deer rifle

[Yokel Matt 918]

This isn't a willy waving contest.

 

Maybe that's why we haven't anything from Darcy on this thread

[CUBE 0]

SNAP SHOT - does that mean if you are a new member and you pick up on someone talking PISH then you can't respond appropriately?????

 

 

SNAP SHOT - does that mean if you are a new member and you pick up on someone talking PISH then you can't respond appropriately?????

The opinion is not the problem, its how its made. IMHO

Yes, the assertion that a bigger calibre gives you more room for mistake is a fair one, it generally does. But being told we know nothing doesn't really win friends and influence people

 

And the original point, now somewhat murky in the mists of tangential abuse, was about whether 243 or 6.5, we're saying 243 kills everything and is commonplace and cheap, so does the job.

 

 

By all means cube everyone is free to their opinion and entitled to it, it's just when jibs and sly comments are put up, it's doing the member who asked the question no good, And turn's into a mud slinging match rather than a good ol debate,

That's all i'm saying...........cheers SS.

 

Point taken - apologies for any offence I've caused.

[Mr_Logic 5]

After asking around and doing my own research i chose a 6.5x55 for what appears to be more traditional values. I didn't want a .308 but was under the (all-be-it naive) impression that a .243 was a vermin rifle first and a deer rifle second. I don't shoot many fox's but wanted the option too and the 6.5 seemed like the perfect all-rounder for me (I was also wooed by the techy stats like the high BC and SD's ). I happen to shoot quite well with it. Balistically using factory ammo its not as flat or quick as a .243 but it doesn't really matter. It you have to holdover 3" or 6" its still going to be a 200yrd + shot and a judgement, confidance and experiance call for the shooter.

 

IMO if your shooting roe or red, a 95gr .243 or a 140 6.5 in the boiler room will do the job. Whether it drops on the spot or runs 100 yards depends more on the individual animal and its awareness than the caliber. Being able to shoot sub MOA in range conditions is all well and good but not relevant in this discussion IMO.

 

Edited to say my initial impressions of a .243 being a vermin rifle first were down to unfamiliarity with the caliber as a stalking tool as opposed to practical opinion.

I shoot sub-MOA in field conditions, and that really does count! Range work is also essential - how do you place a bullet accurately if you don't know drop and windage? How do you get those apart from shooting at targets?

 

Deerstalker - as and when my 243 gets back I am quite happy to come up and prove that it knocks over deer just fine

[Guest Deerstalker]

It is NOT the size of the bullet that counts, it is the man behind the rifle.

I do not know the man behind the gun and nor dose any one else. He asked a simple question that was to choose between a . .243 and a 6.5

Now if you want to get on to who is the best shot etc then that's a different post.

 

LOCAL WROTE that the .243 is faster etc and flatter and that is truly bollocks but if you would swap your 6.5 for a .243 i would be very surprised as i don't know any one that has went back the way.

Now i have had and used a ,243 for many a season and shot other calibres eg .270 30 06 .

 

Fact the 6.5 will knock a deer down harder than a 243 .It don't mater if your a good shot or not .I am not judging you lot mearly stating facts.

 

I do feel that any experienced stalkers i have spoken to or had the pleasure to stalk with have had runners misses and other problems with there rifles and there selves this is the only place i have come across a place were chaps who have a combined experience of 70 years have never missed or injured a deer.

 

Mr Logic you are more than welcome but i will not be looking for you gun to knock deer over i am looking for it to out perform my 6.5

 

ANIMALS DIY BECAUSE OF THE WOUND CHANNEL THE BIGGER THE CHANNEL THE QUICKER THEY WILL DIE FAT

[mattydski 560]

It is NOT the size of the bullet that counts, it is the man behind the rifle. Now that is the statement of a fool.

I do not know the man behind the gun and nor dose any one else. He asked a simple question that was to choose between a . .243 and a 6.5

Now if you want to get on to who is the best shot etc then that's a different post.

 

LOCAL WROTE that the .243 is faster etc and flatter and that is truly bollocks but if you would swap your 6.5 for a .243 i would be very surprised as i don't know any one that has went back the way.

