Mills, MOA, Milliradians

[camies 1]

It's officially Christmas because I got given a JSR 6X32 Mini PX Adjustable Illuminated Scope.

Nice bit of kit which zeroed in at 30 metres a treat in under 10 mins.

All OK so far?

The problem is the Mildot.

The scope adjustment is 1/4inch @ 100 yards. i.e. the MOA. OK This I can equate to hence the fast line up.

The parallax adjustment works and all is well with respect to the reticule (although I think it's going to be a little bright at night even on the weakest setting.)

Then I tried the Mildot.

At 30 metres, my 12" steel rule should have been between 3 1/2 and 3 1/4 mils according to the range card enclosed in the box.

No such luck. It was bang on 3 mils.

 

OK not a heck of a lot of difference but enough to ring alarm bells. So, out of interest I viewed my 12" rule at 100 yards.

Bang on 1 mil which according to the chart is 76 metres.

 

Am I doing something wrong or have I got the wrong end of the stick? Any advice would be appreciated.

[Deker 3,478]

The maths is pretty straightforward but glass, printing/etching of reticles is always down to quality and precision.....even expensive scopes don't get it right all the time!!

 

Check it yourself as you have, and work with your figures!!

 

As a matter of interest how did you measure the 30 metres and 100 yards and 76 metres??

 

Edited October 22, 2008 by Deker

[bigdave911 0]

I suppose you could always work with it and just re-write your own range card then learn it by shooting at these distances till your happy with how your scope is preforming.

[cometa300s 20]

i might try and give summert like that init

[ghillies 209]

iz euw on eee's man, yu know wata mean like..innit...(sorry couldnt resist..)

 

 

watched a scientific board releasing their findings on the subject, goes like this...

 

10 monkies tripped for two weeks,(chimps), in the crowd is half a dozen press guys standing 'stationry' and about 30 20 year olds, non could stop 'fidgetting' on the toe's there, it's called involenrty movent, translation..brain damaged.

every 5 or 6 seconds one or the other piped up, ''so? innit'' yu know innit? so does it like harm humans or not''.. yes they replied.............

out came the monkies brains... smooth as a porn stars bits... translation to the crowd, it's like the most severe case of senility going.. as in parisons last stages, you name any brain desise that similar, all smooth brains..

 

sooooooo.....

 

guy in the crowd (still bounding up on his toe's, still twitchin like a head shot bunnies foot...) shouts up... ''yeh buttt-tit-the love drug innit?''

 

the scientist stopped dead in disbeleive! and directly addressed this guy, ''it kills your brain and depletes your spinal fluid!'' then re composes and continues..

 

another guy in the crowd (also on his toe's, twitchin like he just had a wank) shouts ''no way man!, theyre chimps! they got no human DNA..innit yehh!!'' and waited for the suport of the crowd..

 

oh dear.... chimps have more human DNA........... they doooods in the crowd were already showing the early dementia (old age sinility) simptoms and could no longer stand still... innit...

 

soooo......... the show came to an abrupt end when the first guy in the crowd literaly nearly jumped off one foot with a 'twitch' while his brain tried to speek..and his foot worked instead.. owch..

out came the hyped diareah.. well rehersed as he could no longer form his own words..

 

''' INNIT YEH...true innit..it dont hurt humans see...''...........innit.. owch! the guys on satege packed up in a paddy and just gave up.

 

not directed like, no ofence and all that, but had to say it............. he he he he he ......................''INNIT''....................................help!!

 

got to admit though, Alie G's floata sketch with the american top scientists was a screem..yeh the guy did it ...

Edited October 22, 2008 by ghillies

[camies 1]

Thanks for the replies guys although I could not work out what ghilles contribution to the problem was.

 

Yards and metres, I work with both if the tape measure will reach.

76metres=83 yards(ish) but I still convert where possible (and mental maths permitting) to old money inches, feet, and yards whenever I can.

I have always thought that shooting should be in yards and MOA on scopes is normally quoted as inches to 100 yards.

Range cards and some published articles are a different story. Yards, metres (meters) or whatever is the correct spelling cause me a bit of thought though because of the conversions.

Seems like we need a God type person to lay down the law to the foriegners and keep us all imperial.

 

Anyway, for a given range say 30 meters or yards , what would the mils equate to?

i.e. if I have zeroed at 30 units (I am trying to keep politically neutral here) what would a hold over of 1 mil equate to in feet / inches / cms/ or metres at that range?

 

Is there a simple formula? (Try and keep it to a level of someone who could not pass GCE maths please)

 

Whilst I have access to a nice open field, the farmer gets upset if I trample his sugar beet putting out range sticks and zeroing targets so range cards by pratical means could cause me grief.

 

Across to you clever people for an answer.

