line breeding?

[Dabhand 887]

good post dilly and glad you wrote the most important word of all in capital letters coz no matter what we do or put in to them without that we are screwed. 

 

LUCK!! 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Dabhand

[marshman 7,757]

.Some men yards breed more consistent workers than others fact and that’s not just down to luck  ! 

if it was just luck then the ones that just haphazardly breed would achieve the same amount of consistent workers as the ones that try to work to a line . 

If it was luck I could go on fb and buy a worker and yes I know you can get lucky and get a worker that way . But you got more chance of getting a worker from a honest terrier man that works and breeds and culls .

I do agree luck is a major factor and play a major part in breeding but I think anyone that serious should be trying to eliminate the luck factor and aiming for consistent numbers of workers through good stockmanship

jmho lads ?

[dillydog 8,463]

You took it to literally marshman,  I've had 35 years on the bank mate and even with the best intensions and all the pedigrees in the world there's still an element of luck. Quote me some big names that consistently produce the goods and I'll tell you some shit they've bred.......myself included. 

I follow a line, a family call it what you want and I consistently produce working terriers,  but I still need that little bit of luck to get the golden goose instead of gifting it to the lad down the road  ?

 

[TOPPER 1,809]

you put the best of the best together and hope for the best , you can edge your bets as much as you like but somewhere along the line there will be some dross you can have the best dog in the world dosn t mean he s a good producer 

[marshman 7,757]

Mate I’m not denying that anyone  can breed shit that’s part and parcel of breeding . We both been around long enough to that knowone can breed 100% consistency. But what I will say that without men at least men trying to eliminate the luck element you wouldn’t of had your line or the amount of workers that you’ve had over the years .

if it was luck the line that you’ve got would’ve died out with the man that bred them years ago . It’s only through good stockmanship elimination of shite and granted luck lol that you still got a line workers . 

If it was luck then how comes someone just breeding and selling on fb hasn’t had the  amount of workers you’ve had ? 

Mate I’ll not front that luck plays a big part part I completely agree with you !  

  but like you just said it’s just a one element of it . 

Edited March 26, 2018 by marshman

[dillydog 8,463]

Exactly,  you can eliminate all the luck factors,  you can go to the legends with their legendary dogs and bitches and still produce shit.  I'm with you 100% in taking the guess work out of breeding and the luck factors but I'll still have my fingers crossed and I'll still be thankful when it falls into place. 

The difference between most good yards and the average man is kennel management,  knowing what you've got and when to work it and how to work it.  You've still got to see the potential in your animal and have the ability to make it blossom. ........but you can only fetch out what's already in them 

Edited March 26, 2018 by dillydog

[marshman 7,757]

7 minutes ago, dillydog said:

Exactly,  you can eliminate all the luck factors,  you can go to the legends with their legendary dogs and bitches and still produce shit.  I'm with you 100% in taking the guess work out of breeding and the luck factors but I'll still have my fingers crossed and I'll still be thankful when it falls into place. 

The difference between most good yards and the average man is kennel management,  knowing what you've got and when to work it and how to work it.  You've still got to see the potential in your animal and have the ability to make it blossom. ........but you can only fetch out what's already in them 

Agreed mate ?

[Apache... 2,588]

Spot on dd.

[Kaiser Sozé 282]

The thing about luck, it runs out! To keep a line going you need to know it inside out, the breeding right back, the better individuals with better traits and the ability to pass on those traits. When things are going well keep as tight as possible, all the while thinking ahead and regularly breeding to the baseline but with subtle differences to give you room to continue, so you don't box yourself in. When those slight variations fail, discard and continue with what is working. And when the time comes to recognize it and not be afraid to outcross. If successful, then fold it back into the original with the aim of keeping drive and vigour (maybe strength and size) but changing the original as little as possible.....Easier said than done! No expert jmho! ATB..