Now i have had and used a ,243 for many a season and shot other calibres eg .270 30 06 . So my judgement is on actual field used not some stupid i have a .243 and ill defend it like my daughters virginity

 

Fact the 6.5 will knock a deer down harder than a 243 .It don't mater if your a good shot or not .I am not judging you lot mearly stating facts.

 

I do feel that any experienced stalkers i have spoken to or had the pleasure to stalk with have had runners misses and other problems with there rifles and there selves this is the only place i have come across a place were chaps who have a combined experience of 70 years have never missed or injured a deer.

 

Mr Logic you are more than welcome but i will not be looking for you gun to knock deer over i am looking for it to out perform my 6.5

 

ANIMALS DIY BECAUSE OF THE WOUND CHANNEL THE BIGGER THE CHANNEL THE QUICKER THEY WILL DIE FAT

 

 

 

As i have allready said, its not opinion thats the problem its how its put...

 

I suggest that if your opinion isnt worthy of debate in a constructive manner, your opinion isn't worth debating.. JMHO

[Yokel Matt 918]

I shoot sub-MOA in field conditions, and that really does count! Range work is also essential - how do you place a bullet accurately if you don't know drop and windage? How do you get those apart from shooting at targets?

 

I think i've confused the issue What i mean was that in the vast majority of stalks any sort or aim adjustment or holdover does not even come into play because the range is less than 175 yards and you're shot is either +/- an inch or so. I thought the terminal peformance of the two calibers was being called into question as opposed to the accuracy

 

Practise and accuracy go hand in hand and are, of course, very important. I can shoot MOA off a bipod prone on a range at 100 yards but not standing off sticks or in some ad-hoc, semi-comfortable position which is what the majority of my experiance is based on

 

Edited to say i won't be chopping my 6.5 for a .243 as IMHO i prefer it for a deer cartridge. However Its just my opinion and i haven't put enough deer on the floor to know any better. Either way i couldn't give a toss if someone tells me i've made the wrong choice... i'm well chuffed with it.

 

PeakOil... either will serve the purpose well, .243 ammo is probably cheeper and with a greater variety as its a yankee cartridge.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Local

[Gabriel 0]

ANIMALS DIY BECAUSE OF THE WOUND CHANNEL THE BIGGER THE CHANNEL THE QUICKER THEY WILL DIE FAT

 

Anyway, that statement of yours isn't strictly true. Is it?

 

Death occurs in one of 3 ways:

1. Rapid loss of blood pressure, depriving the central nervous system of oxygen

2. Physical interference with nerve pathways

3. Both of the above.

 

So.....

Large calibre + bad shot placement = big wound + animal alive (for a while at least)

Moderate calibre + good shot placement = smaller wound + animal humanely dead.

 

Placement. PERIOD!

We seem to have lost the focus of Gluebeam's original request for information. Back on topic please.

[SportingShooter 0]

My statement, which you quote there is perfectly true. A Stalker who has never fired a rifle in his life, could spend all day shooting at Deer with a .243, 6.5, 300 Win Mag, hell, a .458 Winchester. Matters extremely little, put a shot in the stomach of a deer, he will bleed to death the same with a 6.5 as he will a .243.

 

We all have the same kill zone. Head, Neck, Heart/Lungs.

 

I repeat again my statement which I made earlier on in this thread. The professional stalkers in the 50's and 60's did not even give anything as large as a 6.5 a second look.

 

.22 Hornet was a very widely used calibre for Reds, now that fires a 35/40gr bullet, it was put in the right place, by the man behind the rifle. And the Deer died.

 

That is as simple as I can put it and with a real life example to go along with it.

 

I do not like some of the ridicule you are pointing at some of the members on this thread, they have a passion for stalking and put as many hours as they can to go and do it.

 

I am not lucky enough to have Deer near my home, I have to travel a very long way to Stalk, I use both a .243 and a 6.5. The most recent being a 6.5. I put the crosshairs on the exact same spot as I did with the .243 and the Deer still fell over.