[ghillies 209]

carnies.... it was late, and cometa's 'init' sparked a memery, there no problems with that, but it amused enough to bring out the drible.

a little of topic sorry...those who know will get it, for those who dont. .. ''init'

 

yards and meters, yes MOA is in inch's, and yes mil dots or mil's are in millimenter metric... makes it a mouthfull when our shooting....

 

acording to the MDRF from chairgun.. true mildot at 10 mag.. (most vari mag scopes change the spacing with the mag,and give a 'true mildot @ 10 times magnification) so two varients..

 

but at 10 mag...

 

30 yards one 'true mil dot spacing' (theres more than one kind of spacing,and every ret had its own, including the advertised true mildot)..

 

30 meter's = 3cm ...................................................................(coverted to inch.. 1.2 inch or 1 1/5 inch)

30 yard's = 1.1 inch (1 1/10'th inch).......................................(converted to cm.. 2.8 cm)

 

i will add here.. you need to know what your spacings are, and the size of the actual dot or line width of your individual ret.

 

true mil dot on 10 mag..

10 meters = wont do it on mdrf.

15 =1.5

20 = 2 cm

25 = 2.5

30 = 3cm

35 = 3.5cm aprox.

40 = 4cm

45 = 4.5 cm aprrox

50 = 4 cm

55 = 5.5 cm

[camies 1]

Thanks Ghilles, it makes sense now.

 

Everyone who knows me knows that I just don't get jokes or funnies, possibly due to a loose screw!

 

The scope in question is 6X mag but I get the drift even though the "standard" is 10X I can follow the reasoning.

 

All I have to do is sneak out to 40 yards and plant my stick.

I'll let you know if theroy and reality actually work.

 

Cheers for now.

[ghillies 209]

easest way to do it (check) is get a few coat hangers or summut, masking tape some paper on each one and use a tape measure.. best is every 5 yards, put um out in a fan shap, but measure in the fan shape, so you can see them all.

 

put a line through the middle, fire a shot at each (or three for a group.)...have a look at where your dots go.

 

if its a fixed mag there should be some literature with your scope or on the net or something, to tell you what the mil value is.

 

 

as for the drop on the actual pellet, it depends on the gun/power/pellet combo... same pellet in a diferent gun drops diferently.

 

apart from that.. to check your ret measure mark one paper(in 1cm or 1 inch gaps..what ever your in to), and walk up and down a tape measure.. work it from your feet, the actual distance is from the scope end...but you'll stand where you stand and your whole life you've tracked distance from where your feet are..or head..or both lol

 

when your rets measured up and with a five yard paper colection you can gues a zero to put on dots on.. on the NV site i have its well hi, i'm thinking to put 1 dot down on the 50 yard mark and see what the zero distance is on the cross hair...

 

draw a chart thing... two lines, one verticle up the left, one horizontal along the middle with equol yardage marks... put all the 5 yard marks on.. theres a tragectry chart, its good enugh to get a gues where you want it.. more or less.

 

np mate...hard skinned and a bit of a joker so no harm done.

Edited October 23, 2008 by ghillies

[camies 1]

Yet again, thanks ghillie.

Didn't have to be too complex though (Luckily enough).

An afternoons worth of plinking (and very tired legs) and I was able to draw up a shot fall card for my Harrier after zeroing at 25 yards (Imperial rules OK)

 

Filled in the shot fall as it happened, then added Mils (ish).

Result, confidence boosted, lamping tonight.

Thanks for your help

[camies 1]

Yet again, thanks ghillie.

Didn't have to be too complex though (Luckily enough).

An afternoons worth of plinking (and very tired legs) and I was able to draw up a shot fall card for my Harrier after zeroing at 25 yards (Imperial rules OK)

 

Filled in the shot fall as it happened, then added Mils (ish).

Result, confidence boosted, lamping tonight.

Thanks for your help

[camies 1]

Sorry

Must remember to click the post button once !!!!!

[ghillies 209]

whats your scope height camies, just measure from the bore center to the scope center ish... what caliber and pellet (and velosity or power if you have it). I'll have a peep on chairgun to see what it comes up with.. oops and scope mag.

Edited October 24, 2008 by ghillies

[camies 1]

whats your scope height camies, just measure from the bore center to the scope center ish... what caliber and pellet (and velosity or power if you have it). I'll have a peep on chairgun to see what it comes up with.. oops and scope mag.

 

Hi Ghillies

Lamping last night was a storming success with kills out to 40ish yards. At the end, when the dawn had come up, we wiled away a couple of hours tin plinking at 20, 40 & yards.

 

The chart worked a treat if a little coarse in mills but the MOA was consistant (tiredness creeping in) giving groups no more than 1 inch low at 40 yards.

Mils gave good hits plus and minus 1 1/2 " so can't complain.

 

Looks like I've got this sussed.

 

Thanks for your input.

Cheers for now

[ghillies 209]

good stuff when it works...