, i.e those which are tried in a Crown Court. Theft as in this case would be one; but so is a firearms offence!.......

 

TSA - thanks for your............

 

No problem.

 

The Act, as with all similar is bloody lengthy although there are bits to be found online. If you PM me specific questions I will try and answer them, or at least give you an idea of which sections of the Act are rellevent so you can look them up.

 

ATB

 

Just a link to any of the pace act would be great, i'm sure i'll spend hours reading through it and trying to make sence of it all!

 

It's good when things work out right tho'.

 

I recall a good few years back some friends of our's received a call from a farmer down the lane from them. Were they moving out?

 

He'd been hedging down the lane for a good few hours and had seen a transit loading stuff from their place. They raced home from work and found the tractor blocking off the only way out of the lane and the police chopper had rounded up the the turds

 

And after a £10,000 operation involving the chopper the scum probably got a suspended sentence

 

A pair of good Dobermans would have sorted it better.

 

Does make you feel cheated when that happens, our money spent to run the operation and rarely a result worth the time!

 

Just a Hypothetical question, But what if you were shooting on a farm with permission and you saw a similer offence taking place, would you have to leave your gun under a bush, and confront them, or would you be unable to confront them at all because you technically have a firearm with you? even though it is hidden (concealed weapon?)

 

Just food for thought.

 

Another good angle there Halfinch, i'm sure someone would know the answer.

 

one of the farms i shoot i was given the permission partly to have cars parked in the yard all night and to have people walking around with rifles and the sound of gunfire as a warning to people eyeing up the place.

and i get a great permission to shoot on!

 

cheers

 

I'm afraid I don't have a sdirect link; that info came from some bits I have on law for work.

 

If its section 24 specifically you want, try Googleing Citizens Arrest or Any Person aarest instead of the full PACE Act; there is a bit on Wiki but its not exactly a full explanation.

 

Halfinch;

I suspect, taking known advice about what to do if one is confronted by antis while out shooting; that if it is not possible to remove your firearm to the safety of a locked vehicle or building before confronting them, you must take all reasonable measures to make sure your firearm is not seen as a threat. Obviously; put it in a gun slip; failing that remove the bolt/mag or in the case of a shotgun carry it broken. You can not countenance for the reaction of others but the measures you have taken are reasonable in the circumstances.

 

In an ideal world get a witnes to coroberate your view and make a note of your actions; if the police get involved and/or it goes to court you will need them.

 

 

This kind of shit was one of the reasons I gave up shooting about 12 years ago. Too many bizzybodies/do gooders interfereing or reporting lawfull sporting activities. + copper waiting behind my car for over 2hrs at the entrance to a country lane when he saw a gunslip accross the front seat of the car, (something I always did to suggest to walkers that there was a man with a gun about}

 

Today I am more resilient, why should anyone get in the way of my lawfull persuance of my recently renewed involvement in shooting?

[arveyboy 0]

i have a varied opinion on law enforcement

 

my old man is a farmer and once every two years or so our farm gets raided by the diddies (sorry must be politically correct) travellers. during their last stop over they stole a ten ton trailer, a quadbike and numerous other pieces of expensive equipment. they also stole a ride on lawn mower which was completely broken so we had the last laugh.

 

anyway we call the police and every single time absolutely nothing is done about it. we even gave the police the location of the camp in which we suspected everything was. the police are too bloody scared of 'travellers' to enforce the law where it should be enforced yet woe be tied if you try to defend yourself from thieves breaking into your house. im not saying we should be allowed to shoot any trespasser on site but i think it is unfair to have charges pressed against you by the person having broken into your house just because you gave them a whack with a piece of wood to stop them from hurting you or your family. PRIORITIES must be scrutinized greatly in my opinion.

 

we had a case about 6 years ago when someone tried to steal our car while we were all in the house. whilst gazing out of the window i saw a bloke trying to get into one of the farm cars. i assumed it was one of the students who worked on the farm but casually joked to my dad that someone was trying to steal his car. i soon realized he wasnt as my dad confronted the tw*t who promptly ran for his life. of course if the thief had approached the police station and complained that whilst trying to rob a car a man with a baseball bat stopped him then it would have been my dad in the sh*t.

 

sorry for the rant

Edited January 3, 2009 by arveyboy

[hotel2zero 0]

TSA - ok pal, thanks again, i'll google it up and was just thinking - why can't i ask my local flo for info and direction on to how to deal with these situations....?

 

after all, they are there to help and the fact that i'm asking shouldn't reflect badly on me (well i hope not!)

[The Sporting Agent 0]

TSA - ok pal, thanks again, i'll google it up and was just thinking - why can't i ask my local flo for info and direction on to how to deal with these situations....?

 

after all, they are there to help and the fact that i'm asking shouldn't reflect badly on me (well i hope not!)

 

 

Certanly ask your FLO, if he his uniform Plod he'll be able to give you the sp on what to if you have a firearm in your possetion etc. If its Section 24 (arrest and detain) you want to know about, he may not be the best person to ask, as its probably not something he would know about on a day to day basis; likewise the Occupiers Liability side he possably is not the best to ask; but there is certanly no harm him picking his brains.

[The Sporting Agent 0]

This kind of shit was one of the reasons I gave up shooting about 12 years ago. Too many bizzybodies/do gooders interfereing or reporting lawfull sporting activities. + copper waiting behind my car for over 2hrs at the entrance to a country lane when he saw a gunslip accross the front seat of the car, (something I always did to suggest to walkers that there was a man with a gun about}

 

Today I am more resilient, why should anyone get in the way of my lawfull persuance of my recently renewed involvement in shooting?

 

Cyclonebri; I'm sorry if you think what I've psted is "bizzybodie/do gooders",I can asure you I am mearly trying to pint out what can and can not be done in circumstances such as those in this thread, and what restrictions there may be in law. Like or loath the law, its (they are) there, and in order to not make a situation worse it can be worth having some idea of the relevant regs, particularly if it may be something that affects you on a regular basis.

 

Its good to hear that you have decided to take up the sports again.

[hotel2zero 0]

TSA - ok pal, thanks again, i'll google it up and was just thinking - why can't i ask my local flo for info and direction on to how to deal with these situations....?

 

after all, they are there to help and the fact that i'm asking shouldn't reflect badly on me (well i hope not!)

 

 

Certanly ask your FLO, if he his uniform Plod he'll be able to give you the sp on what to if you have a firearm in your possetion etc. If its Section 24 (arrest and detain) you want to know about, he may not be the best person to ask, as its probably not something he would know about on a day to day basis; likewise the Occupiers Liability side he possably is not the best to ask; but there is certanly no harm him picking his brains.

 

think i'll do that next week - nothing to loose and as you said he may not know the in's and out's but he will know where to send me...

 

cheers for that

[hotel2zero 0]

Just a Hypothetical question, But what if you were shooting on a farm with permission and you saw a similer offence taking place, would you have to leave your gun under a bush, and confront them, or would you be unable to confront them at all because you technically have a firearm with you? even though it is hidden (concealed weapon?)

 

Just food for thought.

 

Halfinch and ANYONE who would like to know the legal status of the above staged situation, i'll be asking this question to my FLO and will be posting the response on the forum.

 

What a thread i've started here ay!!