 

They will die the same if they have no Heart, No Brain, or no Artery/Spinal Cord in the Neck.

 

Back to Gluebeam. As you can see by this thread, the opinion's of others will matter very little. Go and try both. If you get to a range with a Gunshop, try out both and see what you think, pick the one you are comfortable shooting and carrying. It will come down to your instincts in the end.

 

SS

[Duck Down 98 0]

i am looking to buy a rifle to shoot sika deer with. i was thinking of a .243

i would love some advice on calibre/make model/ optics. my budget is about 800 including scope any ideas?

 

243 will knock sika over all day long, thats all we mainly shoot down our way but remember with what ever calibre you get, its all about shot placement!

[Mr_Logic 5]

I shoot sub-MOA in field conditions, and that really does count! Range work is also essential - how do you place a bullet accurately if you don't know drop and windage? How do you get those apart from shooting at targets?

 

I think i've confused the issue What i mean was that in the vast majority of stalks any sort or aim adjustment or holdover does not even come into play because the range is less than 175 yards and you're shot is either +/- an inch or so. I thought the terminal peformance of the two calibers was being called into question as opposed to the accuracy

 

Practise and accuracy go hand in hand and are, of course, very important. I can shoot MOA off a bipod prone on a range at 100 yards but not standing off sticks or in some ad-hoc, semi-comfortable position which is what the majority of my experiance is based on

 

Edited to say i won't be chopping my 6.5 for a .243 as IMHO i prefer it for a deer cartridge. However Its just my opinion and i haven't put enough deer on the floor to know any better. Either way i couldn't give a toss if someone tells me i've made the wrong choice... i'm well chuffed with it.

 

PeakOil... either will serve the purpose well, .243 ammo is probably cheeper and with a greater variety as its a yankee cartridge.

OK, I think we're on the same side here, just different ways of putting it! My shooting in the field is often off a bipod, hence the comment. I don't have the comfy conditions of the range to rely on. Off sticks I don't shoot MOA, don't shoot off sticks! Off rests and so on I shoot well enough.

 

At the end of the day a deer is a large target, but excellent shot placement is the key. Heck, you can kill a red stag with a 22LR, you just gotta put it in the right place.

[Guest Deerstalker]

[i will need to assume that the shot placement is the same for both rifles weather good or bad.

What rifle would i choose out of the two the 6.5 WHY ? Because it hits deer or anything else it shoots harder than a .243 . Now you don't know me and i don't know you so shot placement is not a factor in this question .

What i will asks is how many that have said they would choose a .243 above a 6.5 have used one for seasons before down grading to the smaller calibre.

 

ps gabriel you forgot to say old age in your post But now you have made the post of the two calibres placed ion the same spot good or bad which would cause death first.

 

Who ever said to the chap to try both is being rather foolish IMHO because there is no way he can see the effects of both rifles on his chosen quarrie which is sika deer.

[SportingShooter 0]

Who ever said to the chap to try both is being rather foolish IMHO because there is no way he can see the effects of both rifles on his chosen quarrie which is sika deer.

So you are telling the chap not to go and fire both the calibres in a selection of rifles to check not just for Energy, seen as you cannot do that at a range, but for recoil, weight, barrel length, balance, etc etc etc

 

I Must be a fool for telling him to do that.

[Duck Down 98 0]

[i will need to assume that the shot placement is the same for both rifles weather good or bad.

What rifle would i choose out of the two the 6.5 WHY ? Because it hits deer or anything else it shoots harder than a .243 . Now you don't know me and i don't know you so shot placement is not a factor in this question .

What i will asks is how many that have said they would choose a .243 above a 6.5 have used one for seasons before down grading to the smaller calibre.

 

ps gabriel you forgot to say old age in your post But now you have made the post of the two calibres placed ion the same spot good or bad which would cause death first.

 

Who ever said to the chap to try both is being rather foolish IMHO because there is no way he can see the effects of both rifles on his chosen quarrie which is sika deer.

 

so what are we saying then! um shot placement is'nt a factor,

 

all i was saying is a .243 will put a sika down first shot every time if you shoot it in the right place. If you need to use a 6.5 because its harder hitting then perhaps try shooting targets at the range untill you know where to shoot dear to kill them cleanly!

