HIGH JUMPS

[adeyhawk1970 0]

What number of high jumps would you work up to until you were happy with your hawks fitness?My sons male redtail has been sitting in a breeding chamber for 3 seasons and is the most unfit bird i have ever seen.Ive been doing high jumps with him to build up his fitness but its been bloody hard work,yesterday after 3 weeks was the first time i got to 100

[trappa 518]

Its impossible to say in all honestly. If you arent letting him rest and he is jumping constantly then you are defo getting there! Only you will be able to tell by watching his breathing etc

Good luck!

[adeyhawk1970 0]

Its impossible to say in all honestly. If you arent letting him rest and he is jumping constantly then you are defo getting there! Only you will be able to tell by watching his breathing etc

Good luck!

He is getting no rest and is jumping constantly,at the end of the session his beak is wide open and his wings are drooped down but it coming slowly.By the time i get him fit the season will be half over

[grovsey 74]

i would do rope training as alot quicker to do ,not as boring and works a treat

[adeyhawk1970 0]

Finally got my sons redtail fit by doining 150 jump ups a day but it took me two months to get there.Can you tell me if rope training would have got him there sooner.Now hes fit the mxy has hit hard again(just our luck)

[jasper65 6]

with all respect you'll never reach true fittness by doing high jumps! you'll get them perhaps semi fit but true fittness comes from flying regular plus chaseing quarry ....

 

Jasper

[adeyhawk1970 0]

Jasper i totally agree with you but theres nothing worse than watching an unfit hawk try to catch quarry.As to hunting how fit would this make my hawk(this actually happened).Go to the mews and get my female hh.take her inside weigh her and then go into the garden.I lived opposite a large wood approx 50 yards away with a serious rabbit population.Put hak on fence and walk towards wood .Hawk follows me and flies to a tall tree.Sits there for all of 30 seconds and then drops on a rabbit.How fit bwould this hawk have got doing this every day.I did acually take 3 rabbits that day but none of them were taxing flights

[trappa 518]

High jumps can only do good. I think what jasper is saying is high jumps shouldnt replace actually flying at quarry (i think), but high jumps are excellent at getting the birds fit so dont stop!

Like you say, the actual hunt can be very easy on the bird, sometimes catching rabbits can look very good, but she is only flapping her wings a few times and it isnt doing anything for the fitness.

[jasper65 6]

High jumps can only do good. I think what jasper is saying is high jumps shouldnt replace actually flying at quarry (i think), but high jumps are excellent at getting the birds fit so dont stop!

Like you say, the actual hunt can be very easy on the bird, sometimes catching rabbits can look very good, but she is only flapping her wings a few times and it isnt doing anything for the fitness.

 

High jumps are a good start for a stretch and help with some stamina at the start and bonding to the fist but personally no one will ever convince me you'll get a bird truely fit with this process . If my Gos gave me 150 High jumps it works out on average 150 flicks of its wings? If on the other hand I stand a good 30 - 50yds from a Ferreted Rabbit the Gos would be pumping all the way to make up No1: the Law I allowed the rabbit and No2: the extra speed needed to reel it in and secure its quarry. I'm pretty certain that the birds wings would be working harder/faster useing full strokes compared to my 150 jump ups? chaseing Game also gets them fitter and the Lactic acid pumping through them, we also have to take into account the weather! a bird pumping hard into a strong wind will be working harder than on a calmer day! a bird pumping hard up into a tree also has to be worth one hell of alot of High jumps .....

 

if anyone has seen a spooked or for some other reason Gos bateing around on its bow I'm sure they'll see its pumping its wings probably more than a High Jump, if not moved settled down they'll get themselves to state of exhaustion of laying flat out knackered...

 

Jasper

[trappa 518]

Wasnt there a study done on this? i remember reading somewhere about an experiment and if i remember correctly it was a coopers, the jist of the experiment was that the after a while they realised the bird had caught loads but the wing beats she had done with each chase was fantastically low, a really silly number.If i remember it i will let you know.

Anyway, i stand by what i say, high jumps bring them on leaps and bounds and are great when you havent got a chance to fly _work, weather etc, plus with gosses, i use weights too.

[jasper65 6]

Wasnt there a study done on this? i remember reading somewhere about an experiment and if i remember correctly it was a coopers, the jist of the experiment was that the after a while they realised the bird had caught loads but the wing beats she had done with each chase was fantastically low, a really silly number.If i remember it i will let you know.

Anyway, i stand by what i say, high jumps bring them on leaps and bounds and are great when you havent got a chance to fly _work, weather etc, plus with gosses, i use weights too.

