Pac collar works a treat

[Pignut 4]

First Patt - castrated male known wanderer (rescued) - red mist comes down, hunting mode on and off he goes. Not now. Collar on - ping ping ping and he comes back from miles away and has a biccie.

 

Second Patt - spayed bitch known sheep killer and ruler of all known civilisations - red mist comes down, hunting mode on and off she goes, hearing every word but ignoring it because it is not convenient. So, ping, ping, ping and Mummy, mummy, mummy did you call? Here I am?

 

4 rabbits put up and I don't want them to vanish into 25 miles of hill so I let them chase until it goes to ground and they have had their fun but are looking to go further away from me for more wabbits. I ping Patt 1 - he ignores so I lightly buzz and he comes straight back. Patt 2 gets pinged and comes straight back. Lots of praise. Miles of hill-walking with dogs! Amazing. Brilliant. Dog treats all round.

 

After 4th rabbit goes past, everyone looks the other way and says its not worth it, leave it to the lurcher - he can catch them and comes home. Perfect. Bring on the sheep!

[Pignut 4]

Today, first Patt (runaway rescue) has totally got the plot and is so happy. Full of confidence around the house, in the garden and on his walk. Knows exactly what is required. If he goes very far away, head down a rabbit hole and we are moving on, I call him, he can't hear, so I ping him and he comes to me instantly, tail a-wagging, treat and praise given and off we go. He doesn't mind the ping at all and sees it as the answer to all his prayers. He wants to do good but can't hear us half the time (wind blowing, gone too far away).

 

Second Patt hates the pinging and has got herself into a state about the smallest ping. She did chase a sheep to kill so I zapped her and she went home immediately, tail between her legs and refused to talk to me. A few hours later, we went for a walk. She was by my side all the time, being given treats and encouraged to be happy. She was very miserable to start with but cheered up as we went on. She was a good girl and eventually began to enjoy herself, staying within earshot except once and then she was pinged for ignoring my calls. She immediately came and sat beside me and was given praise and her treat. She then decided that if she listened to me, she would not get pinged and settled into her routine.

 

I suppose we are all learning and every dog is, of course, different to train. Patt 1 is much more happier he has got the plot to this living with people thing. He was never very sure what was required. He was a rescue found a-wandering the streets 2 years ago of Hereford and brought in. He does his best but tends to treat us like a hotel mostly buggering off into the hill for about 8 hours at a time.

 

There is lots of work to be done with Patt 2 - she has to realise that a ping is not a punishment and just a gentle reminder of what is next if she goes on ignoring me.

 

Nevertheless, it is so nice to walk with 3 dogs that are listening for a change rather than coming home purple in the face from shouting and probably minus some of them too!

[Pignut 4]

Well, I realise that no one is writing back on this thread, but 70 of you have read it so......

Day 3.

 

I took them out. Patt 1 (rescue runaway) immediately has got the plot. Just say his name, and he is there. If he is too far away, then a ping and he arrives. Instant reward (dog choccie drops) and off he goes again, happy and much much more confident in himself.

 

Patt 2 - cringeing spayed bitch who has been ruling the world and manipulating us all. Put the collar on and off she cringed. Gave her a choccie drop, lots of encouragement to join us and she finally managed to come too. You could see her brain working as she dared to go further and further away from me that nothing horrible was happening. She began to hunt and sniff and dig in a field we never dare go in, someone put up a rabbit, and they all gave chase. The moment it went over our boundary, I called them all back and they instantly returned to me. Throughout the walk, she came back often to me, looked at me alot and got a doggie choc if she came back when I asked her to. She was much happier in herself. Her little tail (what's left) was up and wagging all the way round and she was interested in the outside world again but on far less manipulative terms, ie determined to rule it!

 

At the end of the walk, I had them all beside me off leads walking down our road to the car looking at me and awaiting my orders. We live at the end of a 1/2 mile track, so I let them off at the top and drove at 30mph home with them galloping behind.

 

A much happier bunch. Dog choccies all round and far less tension and worry. I think I shouted their names about 1/5 of the normal amount and they all came back immediately.

 

Interestingly, I went to feed my goats afterwards (which spayed bitch has a killing thing about) and I called her off immediately. She came with me as one of my team rather than with her usual "who can I bully now" mode. She seems much happier and calmer in herself now that the rules are written in stone, while the Patt runaway seems far more confident about life in general - like he has been wondering what on earth we were on about for the last 2 years! The lights are finally on and someone is at home!

 

[fraggle 4]

Sounds like they worked a treat and great write up, you should send it to the company for promo. Do you think they would work on a 7 yr old gsd x colley for the same reasons as in partial death when out walking, stubborn git wont listen anything more than ten meters from our side.

[alimac 882]

yep they do have there place, but(not in your case by the sounds of it) alot ofthe need can be taken out by proper basic training.... it only goes wrong when the owner dont know when to zap and when not too

[fraggle 4]

yeah he was a stray when we got him had no training at all. he is very good 99% of the time, even have him trained to only eat from his bowl and not any of the other animals. his only downside is his recall out in the fields, tried long lead and he recalls great soon as he is off though not a chance when his eye catches some thing.

[TOPPER 1,809]

used properly electric collars are a brilliant bit of kit the problem lies with the idiots that get them and think its fun to zap the fck out of the dog, theres the one that need the collar not the dog

[Simoman 110]

alimac and Topper are correct, collars have there place but they are only as usefull as the person holding the button, timing is everything, many people use the collar as a substitute for basic training because they percieve it as easier and less time consuming...........Not saying that in your case pignut as I don't know the ins and outs.......