 

6.5's are a good calibre but all i was saying is that a .243 can safely kill a sika/red/roe whatever as long as you put the shot in the right place (shot placement)

[SNAP SHOT 194]

ANIMALS DIY BECAUSE OF THE WOUND CHANNEL THE BIGGER THE CHANNEL THE QUICKER THEY WILL DIE FAT

 

Erm. I didn't know animals were into fixing stuff.

 

Anyway, that statement of yours isn't strictly true. Is it?

 

Death occurs in one of 3 ways:

1. Rapid loss of blood pressure, depriving the central nervous system of oxygen

2. Physical interference with nerve pathways

3. Both of the above.

 

So.....

Large calibre + bad shot placement = big wound + animal alive (for a while at least)

Moderate calibre + good shot placement = smaller wound + animal humanely dead.

 

Placement. PERIOD!

We seem to have lost the focus of Gluebeam's original request for information. Back on topic please, what do you think JohnG?

 

Well said that man...........

 

Right it's getting crazy here, i have in the past owned a 6.5x55 sako s/s and had a remmy .243, got rid of the 6.5 and bought a tikka 595 s/s which i have shot till now and i'm getting a rebuild done come feb on it. SO i do know the two calibres well, one friend shoots a 6.5x55 always as HE likes the calibre.......my other stalking friend had a .270, and changed it for a sako 85 varmint s/s 20 inch barrel for yes Stalking..... So i do happen to know a few who changed calibres but did not consider it a down grade...........Now here are some specs for you to dwell over seeing i'm a novice here........

Now having spent a while in uniform........i have fired more rounds in one year than maybe you have in your whole life....... So don't tell me i don't know what i'm talking about......i'm keeping this civil here..........so here goes......bullets taken 95g sst by hornady .243 muzzle velocity 2900fps

also 129g sp 6.5 muzzle velocity 2400fps rounds i have both fired........

 

at 100 yards the .243 95g sst has a striking energy of 1470 ft/lbs at 300 yards energy is 986ft/lbs and 300 yards drop is 13.1"

at 100 yards the 6.5 129g sp has a striking energy of 1403 ft/lbs at 300 yards energy is 997 ft/lbs and 300 yards drop is 19.6"

 

Now tell me which one is better because at 100 yards the .243 has 67 ft/lbs more energy than the 6.5 and at 300 yards there is only 11ft/lbs a difference, going by this make your decisions as you see it depends on alot of things but these are facts..........NOT FICTION.......

 

We can play about all day argueing but facts are facts and if you change bullets things may change for better or worse.......knowledge is the key.....

but as all said on here how many shots are taken at long range on deer.....? the ansewer is yours and yours alone for you are the one pulling the trigger...

 

enjoy the season i'm finished replying to this topic, and as for the question the decision i would recommend is shoot both see which you like the feel of

take everything into consideration, and nothing for granted........ .............SS

[CUBE 0]

i am looking to buy a rifle to shoot sika deer with. i was thinking of a .243

i would love some advice on calibre/make model/ optics. my budget is about 800 including scope any ideas?

 

The original post I think.

 

So, you want to know what rifle / optic to buy. The various peeps on here can provide you with a wee bit of direction but at the end of the day you need to make your own mind up and that should / probably be based upon a couple of points. 1 - What you feel most comforatble with, which will be based upon 2 - that which you have used to shoot before (I assume rightly or wrongly) coupled with 3 - the availability / advice from your nearest respected gun dealer.

 

If, at the end of the day you're stuck for a gundealer consider R MacLeod & Sons in Tain, Scotland (miles away I know) who have a formidable selection of most firearms, optics etc. Everybody is different, I like the 0.243 as that is what I learned to shoot on..I have used other rifles, 22-250, 6.5x55, 25.06 and aside from the 243 the best of the lot was the .222 which is not an option here.

 

I look forward to hearing and seeing what you decided to purchase along with details and piccies of your hunting adventures...

 

Laters & ATB

 

CUBE