UFC 91

[LDR 29]

You should go to parliament mate and argue the ban for us!!!!

 

Nobody disputes the fact that submissions are part of the game, but that particular one can be classed as either an accident, mistake, unfortunate, lack of experience, part of the game....or mirs incredible skills!!!! I personally think it was a combination of the first 5....not the latter!!!!

 

Totally apart from it, do you think mir is any good?????

 

 

So a submission by leglock is an accident....but a submission by armbar,triangle choke or whatever else is not an accident but skillful technique ? is that your argument ?.....i dont really understand what your getting at mate.....what i do know is the submission game takes probably more technical ability than any other and i just fail to see how a win by submission is an accident....but if thats your views then ok...when you started on about tree surgery i pretty much lost the will to live...but no problem,we all have different opinions...however strange they are

 

 

No mate you've got what i'm saying wrong, maybe i'm not explaining it very well!!!!

 

Submissions are all part of it, so are knockouts etc etc......but what i'm saying is mirs leg lock, to me looked like a lucky break, which i would put down to lesnars lack of experience...just my opinion... so whether you look at it as mir has got great submission skills or lesnar made a mistake/accident by.......A- putting his leg in that position, or B- not knowing enough defence to see his way out of it, its debatable!!!!

 

Personally mir doesn't do it for me, i doubt many seasoned fighters in lesnars position would've been caught by it.....again, just my opinion..... you can never say never in this game, but i'd imagine randy would've destroyed lesnar in the same fight as mir, maybe you're a mir fan, he just doesn't excite me, and that victory he had seemed more luck than anything else, which to me would indicate lesnar accidentally put his leg in a position he shouldn't have done!!!

 

anyway back to the tree surgery question.........................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just kidding........................

[gnasher16 30,217]

Ok mate,well i get what your saying now at least....dont agree with it but still.....yes i am a big mir fan,personally i dont become a fan of somebody because they excite me because i know sometimes fighting is just not particularly exciting...it doesnt mean someones not a good fighter just because they dont get you on the edge of your seat.....im a fan of dedication and technical ability......what you seem to forget is lesnar did not put his leg there and mir did not accidentally come across his leg while getting pounded...you are talking of 2 totally contrasting styles...mir WANTS to be on the floor to set up his submissions,its the nature of fighting that he is going to take some shots while setting it up it doesnt mean he is losing,he is simply getting where he needs to be.....tell me,did mir break big tim sylvias arm by accident as well ? of course he didnt it was near perfect technique,which like i say i admire.

Lesnar will still have legs next time they fight,whether he has more experience of how to defend a leglock doesnt matter he may get set up for a choke next time who knows.....its like saying if somebody gets knocked out cold from a punch they will learn from it and never get knocked out again.....its ridiculous,all these different attributes are what make a fight a fight.simple.

Edited November 17, 2008 by gnasher16

[Malt 379]

Sorry guys, watched a re run of the fight last night, and to be honest it done nothing for me. Some big blobby bloke pounded f**k out of some old bloke..

 

I used to enjoy it when it first started, when you had fighters sticking to their chosen disciplines, it made for interesting viewing.

 

If I remember rightly, there used to be a Ju Jitsu fighter by the name of Royce Gracie in it when I used to watch it, who was shit hot. Is he still around?

Edited November 17, 2008 by maltenby

[Guest Chip]

If I remember rightly, there used to be a Ju Jitsu fighter by the name of Royce Gracie in it when I used to watch it, who was shit hot. Is he still around?

he was damn good at it to i watched a bit of him years back before it all became mixed.

he was in a tournement with £50.000 up to the winner some of the fighters were a sumo wrestler,

some supposedly big shot cruiser weight boxer..who came in with boxing gloves on thinking it would be a breeze .a dutch world champ kick boxer not sure if shamrock was in there among others anyway gracie beat the lot.

i remember willing fighters to beat him,it was my first look at what jujitsu was all about and thought it made for boring veiwing,ive come to appreciate it abit more these days.

last i seen of gracie was when matt hughes beat him on the ground a couple of seasons back great fight.

[Guest Chip]

this is it

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wmZmrIFvf4I&...feature=related

and this was the sumo fella who i thought would wipe the floor with gerard :blush:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrxjqsvuJQ

Edited November 17, 2008 by Chip

[Malt 379]

this is it

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wmZmrIFvf4I&...feature=related

That's the fella Chip!

[BULL 96]

yes but back then the contrasting styles and no weight classes made good viewing but time and time again the bjj guys tied up boxers,thai,karate,wrestlers etc for up to 30 mins (boring)not moving just tiring them out to eventually get a subbmission.

so every style got wind of the bjj and have bastardized it into there own style which has born mma as we know it .

i think the best thing they did in ufc was the weight classes ,and the stand up rule after just clinching on the floor is a stale mate.

it makes a fairer and more explosive fight.

and now the mma style has come into its own and evolved into ultimate fighting ,would royce gracie or any other bjj only! guy beat an accomplished ufc champ these days.

i think not.

