Hunts flushing fox to birds of prey?

[redeye jedi 39]

Success was helped by the fact that Humphrey worked his eagles with dogs, two terriers and a Llewellen setter. A remarkable feat indeed working an eagle on foxes and managing to keep the eagles respect towards the dogs especially the terriers as equal hunting partners and not potential quarry.

A most unusual factor was Humphrey trained his eagles to return and to be carried on his shoulders which were protected by heavy horse hide, even though when sharp set he remarked that the eagle could numb his shoulders with her grip.

Although little is reported as to his initial training methods, they must have been more sympathetic towards the eagles temperament to allow a returning fox hunter to land on you shoulders without serious risk to your personal safety.

 

During the 1960’s a new breed of eagle falconers were quietly enjoying excellent sport, Rob Allan of North Wales, John Hockenhull of Cheshire and Lorent de Bastyai of South Wales. Who between them were flying well behaved male and female Golden Eagles at rabbit, hare and foxes.

 

The list of regularly taken quarry was increasing, no longer just the humble rabbit and the athletic brown hare. Now the blue mountain hare which is a more traditional quarry of our wild eagles in the Highlands of Scotland was ending up in the falconer’s bag. Red Foxes too, a very formidable quarry, wily and very fleet of foot, armed with a ferocious set of teeth. A wise eagle falconer uses only an experienced sure footing eagle to tackle the fox, if taken out on the open hill rather than just bolted from an earth it is a worthy quarry.

Roe and Sika deer were taken on the hill, although the Sika when fully grown can weigh from 100 lbs upwards, I have only known of the odd Sika taken and killed by a trained eagle.

The roe is a much more suitable deer quarry and if taken by a high flying eagle producing a spectacular flight culminating in a satisfactory end.

Roe hawking on the flat tends to result in a rodeo come drag em down scenario, whereas a high flying eagle out on the hill stooping from a few hundred feet can kill an adult roe.

My female Golden Eagle ‘Maria’ with now twenty three hunting seasons to her credit proved this point on the second deer she tackled. Stooping at a shallow angle of about 35 degrees across the hill, from a height of no more than two hundred feet and at a distance of about half a mile. She took a roe doe weighing 52 lbs by the head, the impact threw the doe forward and head over heals with the eagle still binding to the head resulting in a broken neck for the doe.

Winged quarry has been taken on occasions, here I am only concerned with stylish flying encounters . I have not been able to achieve anything other than the occasional and opportunist kill on wing quarry, hill pheasants mostly, never have I taken a red grouse, although I have heard of the odd one being plucked from the heather.

The following is an account of my male eagle ‘Ivan’ who was invited to a days rabbit hawking on the hills of the North Yorkshire moors by the landowner and his keeper.

“ He caught two more rabbits before we decided to call it a day. As we made our way diagonally down the hill, John the keeper virtually stood on a cock pheasant, it burst into action, its verbal cacophony was still ringing in my ears as I saw ‘Ivan’ close his wings and start to plummet earth wards.

Now, he rarely takes any notice of feathered quarry, and I had informed our host of this matter with almost certainty.

‘Ivan’ had commenced his stoop some fifty yards behind us and it was near vertical, perhaps he had seen a rabbit, the old cock was now cracking on ahead. My companions were still watching the departing pheasant, ‘Ivan’ levelled out of his dive and passed between Morris and I at about shoulder height. With wings still tucked tight to his body he past like a cruise missile. I saw Morris flinch at the sound of the parting air. He overhauled the pheasant in a couple of seconds, and as he came level, he rolled over onto his side and we saw a large yellow foot, reach out and pluck the pheasant out of the air. He then turned into the hillside and landed.

I was speechless, then Morris whooped out and yelled ‘BRILLIANT’. I apologised. ‘Sorry?’ he yelled “That was the best yet, I’ve never seen anything like it. What a brilliant day’.

In twenty seven years of memories flying Golden Eagle’s, few could be described as dull and lack lustre. The British falconer has at long last discovered the enormous potential of the Golden Eagle.

 

Acknowledgements;

Everett, Mike., 1992.The Golden Eagle. The Falconers & Raptor Conservation Magazine. 10:6-7

Gates, A. 1989. They Call the Wind Maria. The Austringer 89: 2-5.

