12 bore shot guns heavy

[hily 380]

A lot of my shooting pals are going for 20 bore shotguns they say that they are a lot lighter to carry when you'r out rough shooting all day and because they are lighter you can still swing through your quary when you are tired at the end of a day walking about, is this the case or is it because me and pals are getting on a bit. I still use s/s 12 bore but must admit when i borrowed a 20 bore for an hours walkabout in the summer i did like it and i had a few kleen kills with it. So do i get myself a 20 bore or not .Any comments an 12 20 or even 16 bores for rough shooting.

[ferret boy charlie 0]

A lot of my shooting pals are going for 20 bore shotguns they say that they are a lot lighter to carry when you'r out rough shooting all day and because they are lighter you can still swing through your quary when you are tired at the end of a day walking about, is this the case or is it because me and pals are getting on a bit. I still use s/s 12 bore but must admit when i borrowed a 20 bore for an hours walkabout in the summer i did like it and i had a few kleen kills with it. So do i get myself a 20 bore or not .Any comments an 12 20 or even 16 bores for rough shooting.

ive got a 1020 and it will kill what the 12 bore kills relly nice gun to handle and i can carry it all day with a ferret box on my back without getting too tired

[SportingShooter 0]

You can have light 12 bores and heavy 20 bores

 

On the whole, the 20 in the majority of guns will be lighter than a 12. I've got a soft spot for the 20 bore and owned one up until a few weeks back, but I just didn't use it.

 

I shoot with one gun for almost anything shotgun wise, which is my 12 bore Miroku Trap Gun, its what I shoot best with so stick to it.

 

Advantages and Disadvantages

 

Advantages

 

Light weight (Mostly).

 

Will kill anything a 12 will.

 

Lighter loads for younger and older shooters alike if necessary.

 

Disadvantages

 

Ammunition is more expensive.

 

Light weight coupled with heavier loads equals more recoil.

 

More expensive to buy than a 12 bore in most cases.

 

Up to you, try and shoot a few and see if you like them or not.

 

SS

[SNAP SHOT 194]

the 20 bore is every bit as good a gun as the 12 bore, there is a little more room for error with the 12 bore due to a bigger load in the shell on the 12 bore, the 20 bore is a nice gun but has as said less room for error, killing wise if your on the money its a great gun, with a good range too.

however i don't know what price the shells are over there but the 20 bore tend to be more expensive over here, maybe due to the 12 bore being the most used shotgun.......hope this is of help to you..

[spiderpig 39]

the 20 bore is every bit as good a gun as the 12 bore, there is a little more room for error with the 12 bore due to a bigger load in the shell on the 12 bore, the 20 bore is a nice gun but has as said less room for error, killing wise if your on the money its a great gun, with a good range too.

however i don't know what price the shells are over there but the 20 bore tend to be more expensive over here, maybe due to the 12 bore being the most used shotgun.......hope this is of help to you..

any calibre is as effective as any other its just the smaller the calibre the tighter the pattern but the longer the shot string.20s are a sweet little gun without making the jump down to a 28 bore.try one you will enjoy it.

 

i shoot a 30inch 410 at everything and love it to bits i graduated from 12 to 20 to 28 to this,,makes things a challenge and gives you great satisfaction.

[hily 380]

thanks lads for your thoughts and taken the time to reply i think my decision will be more about cost now as all agrea that 20 can be as effective as a 12 bore

[SNAP SHOT 194]

the 20 bore is every bit as good a gun as the 12 bore, there is a little more room for error with the 12 bore due to a bigger load in the shell on the 12 bore, the 20 bore is a nice gun but has as said less room for error, killing wise if your on the money its a great gun, with a good range too.

however i don't know what price the shells are over there but the 20 bore tend to be more expensive over here, maybe due to the 12 bore being the most used shotgun.......hope this is of help to you..

any calibre is as effective as any other its just the smaller the calibre the tighter the pattern but the longer the shot string.20s are a sweet little gun without making the jump down to a 28 bore.try one you will enjoy it.

 

i shoot a 30inch 410 at everything and love it to bits i graduated from 12 to 20 to 28 to this,,makes things a challenge and gives you great satisfaction.

 

i did shoot a 20 for a day a browning that my mate bought recently, i have to say its a sweet gun but i have great sucess with my browning gold fusion semi-auto,

yes i agree also on the challenge you gave yourself with the shotty, drives up the skill level somewhat,

[max abell 196]

HI THERE

I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING FOR 30 ODD YEARS AND ALWAYS USED A BERETTA 686 GAME 12 UP TO THIS YEAR

BUT AFTER HAVING A DAY WITH MY MATES 20 BORE I PART EXED MY 12 FOR A 20 AND ABSOLUTLY LOVE I KILL

JUST AS MUCH AS I DID WITH MY 12 BUT WITHOUT THE WEIGHT OR RECOIL AND PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER

GO BACK TO A 12 AGAIN

BUT THIS IS ONLY PERSONAL OPPINION AND OTHERS WILL SAY DIFFERENT TRY BOTH FOR YOURSELF AND GO

WITH WHAT YOU LIKE BOTH 12 AND 20 ARE VERY EFFECTIVE GUNS

GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING

[tom1cameron 1]

Nothing wrong with a 20. The science says that a 20 can kill, but it cant kill as effectively at longer ranges as a 12 can (like a 12 vs 10) with the same type of cartridge. This is because, while it has a slightly tighter spread, it uses less powder and less shot, often of smaller sizes that loose energy faster than larger shot at longer ranges.

