Tallyho 181 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Can i just ask how the dog got ripped up ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scallywag 78 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 I don't know - he returned to his owner injured and by the time I saw him he'd been stitched up. Do you think it's significant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
labsnlurchers 39 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 I hope the farmer has all his medical records and sheep records up to date! Wheres the proof, photos of injuries, record of antibiotics administered, evidence of the dog worrying the sheep? A bit late to deny it now but in court 'it could have been that dog' or 'it looked like that dog' shouldnt stand up. If the farmer has any sense he will leave it go but he will be on alert probably with his gun so now you have the indication that the dog is not good with livestock be more careful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The one 8,493 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 I knew of a st bernard that grabbed a sheep threw the fence whilst the dog was standing on it's owners drive and it got pts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest w.m.avian Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 IF SHES SAY NOTHING AND IT GOSE TO COURT IF THER IS NO OTHER WITNESSES AND NO DOCUMATED EVEDENCE THEN IT WILL GET THROWN OUT ONLY WAY THEN IS DNA TEST THE SHEEP BUT NAW IT WOULD BE TOO LATE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doglost Co-Ordinator 4 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 This could go two ways, either she will get away with it but with the farmer being that determined she could provide written reports from both vets, trainer & where she got dog from proving she has A taken steps to provide responsible training for underlying issues PRIOR to when she rescued/took it on B registered it with vets C got the proof ie muzzle & training line to show she is taking the farmers allegations seriously & working to stop the dog doing this again It's difficult in that by offering to pay she;s more or less admitted liability, the farmer unless he has photos wont be able to proof otherwise but any form of livestock worrying is serious especially if a dog has caused damaged. I'd suggest a chat wth some one more au- fait with livestock/dog issues to see where she stands legally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scallywag 78 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Thanks everyone. She's emailed Clive Rees. She can easily provide evidence that she was consulting behaviourists and other experts prior to the alleged incident. I also think she could say she offered compensation because she felt frightened and intimidated rather than because she was necessarily accepting liability, especially since the police woke her up late at night to interview her - she can say she was confused and half asleep and scared I think. Anyway, many thanks for all the advice, she's found it helpful and will get it sorted. Given that this dog seems to run away, I suppose the risk is that if she's required to have him pts by the court he might slip his lead and run away never to be seen again - I hear there's a dog that looks just like him in a stock free area far away from here.................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macberran 2 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Your all speaking as if the farmer was some malicious enticing agent ffs. the dog was not under control...FACT.. ripped up going through fences chasing...if it was with my stock the liability would not have made it home..simple. If you have dogs in the countryside you have a legal responsibility to have under control at ALL TIMES. why should the farmer carry the costs of bad training.ownership etc. if you want too keep animals make sure you can control them. otherwise take what comes. I'm sick off the dogs are sacred mentality that exists, this was the mans income and he may have family too support. like I said, dog wouldn't get off my place. buried and gone. if your dogs working it should be stock broken, look out for your responsibilitys or loose them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scallywag 78 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 macberran I agree stock worrying is very serious and so does the owner of this dog. The dog will never be off lead again. She wasn't working the dog, she was walking him in a town park no where near stock after weeks and weeks of working on his recall in what she and everyone else thought was a safe place. Hescarpered, ran a bloody long way and got into mischief (allegedly). If the dog worrying the sheep had been shot in the act of doing it I don't believe shewould have complained and nor would I. However, the farmer has been offered compensation for his losses and received assurances about the dog being kept under control in the future. We live in a relatively small community and most of us have been raised in farming families or had farming friends all our lives, we're not minimising the impact on the farmer but he's being very hard line and she. quite rightly in my opinion, is trying to protect her dog. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macberran 2 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Scallywag I was not putting on you in this situ but the whole thing in principle. my many farming freinds will always be hard-line as that is the way they have too be, renters and owners. the making aliving is a hard one and I can tell from the thread you appreciate this however some who jump on it seem too want too damn the farmer and his stock too. abad dogs a bad dog so how did she come by it ?? the dog you talk about is in the middle of change and should be nurtured more, the farmer may have had long problems and the polis felt they should justify their lack off zeal....simple as.... the naivety off some forum members amazes me. another thing is who cuts the hedges,tops the fields plants the crops,does the drainage and gives permission. so before you f--k off the farmer....think what he has too do before starting work himself. sorry mods and Scally if I stole this thread but many threads make the jacket. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
comanche 3,040 Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 Probably a magistrate 'll simply order compensation and order that the dog be kept under control . If it could be proved that the dog's owner knew the dog had a propensity for this sort of thing but failed to take extra precautions to control it the judge might impose more restrictive conditions . At the end of the day if the dog did the deed it's only fair that the farmer be compensated . Maybe he's being a bit "hard" about the situation because he has experienced this sort of thing before . As for the police "Damned if they do .Damned if they don't" . One minute they are accused of ignoring rural crime the next they are accused of taking things too seriously when they actually do a bit of sleuthing to track down a suspect ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
artic 595 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Your all speaking as if the farmer was some malicious enticing agent ffs. the dog was not under control...FACT.. ripped up going through fences chasing...if it was with my stock the liability would not have made it home..simple. If you have dogs in the countryside you have a legal responsibility to have under control at ALL TIMES. why should the farmer carry the costs of bad training.ownership etc. if you want too keep animals make sure you can control them. otherwise take what comes. I'm sick off the dogs are sacred mentality that exists, this was the mans income and he may have family too support. like I said, dog wouldn't get off my place. buried and gone. if your dogs working it should be stock broken, look out for your responsibilitys or loose them. Spot on! If CRIMINAL activity has taken place, in this case it has, then the Vets will have to disclose all info to the police for dislosure to the CPS if it goes to a court. So quite clearly the vets are just doing their jobs, just like the police. (Investigating crime) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strong Stuff 2,171 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Just out of interest ............ How much is a sheep? Are we talking tens or hundreds of pounds? Just interested. And while we're on the "poor farmers" topic ............ it really fucks me off when they drive their very slow tractors on public roads with no number plate visible at the back and leaving mud and shit all over the roads. "City Boy" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
artic 595 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 the Vets will have to disclose all info to the police for dislosure to the CPS if it goes to a court. Surely there is a world of difference between a vet being asked by the police for evidence, or a vet phoning up and volunteering the evidence that this dog 'might' have been the one responsible. Did the vet inform the owner he/she was going to do? I dont think so somehow, so if not why not? The woman may then have not needed to have a bleedin dawn raid like a drug dealer ffs. SS, i am sure most farmers would have been more than happy with the comp...yes they would be really annoyed but to be honest most of them would not have the time or energy to pursue something so trivial through the courts. The ironic thing is...ask the farmer if the sheep has suffered similar injuries a different way, would they call out the vets to sort it, i very much doubt it. Stick some home made stuff on and leave them too it, then get the knackerman with the bolt gun to finish it off when the home made doesnt work. No way would a farmer pay for vets for a ewe or lamb. Either way the evidence would be needed. It doesnt matter who gave the evidence so long as the Data Protection Act wasn't abused then the evidence will be disclosed to the police, farmers brief etc... If the vet voluntered to disclose this to the police then fair play to him/her. The proof is in the pudding as they say! Was it really her dog that did this? What has the dog owner already said to the police in the contemp interview at the "Dawn Raid" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Gunn 0 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Just out of interest ............ How much is a sheep? Are we talking tens or hundreds of pounds? Just interested. Last time I had dealings £20 for an old yew and £50-60 for a spring lamb ready to slaughter that was 7-8 years ago Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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