Gates, A. 1990. Call of the Wind. The Falconers & Raptor Conservation Magazine. 4: 8-10 Gates, A. 1991. A Day on the Hill. The Falconers & Raptors Conservation Magazine. 7: 14-15.

Harting, J.E., Hints on the Management of Hawks. The Tabard Press Ltd. London 1970

 

Illingworth, F., Falcons and Falconry. Blanford Press. London. 1971.

 

Knight, C.W.R., All British Eagle. Hodder and Stoughton Ltd., London. 1943.

Knight, C.W.R., The Book of the Golden Eagle. Hodder and Stoughton Ltd. London. 1927

 

Mavrogordato, J.G., A Hawk for the Bush. H.F. & G. Witherby Ltd. London. 1960

[Guest MY LAW]

Success was helped by the fact that Humphrey worked his eagles with dogs, two terriers and a Llewellen setter. A remarkable feat indeed working an eagle on foxes and managing to keep the eagles respect towards the dogs especially the terriers as equal hunting partners and not potential quarry.

A most unusual factor was Humphrey trained his eagles to return and to be carried on his shoulders which were protected by heavy horse hide, even though when sharp set he remarked that the eagle could numb his shoulders with her grip.

Although little is reported as to his initial training methods, they must have been more sympathetic towards the eagles temperament to allow a returning fox hunter to land on you shoulders without serious risk to your personal safety.

 

During the 1960’s a new breed of eagle falconers were quietly enjoying excellent sport, Rob Allan of North Wales, John Hockenhull of Cheshire and Lorent de Bastyai of South Wales. Who between them were flying well behaved male and female Golden Eagles at rabbit, hare and foxes.

 

The list of regularly taken quarry was increasing, no longer just the humble rabbit and the athletic brown hare. Now the blue mountain hare which is a more traditional quarry of our wild eagles in the Highlands of Scotland was ending up in the falconer’s bag. Red Foxes too, a very formidable quarry, wily and very fleet of foot, armed with a ferocious set of teeth. A wise eagle falconer uses only an experienced sure footing eagle to tackle the fox, if taken out on the open hill rather than just bolted from an earth it is a worthy quarry.

Roe and Sika deer were taken on the hill, although the Sika when fully grown can weigh from 100 lbs upwards, I have only known of the odd Sika taken and killed by a trained eagle.

The roe is a much more suitable deer quarry and if taken by a high flying eagle producing a spectacular flight culminating in a satisfactory end.

Roe hawking on the flat tends to result in a rodeo come drag em down scenario, whereas a high flying eagle out on the hill stooping from a few hundred feet can kill an adult roe.

My female Golden Eagle ‘Maria’ with now twenty three hunting seasons to her credit proved this point on the second deer she tackled. Stooping at a shallow angle of about 35 degrees across the hill, from a height of no more than two hundred feet and at a distance of about half a mile. She took a roe doe weighing 52 lbs by the head, the impact threw the doe forward and head over heals with the eagle still binding to the head resulting in a broken neck for the doe.

Winged quarry has been taken on occasions, here I am only concerned with stylish flying encounters . I have not been able to achieve anything other than the occasional and opportunist kill on wing quarry, hill pheasants mostly, never have I taken a red grouse, although I have heard of the odd one being plucked from the heather.

The following is an account of my male eagle ‘Ivan’ who was invited to a days rabbit hawking on the hills of the North Yorkshire moors by the landowner and his keeper.

“ He caught two more rabbits before we decided to call it a day. As we made our way diagonally down the hill, John the keeper virtually stood on a cock pheasant, it burst into action, its verbal cacophony was still ringing in my ears as I saw ‘Ivan’ close his wings and start to plummet earth wards.

Now, he rarely takes any notice of feathered quarry, and I had informed our host of this matter with almost certainty.

‘Ivan’ had commenced his stoop some fifty yards behind us and it was near vertical, perhaps he had seen a rabbit, the old cock was now cracking on ahead. My companions were still watching the departing pheasant, ‘Ivan’ levelled out of his dive and passed between Morris and I at about shoulder height. With wings still tucked tight to his body he past like a cruise missile. I saw Morris flinch at the sound of the parting air. He overhauled the pheasant in a couple of seconds, and as he came level, he rolled over onto his side and we saw a large yellow foot, reach out and pluck the pheasant out of the air. He then turned into the hillside and landed.