 

The problem then is, if you shoot hardy wild pheasants or higher driven birds, that you need a better quality and heavier loads in the 20 to do the job. The lighter gun can then give quite some recoil when using those more appropriate loads.

 

(Before anyone objects and tells me how they killed a Rhino at 80yds with a 28grm load of 7's in a 20)

This is what the science says, their will be exceptions.

 

So my advice would be to think about what you want to shoot. If live quarry and allways going to be driven/crossers at max 40yds or going away at max 30yds then the 20 is suitable. If you want a more evrsatile gun I would go with the 12, especially if you are going to be shooting any large waterfowl.

 

If the gun is suitable for what you do I would by a good quality gas operated semi auto 12 bore. A shiny one may also be welcome on a driven shoot. There is also a new beretta s/a that has break barrell technology so it looks like a O/U when not in use!

Alternatively test the specialised "light" O/U's. The Browning Hunter and the Beretta Sp come in light versions.

 

T

[SportingShooter 0]

I have to object to some of that Tom, I shant say which bits as it would cause two arguments in the shooting section in a fortnight

 

I'd like to see any driven shoot accept a Semi in the next 20 years. The light O/U's are very, very good guns to shoot, the Beretta Ultralight is very handy to carry around all day, and weighs about the same as a 20 at 5.9 lbs.

 

JMHO.

 

SS

[Deker 3,478]

You can have light 12 bores and heavy 20 bores

 

On the whole, the 20 in the majority of guns will be lighter than a 12. I've got a soft spot for the 20 bore and owned one up until a few weeks back, but I just didn't use it.

 

I shoot with one gun for almost anything shotgun wise, which is my 12 bore Miroku Trap Gun, its what I shoot best with so stick to it.

 

Advantages and Disadvantages

 

Advantages

 

Light weight (Mostly).

 

Will kill anything a 12 will.

 

Lighter loads for younger and older shooters alike if necessary.

 

Disadvantages

 

Ammunition is more expensive.

 

Light weight coupled with heavier loads equals more recoil.

 

More expensive to buy than a 12 bore in most cases.

 

Up to you, try and shoot a few and see if you like them or not.

 

SS

 

 

I would go along with that and Stress ..DON'T buy a 20 and then use heavy loads..you willl know about it.....BUT also remember their is a MUCH wider choice of 12g shotguns and plenty of "light weight" field guns to select from....and whilst it may also seem tragic in some cases, there are not many you can't fit a sling to if you really want!!!

[tom1cameron 1]

I'd like to see any driven shoot accept a Semi in the next 20 years.........

 

I too would like to see driven shoots accept a S/A or two......... they did up north near Inverness for the release of a new Benelli, it was in one of the magazines. Too much gun snobbery about.

 

If you are talking about the science of 20g then you can object all day long if you wish, it wont change the facts.

Occassionaly knocking birds out the sky is not the same as 90% predicted lethality-at-range (see CONSEP or BASC lethality tables).

For the "above average but not exceptional shooter", if you want an all round er, buy a light 12g.

 

I expect we would agree once we see what exceptions we place on our arguments.

 

My point was as Dekers, there is no point buying a 20g to do the job at 12g used to do, as you will need heavy carts, a 20g has some restrictions. By that I am not saying it is a bad gun. If I could afford it I would have a 20g in my own collection for rough shooting. But I would never use a 20g if my quarry was always driven pheasant or duck.

 

My first gun was a Kestrel S/S BLNE 20g. Loved it. Could shoot pheasant, pigeon, woodies, snipe and duck with it all day long. But cant hit a barn door with a S/S now!

Edited November 28, 2008 by tom1cameron

[spiderpig 39]

I'd like to see any driven shoot accept a Semi in the next 20 years.........

 

I too would like to see driven shoots accept a S/A or two......... they did up north near Inverness for the release of a new Benelli, it was in one of the magazines. Too much gun snobbery about.

 

If you are talking about the science of 20g then you can object all day long if you wish, it wont change the facts.

Occassionaly knocking birds out the sky is not the same as 90% predicted lethality-at-range (see CONSEP or BASC lethality tables).

For the "above average but not exceptional shooter", if you want an all round er, buy a light 12g.

 

I expect we would agree once we see what exceptions we place on our arguments.

