brookie 1,193 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 What difference does it make which breeds are crossed, if the conformation and working ability is spot on in both Dam and Sire? all the difference in the world Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi 4 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 That all makes sense but the fact is the majority of people when buying a working dog will be buying a pup.....so you only have the parents to go by regarding conformation.......Personally i regard good conformation as a bonus rather than a necessity on a working dog and if buying a dog id rather have an hours phone conversation with the breeder in preference to an hour looking at a dog/litter. if your eye for a dog can pick up major or minor conformation faults then you should trust it, have the strenght to walk away from a litter that has a crap sire or dam of in some cases both, if the working strenghts of one or the other parents is the main reason for the litter look at the quality of the sire or dam used to carry it on, both phyically and workwise. look at the parents then look at the pups....don't matter if it purebred or crossbred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaker 7 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 when looking at confirmation a barrel chest is a must because that is where the lungs and heart is and when exerted they expand so a barrel chest is an assett a wide front shows a good centre of gravity which gives a dog balance... Quite the opposite. A barrel chest is massively inferior to a deep, elliptical chest with well sprung ribs. Think of the heart and lungs as bellows stoking a fire... A barrel shaped chest is, by definition, already "inflated" (rounded) in shape and thus has far less room for expansion and contraction (less air in and out at each 'stroke') than does a well sprung elliptical one. The only dogs I've seen with barrel chests are show Staffords, English Bulldogs and 'granny Russells' Greyhounds, well bred APBTs etc on the other hand, all have long, deep elliptical chests to allow for the all important air to get in and out with maximum efficiency. To be fair though, I've never sat myself down and visually compared any working dog/pup to an imaginary ideal. You either have an 'eye' or you don't, imho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clover 0 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 " when looking at confirmation a barrel chest is a must because that is where the lungs and heart is and when exerted they expand so a barrel chest is an assett a wide front shows a good centre of gravity which gives a dog balance..." "Quite the opposite. A barrel chest is massively inferior to a deep, elliptical chest with well sprung ribs. Think of the heart and lungs as bellows stoking a fire... A barrel shaped chest is, by definition, already "inflated" (rounded) in shape and thus has far less room for expansion and contraction (less air in and out at each 'stroke') than does a well sprung elliptical one. The only dogs I've seen with barrel chests are show Staffords, English Bulldogs and 'granny Russells' Greyhounds, well bred APBTs etc on the other hand, all have long, deep elliptical chests to allow for the all important air to get in and out with maximum efficiency. To be fair though, I've never sat myself down and visually compared any working dog/pup to an imaginary ideal. You either have an 'eye' or you don't, imho." I agree with you completely. You neither want a slab sided dog, nor a barrel chested dog, but a dog with a good depth of chest and a good spring of rib. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
labsnlurchers 39 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 when looking at confirmation a barrel chest is a must because that is where the lungs and heart is and when exerted they expand so a barrel chest is an assett a wide front shows a good centre of gravity which gives a dog balance... Quite the opposite. A barrel chest is massively inferior to a deep, elliptical chest with well sprung ribs. Think of the heart and lungs as bellows stoking a fire... A barrel shaped chest is, by definition, already "inflated" (rounded) in shape and thus has far less room for expansion and contraction (less air in and out at each 'stroke') than does a well sprung elliptical one. The only dogs I've seen with barrel chests are show Staffords, English Bulldogs and 'granny Russells' Greyhounds, well bred APBTs etc on the other hand, all have long, deep elliptical chests to allow for the all important air to get in and out with maximum efficiency. To be fair though, I've never sat myself down and visually compared any working dog/pup to an imaginary ideal. You either have an 'eye' or you don't, imho. good advice rainmaker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FenMaster 2 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 more idiots on here than in an asylum tou wouldnt know a dog if one cocked his leg up the side of you young women and keyboard hunters quoting nonsence theyve read thats been written by fools and try to argue the attributes of a working dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DEERMAN 1,020 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 more idiots on here than in an asylum tou wouldnt know a dog if one cocked his leg up the side of you young women and keyboard hunters quoting nonsence theyve read thats been written by fools and try to argue the attributes of a working dog i was starting to think this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brock1 2 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 i think the shape of a dog is erelavant to how it will work with regards to haveing miner faults in a dogs composher & the templament & intelagence of the perants more inportant when picking a pup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brookie 1,193 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 when looking at confirmation a barrel chest is a must because that is where the lungs and heart is and when exerted they expand so a barrel chest is an assett a wide front shows a good centre of gravity which gives a dog balance... Quite the opposite. A barrel chest is massively inferior to a deep, elliptical chest with well sprung ribs. Think of the heart and lungs as bellows stoking a fire... A barrel shaped chest is, by definition, already "inflated" (rounded) in shape and thus has far less room for expansion and contraction (less air in and out at each 'stroke') than does a well sprung elliptical one. The only dogs I've seen with barrel chests are show Staffords, English Bulldogs and 'granny Russells' Greyhounds, well bred APBTs etc on the other hand, all have long, deep elliptical chests to allow for the all important air to get in and out with maximum efficiency. To be fair though, I've never sat myself down and visually compared any working dog/pup to an imaginary ideal. You either have an 'eye' or you don't, imho. good advice rainmaker the clapper is put up by some one whos had a dog they think is a lurcher (for how long ) (and what cross is it ) and quotes absolute nonsense written by a complete idiot ive had working lurchers for over forty years and in that time have accquired some knowledge . i with a friend in the past prepares cob horses to win major shows all over the country including supreme champion at the royal england so i think im in a better posistion than yourself to pass an opinion on conformation on working animals and unlike yourself it is my own opinion based on experience unlike your selfs which is based on some one elses who as equally inexperienced as yourself . now get back to your book of rubbish or where ever it is your getting this crap from . and like i told you before dont try and undermine me or try and take the piss you would be better of listening you might learn some thing then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
labsnlurchers 39 Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 when looking at confirmation a barrel chest is a must because that is where the lungs and heart is and when exerted they expand so a barrel chest is an assett a wide front shows a good centre of gravity which gives a dog balance... Quite the opposite. A barrel chest is massively inferior to a deep, elliptical chest with well sprung ribs. Think of the heart and lungs as bellows stoking a fire... A barrel shaped chest is, by definition, already "inflated" (rounded) in shape and thus has far less room for expansion and contraction (less air in and out at each 'stroke') than does a well sprung elliptical one. The only dogs I've seen with barrel chests are show Staffords, English Bulldogs and 'granny Russells' Greyhounds, well bred APBTs etc on the other hand, all have long, deep elliptical chests to allow for the all important air to get in and out with maximum efficiency. To be fair though, I've never sat myself down and visually compared any working dog/pup to an imaginary ideal. You either have an 'eye' or you don't, imho. good advice rainmaker the clapper is put up by some one whos had a dog they think is a lurcher (for how long ) (and what cross is it ) and quotes absolute nonsense written by a complete idiot ive had working lurchers for over forty years and in that time have accquired some knowledge . i with a friend in the past prepares cob horses to win major shows all over the country including supreme champion at the royal england so i think im in a better posistion than yourself to pass an opinion on conformation on working animals and unlike yourself it is my own opinion based on experience unlike your selfs which is based on some one elses who as equally inexperienced as yourself . now get back to your book of rubbish or where ever it is your getting this crap from . and like i told you before dont try and undermine me or try and take the piss you would be better of listening you might learn some thing then I put the clapper up, same as i did on your post, because i welcome and respect EVERYONES opinions even when they are different from my own. Just to answer your questions I have 7 lurchers and 2 gundogs (3 bull x, 1 beddi whippet, 1 beddi whippet collie grey, 2 bull labd grey and 2 pedigree labs) all working well and true to their type. I have been born and bred with working dogs and horses, my parents bred them, my grandma bred them and her parents bred them. My partner was also born and bred into lurcher work. The original thread i put up was written by my freind and her and her family eat sleep and breath working dogs and she is no idiot, thats rude of you to call someone who you know nothing about. The things she wrote were based on HPR's and it is down to the reader to use their own inteligence to interpret it and use it for their chosen breed. I put this thread up to help people with tips and advice on what to look for with regards to good conformation in a working dog, and also to highlight the importance of good conformation for the future health of working dogs not to cause arguments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
otter 61 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 more idiots on here than in an asylum tou wouldnt know a dog if one cocked his leg up the side of you young women and keyboard hunters quoting nonsence theyve read thats been written by fools and try to argue the attributes of a working dog Fenmaster , your above quote is the best one on this thread Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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