line breeding?

[Kaiser Sozé 282]

Theres no hard and fast rules when it comes to line breeding. You work with the cards you're dealt. In an ideal world rules like "only 5 seasoned stud dogs of hard graft" are all well and good but older terriers may need replacing/kennels filling, a young bitch may need to be bred or a younger stud with a mixture of both performance and blood (breeding) may be more suitable. A proven well tested line is hard to come by and easy to lose! I agree 100% with FM and fair play for being open and honest. Needs must!, and if it's well thought out and seems the best way to go with no money involved, why not? We are all just doing our best. Too many "experts" toe the party line saying I wouldn't breed off such & such until such and such! I know from experience this is not always the case....Nobody knows it all, just my opinion, not directed at anyone. (FD those rules have served you well, over the years, fair play and good advice in an ideal world)

[Glyn..... 5,208]

i've been lucky enough to chat about breeding with some of what i class as greats worker breeders of the type i like , but as Dillydog has said we only have the one life time, i've had my own terriers 42 years the blacks for 34 and all I've learnt is we are only maintaining the old blood lines, i sat in a pub once after a terrier show, no one knew me , and these young lads were talking loud enough for the whole pub to hear but anyway they were justly proud of their little dogs , but they were saying things like he's the best out of the line  best they had ever seen , and how this/that generation had the best  most improved terriers of this line (stevens) this was six years ago i wonder how many still have terriers now ! this got me thinking , have we improved them i'll use the Breay bred terriers as example as mine are bred down from them  via other kennels , so have we , many say because Breay stated his dog must be able to kill a fox , they must be head bangers rough as hell, but what i found from them was the ones who often killed a fox were rarely knocked about and had a skill , badger digging was legal no locator collar terrier had to bay bang bang type animal would of been limited ,

what would the past greats think of what we have now , not forgetting that the young lads who thought they had reinvented the wheel where on the beer ?

As far as line breeding is concerned your out cross is the most important planning you'll ever do, as all the discussions on father daughter , mother son, brother sister  half brother sister prove you can go tight , its the outcross that can often make or break you , if it works great, if it doesn't blame it on the outcross blood lol 

[dillydog 8,462]

I've stuck to a line my whole adult life,  I've done well enough. I've spoke to a few top spaniel trainers and some follow lines, but the bulk chase the dog or family that's winning at the time.

Who's got it right ?

 

I've just used an outcross myself,  he's got a few terriers of the same line in at the back of his 5 generation pedigree.  I've had my eye on the dog since he was a young entry,  he's my type of dog, small and strong.  I left it until he was a well proven dog in the ground and a well proven producer before I used him. 

Would I use a young dog or bitch with just a couple of seasons behind them ?

Yes, of course  (if it was from a line of proven producers) , but I've never had to. 

I'll roll with the punches,  if I loose a dog that should of been bred from I'll go to its brother or source another from the same family.

Like Pickaxe says, we're all just custodians of the working gene, they were here before us and if we're careful they'll be here when we've gone.

Edited March 28, 2018 by dillydog

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Which brings us full circle as to why its so important to gift dogs to lads you can trust with expressed conditions the breeding and ultimate decision lies with the breeder. This not only allows as many dogs to be worked as possible but  gives the breeder the option by seeing them work as to whether or not to fold them back in .No one person can create a line unless your digging 7 days a week nor can any number without trust. The secret is not to breed loads but to  breed with a purpose in mind ie lads wanting them or for personal replacements. Only keep as many as the work load requires .Yards  full of stale terriers does nothing for a line except confuse 

[fat man 4,741]

On 3/28/2018 at 15:26, tank34 said:

Fat man the young bitch you tuck little off say she came away next season an would not go back would you carry on with her pups with you knowing the breading behind your pups . 

I'm not exactly with you on what you wrote I don't know which bitch your talking about. I have only bred the one bitch and as I said she is gone 8 year old and has never let me down.

[tank34 2,341]

5 minutes ago, fat man said:

I'm not exactly with you on what you wrote I don't know which bitch your talking about. I have only bred the one bitch and as I said she is gone 8 year old and has never let me down.

Just reread your post ? fat man say the bitch did fail after her pups would you have kept the pups to see they worked out for you with you knowing your breeding an not having a bitch to breed from at the time 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

20 hours ago, Dead Eyes said:

I've found one that I actually disagree with you on! 

 

The whole 5 seasons thing; have you never lost a dog after 4 seasons, or even 2, and wished you didn't have that policy in place? 

 

And as for using a different stud the next time around; I think you should be breeding workers but also looking to the future. A line couldn't survive on full sisters and brothers back to each other. It certainly could on half brothers and sisters 

You'l have to excuse my memory mate but where do I state I use just  one stud .A decent dog over quite a few bitches is whats written I believe. 

[Dead Eyes 681]

My bad. Maybe i misunderstood. 

 

If its one stud that could cause problems further down the line. If it's MOSTLY one stud that's a different thing 

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Forgive me mate but what do you base that statement on because it' not time served if I'm right .Been doing this for 30 odd years and results are here to see .

[dogmandont 9,788]

3 hours ago, tank34 said:

Just reread your post ? fat man say the bitch did fail after her pups would you have kept the pups to see they worked out for you with you knowing your breeding an not having a bitch to breed from at the time 

Got gifted a pup and another to run on for a lad a good few years ago and in this case the stud jacked. I came home from work to find an empty kennel.

[ALLYMOORE 57]

what do men class as good blood??? 

[ALLYMOORE 57]

aren't they all ? so what is classed as good blood ?

[dillydog 8,462]

FD that's where it all falls down mate, finding decent lads to gift dogs too, I've got enough stories to write a book !

 

[ALLYMOORE 57]

11 minutes ago, baker boy said:

Not really

ok... so what is classed as good blood ?

[stonewall 1,913]

were all looking for the working terrier stud equivalance of galileo if not we should be.just look at galileos record at producing winners,a well bred rough stud dog has to be the start for me. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by stonewall