I was speechless, then Morris whooped out and yelled ‘BRILLIANT’. I apologised. ‘Sorry?’ he yelled “That was the best yet, I’ve never seen anything like it. What a brilliant day’.

In twenty seven years of memories flying Golden Eagle’s, few could be described as dull and lack lustre. The British falconer has at long last discovered the enormous potential of the Golden Eagle.

 

Acknowledgements;

Everett, Mike., 1992.The Golden Eagle. The Falconers & Raptor Conservation Magazine. 10:6-7

Gates, A. 1989. They Call the Wind Maria. The Austringer 89: 2-5.

Gates, A. 1990. Call of the Wind. The Falconers & Raptor Conservation Magazine. 4: 8-10 Gates, A. 1991. A Day on the Hill. The Falconers & Raptors Conservation Magazine. 7: 14-15.

Harting, J.E., Hints on the Management of Hawks. The Tabard Press Ltd. London 1970

 

Illingworth, F., Falcons and Falconry. Blanford Press. London. 1971.

 

Knight, C.W.R., All British Eagle. Hodder and Stoughton Ltd., London. 1943.

Knight, C.W.R., The Book of the Golden Eagle. Hodder and Stoughton Ltd. London. 1927

 

Mavrogordato, J.G., A Hawk for the Bush. H.F. & G. Witherby Ltd. London. 1960

it only proves what i have been saying they can grab a fox but they dont kill it regular ,and as for killing the deer it sound like a one of and a fluke ,nothing else ,the man admits using dogs as wel i wonder how mutch input they had to do with killing the foxes ,he staits his self that a fox is a formidable quarry ,and they only used the best to tackle them ,it dont say kill them ,so good try but no proof.

[dogs-n-natives 1,182]

Studies conducted on a harpy eagle's grip came with results that said the bird had the grip strength of ten adult men standing on the tip of a nail.

 

Golden eagles have been known to kill wolves, and we should all know that a german shepherd is no match for an enraged male gray wolf. just a few quotes mate that do for you?

any body can write what they want ,eagles have been know to be lucky on ocasions but like i said it dont happen very often ,dont keep making me go back on whats been said already ,they cant do it on a regular basis.

Dont know about eagle owls, ive heard the females can but I wouldnt reckon they would be in the same league as an eagle. But certainly golden eagle if trained to, will do it regularly, why dont you go and see for yourself? Instead of talking a load of crap about them, just go check it out, that will be what it will take for you to see what they can do...... some people need to see to belive and theres nowt wrong with that.

 

Im not doubting for one second that they wouldnt take bad bites or even killed in extreme cases, and that is why no-one would even dream of putting a bird worth several grand in any serious danger in this country!

 

Those mongo's and kasak's will just go and raid another nest whenever they need another bird to bring on, but the birds are used regularly to catch fox, they do package holidays now for the tourists, to see them in action, the birds will be taking hold of anything including fox/jackal/wolf/deer etc, they have birds that take hold of wolf regularly!

 

I would normally be sat just reading a thread like this and laughing at the daft comments, not bothering to post, but im sat next to a friend whos family owns a falconry centre, and they know eagles inside out, they have been all over the world, seen them hunted to the limits, he is foaming at the mouth! lol

[redeye jedi 39]

my law your a muppet read it again and take it ALL in not just what you want to think!

[dogs-n-natives 1,182]

it only proves what i have been saying they can grab a fox but they dont kill it regular ,and as for killing the deer it sound like a one of and a fluke ,nothing else ,the man admits using dogs as wel i wonder how mutch input they had to do with killing the foxes ,he staits his self that a fox is a formidable quarry ,and they only used the best to tackle them ,it dont say kill them ,so good try but no proof.

I must add, that you have a point there, the fox/whatever isnt always killed and needs finishing off!! So what?