Edited March 26, 2018 by Kaiser Sozé

[Dead Eyes 681]

I disagree Kaiser Soze 

 

if you have a great dog with no history whatsoever then you wouldn't breed him? 

 

The blood helps massively, but it's not the be all and end all 

[Dabhand 887]

15 hours ago, marshman said:

.Some men yards breed more consistent workers than others fact and that’s not just down to luck  ! 

if it was just luck then the ones that just haphazardly breed would achieve the same amount of consistent workers as the ones that try to work to a line . 

If it was luck I could go on fb and buy a worker and yes I know you can get lucky and get a worker that way . But you got more chance of getting a worker from a honest terrier man that works and breeds and culls .

I do agree luck is a major factor and play a major part in breeding but I think anyone that serious should be trying to eliminate the luck factor and aiming for consistent numbers of workers through good stockmanship

jmho lads ?

so say ive just bred my best dog on my best bitch both the sane line real well bred there are 4 pups im to keep one 3 are to be gifted to mates i trust and will do right by them that will fetch them on tidy enter them properly socialise them properly 

 

not all 4 of them are going to make world beaters so i just put that down to luck who walks in the yard and puts their hand on that special pup 

 

yes the other ones could make tidy or average dogs but there could be that one special one we are all trying to get and they dont come often so thats what i call luck 

show me someone who says they will all make good ones i will show you a liar 

just my opinion on it

Edited March 27, 2018 by Dabhand

[marshman 7,757]

19 minutes ago, Dabhand said:

so say ive just bred my best dog on my best bitch both the sane line real well bred there are 4 pups im to keep one 3 are to be gifted to mates i trust and will do right by them that will fetch them on tidy enter them properly socialise them properly 

 

not all 4 of them are going to make world beaters so i just put that down to luck who walks in the yard and puts their hand on that special pup 

 

yes the other ones could make tidy or average dogs but there could be that one special one we are all trying to get and they dont come often so thats what i call luck 

show me someone who says they will all make good ones i will show you a liar 

just my opinion on it

I agree if someone pulls out a world beater out of a litter of 4 , that’s luck ! a 1 in 4 chance but that’s not what I was talking about !

Youvr got a world beater and 3 others that make workers because you’ve bred the best dog and bitch and placed them with good men that’ll do right . Thus you’re doing your best to eliminate the luck factor

like I said there’s a element of luck in everything I agree lol we do, but where breeding is concerned, me personally would rather have a litter from a man that’s actually thought about these thing than to just leave it luck.  If I did I would just go on fb and take a chance every time I needed new blood . Again jmo ?

 

[dillydog 8,463]

You're all right, that's the luck element ?

I never said chance your arm on the Gumtree shite, what I'm trying to say is exactly what Dabs was saying. 

I'll give you an example, my old bitch Treacle had a mistake litter to my Sid, every pup in the litter was at best below average........and that's being kind. The same dog covered the same bitch four years later and every single pup from that litter is working to a high standard. I didn't let the "luck" factor influence me, both times he covered her was out of my hands, but it's the best example I can think of to show the mishmash of genetics.

I'm not into "speed breeding" , I like to give everything I've produced a fair crack of the whip. All the talk of cull hard and follow the best from the best is perfectly true and proper, but when put into practice you'll be a long time dead before you produce a line of dogs. I'm certainly not advocating breeding from lesser animals, but there's to many lads out there with dreams of producing"their own line" that a bit of reality might just give them a kick in the ass.  None of us will produce a perfect line of terriers, it's been tried and failed by everyone that came before us, do your homework and breed for the best every time, just don't forget to get out and enjoy yourself somewhere along the way.

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

The last sentence is the most important Dilly. Good post

[marshman 7,757]

To be fair I think we’re all on the same page with just slightly different ways on looking at it . 

It’s a good point Dd to enjoy your dogs ! I’ve had some depressing dark times and I’m sure without my dogs to take my mind of things I would’ve lost it years ago ?