Guys & Gals . . . .

[Grim Reaper 1]

I have (but won't bother again TBH! ) 'popped' in 'over there' and made a reply or two to THIS thread, I would be interested in what your opinions are on it - in respect of the article in the agw december 2008 by matt manning, in which he says about the pre=loading up of air rifle magazines prior to making a shooting trip.?

 

I have always thought this not to be the correct thing to do, because as far as I am aware, a magazine pre-loaded with pellets (even if it is nowhere near the rifle itself during transit from home to shooting site) is deemed in Law to be a firearm? I am sure that is right, but am willing (as always) to stand to be corrected on this?

 

 

 

Regards,

Grim.

[Fidgety 8]

I always understood that a magazine, or pellet, should not be present IN the rifle (Common sense really). However, I have never seen any written law on it, just what i've been told by others.

Imagine the scenario ..... walking down the road, gun in bag (loaded mag in) cops want a closer look, one cycle of bolt and ready to fire! Now if i was a cop, I'd not be happy about that! However, if the mag was loaded, but in a seperate pocket, its far less likely to cause alarm.

Interesting, I'd like to know what the actual law states ........ I bet Deker knows!

[T78 4]

i always thought a loaded mag was pretty much the same as a loaded rifle in the eyes of the law?but can't remember if and where i've seen this stated as fact!

[davyt63 1,845]

hi grim

found this

Definition of a loaded firearm regarding airguns

22.13 Section 57(6) of the 1968 Act includes a definition of “loaded†in relation to shot guns and air weapons. An air weapon is to be treated as loaded if there is a pellet in the breech, even if the compression necessary to fire the gun is not present; and in the case of a shot gun or air weapon having a loaded magazine, the gun is to be treated as loaded, even though there is no round in the breech.

 

Source: Home Office - Firearms Law Guidance to the Police 2002

 

hope this helps

 

davy

[Grim Reaper 1]

hi grim

found this

Definition of a loaded firearm regarding airguns

22.13 Section 57(6) of the 1968 Act includes a definition of “loaded†in relation to shot guns and air weapons. An air weapon is to be treated as loaded if there is a pellet in the breech, even if the compression necessary to fire the gun is not present; and in the case of a shot gun or air weapon having a loaded magazine, the gun is to be treated as loaded, even though there is no round in the breech.

 

Source: Home Office - Firearms Law Guidance to the Police 2002

 

hope this helps

 

davy

 

 

Yes Davy, I too have that document, as well as others, and that is what I was given to believe as well?

 

It was how I was taught from day one really, so by now, for me, it is second nature I guess?

 

 

 

Regards,

Grim.

[Grim Reaper 1]

i always thought a loaded mag was pretty much the same as a loaded rifle in the eyes of the law?but can't remember if and where i've seen this stated as fact!

 

 

This is the thing i was trying to get across, but like you, where I have seen it eludes me at this moment. I will, if i find out where, let you all know.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Grim.

[andy s410c 61]

Remembering my SA80 drill,a magazine of 30 rounds in the tmh was deemed a loaded weapon,then cocking it as ready So i always travel with the mag out of the gun, safety catch on & pellets in a pouch on my waist,so if i get stopped it should keep the plod happy..... Edited to add even if the mag is empty on the SA80 it is treat as a loaded gun so the same applies to a multi-shot mag???.....well thats the principal i work on

[mad al 146]

"Super Administrator" , still the same old "Dark Side" then I think if you've loaded mags on ya and the plod find them and want a result, that will possibly be the day we find out what is what , until then I think keeping them separate and empty is safe and good practice. I never go on public roads with any weapons but years ago it was always a recognised thing to "break" the weapon, so with PCP's surely the same is seen by no mag or no pellet?

[Tyla 3,179]

Bloody hell Do they always talk / type like that?!?!? i never got to the end of the discussion as i'd already died of boredom!

 

Hurray for THL , i couldnt wade through all that everytime i logged on

[stealthy1 3,964]

I always load both mags on my HW100T, but never put one in until I reach my permission, thought that was what you were meant to do.

[stealthy1 3,964]

I may ring the local fire arms officer and ask, that way I won't wind up with a firearms charge on my sheet.

[SportingShooter 0]

I can see where youre coming from Grim, I know I've seen it somewhere, just cant think where

 

But you are right and wrong. Such is the glee of Firearms Law I'm afraid. Everyone is both right and wrong when it comes to Firearms Law it seems.

 

You are legally entitled to carry an unloaded Shotgun or Air Rifle in a Public place if it is a securely fastened cover, i.e. a Slip or Hardcase.

 

Then again, if you consider an Air Gun, which has a removable magazine, you are legally held accountable if the magazine is "filled" which then accompanies the rifle in the case/cover but not placed in the breach.

 

As Dixy said, a shotgun, is either loaded or not (in the majority of cases) as the Breech or Magazines are either filled or not, but this issue with Air Guns seems to be a Grey area. (Surely not another one )

 

If I detract slightly, the chap who has written the article, put a live and severely injured Rabbit in his pocket to let it die there? WTF is he on. That screams to me as someone who has no conscience of what he is doing or about to do, a Hooray Henry. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

I've seen Mixy Rabbits when I'm out lamping at dusk, now 9/10 times I'll have the centrefire with me for foxes which is £1 a shot, does that bother me? Or that I may not shoot a fox from the report of the Rifle? No. Crosshairs, Bang. Out of its Misery, as I'm sure everyone here does.

 

SS

[ulverston moocher 60]

when I bought my s410 in with the manuell there was a warning leaflet from air arms put and that said that even if you have a loaded magazine in your pocket and the gun on your back in the sling the police can and do still class it as a loaded weapon.hope this helps guys.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

The last dealing I had with an ARU was a positive one. It was in a gun shop and they were checking up on a suspicious character seen loitering nearby.

 

I asked the question about this and they told me to keep the gun unloaded. Pellets in one pocket. Empty magazines in the other. That was their interpretation of the law and they said that tended to act based on the events at the time. Basically, to subdue, arrest and then let the technicalities be argued by lawyers as it's their duty to act on the fly.

 

His argument was that while airguns aren't generally viewed as personal defence/attack weapons, slapping in a magazine and shooting is easier than dropping the rifle, taking out the pellets, taking out the magazines, loading the pellets into the magazine, picking up the rifle and then loading the rifle is much time consuming and allows them to intervene. Of course this won't stop the criminal but it does tend to be situation calmer when there is an MP5 pointed at you.

 

Regardless of the technicality I heed his advice. I'd rather be inconvenienced for a couple minutes than be a smart arse and argue my point in a court of law. As most shooters will agree this is an area where we have a lot to lose and little to gain. I'd rather help these guys out, by letting them assess that I'm legit, than to waste their time from dealing with real criminals. It's an issue of principle, I understand, but my dealings with the ARU lads have always been positive and in this particular instance I would like to make their life, and mine, as easy as possible when it comes to dealing with the law abiding shooter. At some time in the future our courtesy may save us from the next load of legal turmoil.

[Grim Reaper 1]

Thanks for your reply on this Chris - much appreciated.

 

 

 

Regards,

Grim.