 

I know what you're saying trappa but theres been alot of studies and books written in the past by people who dabble but never really get out and do it, they seem to write these books giving the feeling these birds are like Robots and ALL respond in the same way, surley they know they're all different with different metabolisms and temperaments? some birds bend to certain techniques better than others so I'll agree to disagree mate. perhaps it might well work with the Buteo's or parabuteo's But I wouldn't know too much as I have one flown one Redtail and two Harris's both never doing High Jumps as I had never heard of them, the Redtail was pretty fit but the Harris's I never really put the time into them, if I was flying a Falcon at the Black stuff I would get it stooping to the lure until its was giving me 2 x 25 stoops no problem with a break in the middle then entered.....

 

As for Accipiters!! I'll knock high jumps on the head as I have always got on ok useing other methods as alot of other people have for many years before the High Jump palava, I can't be sure but I don't think Millet did with his, Basically if the technique I use is not busted why mend it .....

 

Jasper

[adeyhawk1970 0]

Jasper i have given you an example of my harris hawks flight in her first season.I lived in kidderminster at the time and all my hunting was done in woodland.I noticed that when she was following on she would do a few flaps and then glide to the next tree.Most of the time i was out for an hour a day hunting but even when we caught prey she never seemed to get worked hard.Im sure flying a goshawk of the fist at game birds or bolted rabbits is a totally different ball game requiring a lot of explosive power.If i had flown her at bolted rabbits im sure she would have been fitter or of the fist at game birds,but i dont think i would have had a high success rate

[jasper65 6]

Jasper i have given you an example of my harris hawks flight in her first season.I lived in kidderminster at the time and all my hunting was done in woodland.I noticed that when she was following on she would do a few flaps and then glide to the next tree.Most of the time i was out for an hour a day hunting but even when we caught prey she never seemed to get worked hard.Im sure flying a goshawk of the fist at game birds or bolted rabbits is a totally different ball game requiring a lot of explosive power.If i had flown her at bolted rabbits im sure she would have been fitter or of the fist at game birds,but i dont think i would have had a high success rate

 

I know what you're saying mate and don't get me wrong I wasn't slateing High Jumps . I'm sure any sort of exurtion must be a benefit to a unfit bird to help build up its Metabolism and muscle to get things moving, anything has to be better than a bird sitting about on a bow or setting its wings flying from tree to tree....

 

with a new taken up bird or one out of the moult flying to the fist either on the creance or loose I normally get someone or a couple of people to come out with me and fly the birds fist to fist, if there is 3 of us you can soon get a bird moving in a triangular fasion between fists increasing distance or perhaps calling with one person on lower ground, birds flown like this will soon start to pump hard between calls expecially if its keen and wants whats on offer on the glove, I also do some pretty long distance calls to the fist as the birds fitness picks up, Tree work comes later as they'll always find themselves in a tree sometime or later.....

 

I have used High Jumps mate on a good few occasions but not so much as a fitness regime but more looked on as short term fist bonding work prior to the creance. It must have some sort of fitness advantages as the birds are visibly knackered at first, but then again they are with a good bateing session at this stage...

 

you only have to look at birds at hack to see they're getting some sort of fitness into them and finding some sort of powers of flight, even wild youngsters from Branching start to chase their mother and each other and not before long chase quarry! use the High Jumps for a starter but I think what I'm trying to say is get them out flying and useing their wings for what they was designed for and get some true fitness and power into them ....

 

Jasper

[turk 79]

the only true true way on getting a bird fit is chasing quarry there are two fibres of muscle in a hawk the red and white fibres the red is basically just the normal muscle but the white fibre is the one you need to build for speed and stamina and the only way that one will build is by chasing quarry.but dont get me wroge if theres a day i cant get out with my birds i do jump ups from the bow perch to the bedroom window then they have to work hard thats just my view on it.

[jasper65 6]

the only true true way on getting a bird fit is chasing quarry there are two fibres of muscle in a hawk the red and white fibres the red is basically just the normal muscle but the white fibre is the one you need to build for speed and stamina and the only way that one will build is by chasing quarry.but dont get me wroge if theres a day i cant get out with my birds i do jump ups from the bow perch to the bedroom window then they have to work hard thats just my view on it.

 

It makes alot of sense to jump a bird and get some activity into them on none flying days mate which can only be good for the bird . Nick Fox wrote alot of stuff about the Red and White muscle fibres in his book <Understanding The Bird Of Prey> but it made things more technical for the average falconer than need be.....

 

Fitness and conditioning is something we all strive for in one way or another, we all get there in the end with plenty of flying without taking the scientific route some write in these latter books compared to the old school routes who just got out and flew them.....

 

Jasper