[LDR 29]

Ok mate,well i get what your saying now at least....dont agree with it but still.....yes i am a big mir fan,personally i dont become a fan of somebody because they excite me because i know sometimes fighting is just not particularly exciting...it doesnt mean someones not a good fighter just because they dont get you on the edge of your seat.....im a fan of dedication and technical ability......what you seem to forget is lesnar did not put his leg there and mir did not accidentally come across his leg while getting pounded...you are talking of 2 totally contrasting styles...mir WANTS to be on the floor to set up his submissions,its the nature of fighting that he is going to take some shots while setting it up it doesnt mean he is losing,he is simply getting where he needs to be.....tell me,did mir break big tim sylvias arm by accident as well ? of course he didnt it was near perfect technique,which like i say i admire.

Lesnar will still have legs next time they fight,whether he has more experience of how to defend a leglock doesnt matter he may get set up for a choke next time who knows.....its like saying if somebody gets knocked out cold from a punch they will learn from it and never get knocked out again.....its ridiculous,all these different attributes are what make a fight a fight.simple.

 

 

Fair point mate.........i guess we'll just be destined to disagree on this one.......... i guess time will tell if mir gets a rematch with lesnar!!! all the best mate!!!!

[Guest joe ox]

tell me,did mir break big tim sylvias arm by accident as well ? of course he didnt it was near perfect technique,which like i say i admire.

 

Actually it was an accident and piss poor technique, if it was near perfect it would of broke at the joint not the forearm and Tim would of had a chance to tapout(submit) before his arm broke, which is what ju jitsu is about. He was not trying to break the arm there he was trying to apply a joint lock! AKA armbar.

 

Bull, Royce Gracie did try to beat then UFC champion Matt Hughes and was schooled!

Edited November 17, 2008 by joe ox

[Simoman 110]

IMO Mir has some of the best groundgame if not THE best in the heavyweight division, the trouble is I don't rate his stand-up and I think his conditioning is awful.

As for the Royce Gracie, he won the first UFC's as nobody had seen such a ground game but fighters have evolved and used a mixture of boxing, Jui Jitsu, judo, wrestling and various other techniques to improve. This was shown a couple of yeasr ago when Royce was beaten by Matt Hughes, at the first UFC's Royce was beating men who were bigger and stronger by technique, however fighters have moved on and Royce was dominated by a smaller superior athlete IMO. Some of the fighters now such as Penn, St Pierre, Parisyan and Silva are exciting to watch and show how the sport has evolved.

[gnasher16 30,217]

Actually it was an accident and piss poor technique, if it was near perfect it would of broke at the joint not the forearm and Tim would of had a chance to tapout(submit) before his arm broke, which is what ju jitsu is about. He was not trying to break the arm there he was trying to apply a joint lock! AKA armbar.

 

Bull, Royce Gracie did try to beat then UFC champion Matt Hughes and was schooled!

 

 

Jesus your fussy....not good enough to break his forearm it has to be the elbow !!....your talking about ju jitsu mate im talking about submission fighting...well actually i was talking about setting up the submission in response to the fella saying it was an accident....as far as im concerned mir did set it up perfectly....any old prick can stand there and break a guys arm with an armbar...setting it up is a whole different thing and if your not happy with mirs technique in that his arm broke and not the elbow then i suggest you tell him i mean he,s only an ex world champion im sure he would take your advice.

[Guest joe ox]

:lazy:

Edited November 18, 2008 by joe ox

[gnasher16 30,217]

Mate we can all sit here and drop subtle hints about our experiences personally i refuse to do it as its muggy and embarrassing...........i say again,the set up for any submission is much harder than the actual act as no 19 stone man is going to give you his arm leg or neck and let you do as you please with it......mir i believe sets them up better than most others.....i think this has gone on long enough now,like i said,maybe you need teach old frank im sure if you have drilled a few lads an ex world champ will be no problem.

[trappa 518]

I reckon if Mir beats nog then we will see a great re-match.

If the ref hadnt jumped in when mir was taking a pounding to the back of the head with them hammerfists, he would have been beat.

 

For me, no-one will match lesnars size and strength so it will need a submission expert to beat him now, as he is definately beatable by submission , we saw that with mir, BUT, lesnar is a different fighter to the one who stepped in the ring with mir a couple of months ago.

 

Still think it stinks he got a title shot after 3 fights, the other heavies must be fuming. Dana is only interested in getting the millions of WWE/WWF fans to UFC. Did anyone else notice the massive number of kids at 91? the crowd was full of them!

Edited November 18, 2008 by trappa