[MARKR1985 15]

my law your a muppet read it again and take it ALL in not just what you want to think!

dont think youre going to get through to him mate :wallbash:

[redeye jedi 39]

i dont care about getting through to him, i bet his mother had a job getting him to tie his shoes! probably still cant do it!

[MARKR1985 15]

she couldnt find proof that a double knot WOULD stop them coming undone!

[Guest MY LAW]

why all of a sudden are some of you acting like kids ,on about shoe laces ,my only conclusion is you are kids . i have only disputed that a eagle can and does kill foxes on a regular basis ,and there is no proof that it can ,it only grabs a hold ,and on the odd lucky ocasion a fox dies , nothing more nothing less ,there is not a vid or other proof that they can do it most of the time ,so why do you bother to keep on trying to prove otherwise.THEY CANT and THEY DONT

[Malt 379]

Feck me, I've never seen a pride of lions take down a wildebeest with my own eyes, but I'm not dull enough to state for fact

 

"THEY CAN'T and THEY DON'T!'

 

I've also never actually seen a fox kill a shed full of chickens, a shark take a seal, etc, that's not to say it doesn't happen....

 

Last words from me on the subject..

[Guest MY LAW]

Feck me, I've never seen a pride of lions take down a wildebeest with my own eyes, but I'm not dull enough to state for fact

 

"THEY CAN'T and THEY DON'T!'

 

I've also never actually seen a fox kill a shed full of chickens, a shark take a seal, etc, that's not to say it doesn't happen....

 

Last words from me on the subject..

but they have all been filmd doing so ,for all to see time and time again ,unlike a eagle killing a fox time and time again .so your beter of not saying any more you everdently cant prove shit.like i said THEYCANT and THEY DONT Edited December 31, 2008 by MY LAW

[redeye jedi 39]

COQ

[Halfinch 51]

why all of a sudden are some of you acting like kids ,on about shoe laces ,my only conclusion is you are kids . i have only disputed that a eagle can and does kill foxes on a regular basis ,and there is no proof that it can ,it only grabs a hold ,and on the odd lucky ocasion a fox dies , nothing more nothing less ,there is not a vid or other proof that they can do it most of the time ,so why do you bother to keep on trying to prove otherwise.THEY CANT and THEY DONT

 

So can you prove it CAN'T be done then?

Because unless you can, you don't have an argument for your case either.

 

Have you ever seen footage of a dog killing a human?

Or maybe that couldn't happen either?

Edited December 31, 2008 by Halfinch

[bill88 6]

My Law,your comments are correct.Golden Eagles and European Eagle Owls in the wild do not predate on wolves or foxes on a regular basis.In Czech,Mongolia and,Kazhakstan they are used to hunt fox and small deer and anyone who has actually been and witnessed these birds working knows the handlers run like madmen to subdue the fox/deer before the birds get damaged.I'm not a falconer but have several close friends who have been flying and working numerous BOP's for 30 years or more and one who visits Czech on a regular basis.A lot of the Eagles flown on larger prey carry lots of feather damage and casualties are HIGH!, the more acomplished Eagles (those that try for head holds) are very sought after and highly prized.

As for Eagle Owls go look in any Falconry rescue centre they are full of Eagle Owls.If Eagles and Eagle Owls are so adept at catching and killing larger prey then why doe's there diet consist mainly of Rabbit and Mountain Hare? because the the risks are far lower tackling smaller prey.

I know of Harris's and Red Tails that have been fatally wounded by Squirrels and Gos's that have been kicked to death by hares.Im sure if anyone was to ask the people working there Eagles on larger prey they would have numerous stories of casualties and fatalities with there birds.

[Chid 6,581]

as bill says yes birds do take deer and fox and yes not all the time will they kill they just grab and hold and the animal will run on till its exhausted or caught by the handlers .

 

we have a very good home movie here (father in laws) when he traveled to the cech to watch BOPs taking big game , it was mainly deer and hare . and to me the guys aint to mithered [bANNED TEXT] they throw there birds at , got it on video here a Harris Hawk thrown at a deer and the deer dropped through the exhaustion of running while how ever many pounds of pressure are squeezing its back , not many on the video take by the head , to me its a bit like a dog with no brain lol grab the first bit you see and hold on for deer life lol