[johnny4 0]

ive got a pac collar for my terrier used to go of and be gone for ages never would come back when called so i set myself to get a training collar ( and theys loads on the market )and it was that or a re-home but hes still here after 4 years so it does work on head strong dogs but only if used right

 

johnny

[Pignut 4]

"Ins and outs?" Simoman, were that I had two out-of-control Patterdales with a f**k-you attitude when they put up a rabbit. Then it got to the stage they could only be walked on leads in our own 50 acres as they got through fences and pissed off into the open hill to look for more rabbits. Then it got to the stage when Patt2 (spayed bitch) was cornering sheep she found in the hill to rip open and would not come home. They would go out for hours on end - if you gave them any chance.

 

We were at our wits' end. They both come home 60% of the time when you called if they were nearby but Shetland is windy (they can't hear you), they were getting more and more confident and we had tried, we thought, most things including a long long lead, treats, re-training, playing, etc. On my land, it doesn't matter, but on others' it does. My neighbour had already last year threatened to shoot them. Other's were being very tolerant about it but why should they if Patt 2 is attacking sheep? I would shoot a dog that did that. (I don't keep sheep - just horses).

 

So, I borrowed a friends Pac collar and although not working very well, I could see that it got Patt2's attention instantly.

 

Then I parted with my arm and leg to buy a 2 collar Pac and the results have been instant.

 

Day 4 - today - I took them for the ultimate test - THE BEACH. Sandy, windy, waves, dunes, wabbits and more wabbit holes. I had a pocketful of doggie choccie drops, carried 2 leads for back-up and didn't use them once. From the car, up the beach, down the beach, near the dunes, I had three dogs playing, running, returning to either voice or ping (depending on distance), no misery, no tail between legs, no tellings off and lots and lots of praise. It was a great walk. I enjoyed every minute. I came back relaxed and happy. No one got zapped once, just a few pings to remind them to follow me. We met another dog, another family and they were my dogs, my pack and listening to just me. Perfect.

 

Pac collars have their downside too, though.

1. Badly put together instructions - all together in about 5 languages and you have to wade through much rubbish to find what you need in your own language! Also badly explained.

2. When you put the collar on and then remember you forgot to switch it on, you have to take the collar off and start it as you cannot see whether the light is flashing or not as it is on the inside of the collar.

3. Both bloody buttons are the same colour - I shall have to label mine with nail-varnish or something.

4. Both bloody buttons are too close together so you can zap or ping the wrong dog by mistake far too easily.

 

Those are just my findings. It has been a vertical learning curve and one that has interested me greatly (I train horses for a living). My dogs are far calmer all round, they know where they stand with me. They had been getting more and more uppity and taking over. I was feeling alot like I was letting them down but couldn't work out how to get into their heads. They knew it and things were getting worse and worse. You end up realising that you are compromising all the way just to get some good behaviour off your dog when you can solve it quickly and in an instant. I will keep using this method. I am happy to ping them when I want them - it is like ringing the door bell into their brains!

 

Just now, I went and fed my goats. Patt2 came with me and Patt1 and lurcher buggered off down into my field to dig some rabbits. I called and called. Nothing. So I pinged Patt2 who dropped what he was doing and came home! Perfect! Brought the lurcher too (who is old and knows better).

[Guest oneredtrim]

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Edited December 30, 2008 by oneredtrim

[Pignut 4]

Dont agree with collars for a recall, most of what you've described can be acheived by teaching a terrier to stalk when young. Because the trick with the collar is a quick fix of sorts then a lot is missed...especially a staunch bond with a dog that learns to understand your breathing patterns through constantly being in close proximity to you.

 

What the collars wont do is stop the terrier on it's return journey should that path look to be a dangerous one.

 

Not against them being used for stock worrying or creating an invisible wall but for the rest i prefer/enjoy getting out there and bespoking myself.

 

I admire and envy the close relationship you obviously have with your dogs, OneRedTrim. It is something I have to admit to not having achieved. If this is a quick fix of sorts with a lot missed, then it had to be as I was running out of time fast. I am due in hospital for a few weeks (serious emergency back operation and then immobile for weeks). My OH will be walking the dogs, there are wild sheep everywhere we go as we live in open hill and we neither have the luxury of your knowledge, time or ability - I doubt I will be walking very much afterwards for a while and then there is the lambing season approaching fast.

 

So, if I have cut corners, it is to save my dogs' lives and I make no apology for that. I would love a staunch bond with both my dogs. Patt 1 came with previous issues (rescue) and Patt 2 has acquired them probably due to my mis-handling or misunderstanding her brain. I am new to terriers. My lurcher has always been easy so it is a different mind-set I have had to get into fast.

 

I have noticed, however, that Patt2 is noticing my every breath and movement with far more respect, care and desire to be with me. This can only be good. Patt1 has gone his own way for many many years and I think once we have got over lambing, my operation and installed a good routine when out on walks of coming back with the same amount of dogs you started with, then we can see how we fair without the collars. They don't have to be used. They are being used less and less during each walk so learning is definitely a process going on with these two.

 

Again, OneRedTrim, I have nothing but respect for your methods but sadly do not have the luxury of your knowledge or time to instigate these rules in my dogs' lives.

[Guest oneredtrim]

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Edited December 30, 2008 by oneredtrim