 

My point was as Dekers, there is no point buying a 20g to do the job at 12g used to do, as you will need heavy carts, a 20g has some restrictions. By that I am not saying it is a bad gun. If I could afford it I would have a 20g in my own collection for rough shooting. But I would never use a 20g if my quarry was always driven pheasant or duck.

 

My first gun was a Kestrel S/S BLNE 20g. Loved it. Could shoot pheasant, pigeon, woodies, snipe and duck with it all day long. But cant hit a barn door with a S/S now!

where is the science on this? i dont belive it at all.

[tom1cameron 1]

where is the science on this? i dont belive it at all.

 

 

And I suppose you don't belive in Santa either. Tut tut

 

It is on shot size, velocity, energy, shot count, choke, barrell length, load

The data are in mixed places from your own software you can download from various US universities/private locations (as the UK is too tight to support any research of this type but there is a good group at Cranfield), you could speak to various Ballistics specialists at proof houses. Some of the data has come from the UK via BASC and some of those results are published in their annual reviews, but they are still working on 20g so it is not published yet. But I can assure you it is interesting so far and it will confirm what I am saying.

 

If you really want to see the science go and look for it. Most of the best information is US based and led by CONSEP and their consultants. There data given minimum pellet counts by load and shot size for various metallic shot types at different ranges and it is clear that 20g runs out of steam before 12g and 12g before 10g order to meet the, and I stress this, "90% likely lethality at range".

 

What that means is, if you are actually good enough to fire at 100 crossing ducks each at 50yds and hit those vital areas every time. 90% lethality is less likely using a 20g than a 12g as on average 20g loads have lower energy and shot counts and shot sizes than what 12g game carts have. Like for like they have less energy and shot counts. Sure if you use the same load weight and shot size and powder to fire them all at the same velocity in a 12g and a 20g, then you overcome this problem, but you will have a very sore nose and shoulder!

 

CONSEP lethality tables are difficult to come by but you can find them in several US state hunting handbooks (print versions only as the tables are copyrighted). The data is genuine and based on up to 22000 live quarry shots, observations and dissections (that is for steel).

 

Remember science is not about 100% proof, it is about probability.

 

ANYWAY the point was about whether to buy a 20g and I think the gentleman has already made up his mind.

20g is not a match for, but a very good alternative to a 12g for hunting larger quarry. My points were only to stress not to make the decision without considering the size, range and speed of your quarry when you normally shoot at it.

 

Best wishes

Dr Tom

Edited November 28, 2008 by tom1cameron

[spiderpig 39]

And I suppose you don't belive in Santa either. Tut tut

 

It is on shot size, velocity, energy, shot count, choke, barrell length, load

The data are in mixed places from your own software you can download from various US universities/private locations (as the UK is too tight to support any research of this type but there is a good group at Cranfield), you could speak to various Ballistics specialists at proof houses. Some of the data has come from the UK via BASC and some of those results are published in their annual reviews, but they are still working on 20g so it is not published yet. But I can assure you it is interesting so far and it will confirm what I am saying.

 

If you really want to see the science go and look for it. Most of the best information is US based and led by CONSEP and their consultants. There data given minimum pellet counts by load and shot size for various metallic shot types at different ranges and it is clear that 20g runs out of steam before 12g and 12g before 10g order to meet the, and I stress this, "90% likely lethality at range".

 

What that means is, if you are actually good enough to fire at 100 crossing ducks each at 50yds and hit those vital areas every time. 90% lethality is less likely using a 20g than a 12g as on average 20g loads have lower energy and shot counts and shot sizes than what 12g game carts have. Like for like they have less energy and shot counts. Sure if you use the same load weight and shot size and powder to fire them all at the same velocity in a 12g and a 20g, then you overcome this problem, but you will have a very sore nose and shoulder!

 

CONSEP lethality tables are difficult to come by but you can find them in several US state hunting handbooks (print versions only as the tables are copyrighted). The data is genuine and based on up to 22000 live quarry shots, observations and dissections (that is for steel).

 

Remember science is not about 100% proof, it is about probability.

 

ANYWAY the point was about whether to buy a 20g and I think the gentleman has already made up his mind.

20g is not a match for, but a very good alternative to a 12g for hunting larger quarry. My points were only to stress not to make the decision without considering the size, range and speed of your quarry when you normally shoot at it.

 

Best wishes

Dr Tom

quite ofter it is only 1 or 2 pellets which actually hit a bird and ill it,a pellet from a 12 .20,or even a 410 is traveling at the same speed and energy if they are the same size,yes a 12 has more powder but contains a heavier load,therfore les powder and lighter load euals the same balistics,its only the pattern that is dffernt and a small gauge has a smaller pattern but a longer string so if you can hit them then you can often achive better kills than that of a 12,if i was shooting large game though i.e foxes ect i would stick to a 12 allday long.but smaller calibres are no more or less leathal than than there larger partners.