Whose permission?

[McSparkie 0]

Hopefully this won’t be as complex as I suspect it will be.

Background first:

We moved in with the mother-in-law (MIL) recently (the credit crunch and some delightful (ex)employers).

MIL owns about 35 acres, but doesn’t use it all. She has two fields (say 20% of the total) which she keeps exclusively for her horses.

The rest she lets out to a local farmer (Farmer A, for ‘free’ – actually winter hay for her horses), who does everything to manage/maintain the land for his sheep and cattle.

‘The Hill’ is a hill (really!) that borders on our, Farmer A’s and Farmer B’s land.

 

I recently enquired about permission to take bunnies etc. on the nearby hill which belongs to farmer A.

Farmer A said no, I couldn’t go on the hill, but I could go on MIL’s land and that he has given shooting permission to the farmer next to us (Farmer B ), just over the hill.

Now this confused me, to say nothing of the indignation.

 

I was told that as the farmer is a sitting tenant, it would take about 10 years to get him off the land (something I picked up in conversation). I don’t know why this was investigated and suspect that it may have a bearing on him refusing me permission.

 

However, this is not my main concern. He seems to be under the impression that he has granted me rights to shoot on MIL’s land.

 

She tells me she has never given away or sold the shooting/hunting rights of her land.

 

I have noticed that we have a huge number of crows, jackdaws, magpies and jays and very little other wild birds. I have seen them mob pigeons, doves, thrush, blackbird and suchlike, daily, but mostly on ‘the hill’. We used to have stupid numbers of small birds here, but these have dropped to single figure proportions of what we have seen in recent years.

 

I have also seen the corvids congregate on power lines which border on all our lands in their 20s and 30s (envisage ‘The Birds’).

 

Now to my question(s):

Who has the right to decide shooting rights on MIL’s land?

He has said OK and she is OK, so I can shoot here, but me being a pedantic so-and-so would like some other opinions (ATM I’m ‘redundant’ so legal advise is out of the question)[anyone looking for an IT Infrastructure / helpdesk manager in South Wales (immediate start)???].

Is enough hay to see two ponies through the winter a decent payment for say 25 acres of land (albeit that he administers it) in South Wales?

 

I’m honestly not looking to start WWIII, just a bit more ‘permission’ to secure some free range produce for my family. I'm also just a bit miffed that I have been given permission on what I see as MIL's land by someone else.

 

Should I ‘get stuck in’ at lambing time?

Should I leave the crows and rooks to eat the lambs eyes and tongues?

Should I wait until Farmer A sees the carnage again, or should I go round and give him a wee nudge?

 

Sorry for the novel, I’ve kept it as summarized as possible, but it’s not a black and white issue.

Edited October 19, 2008 by McSparkie

[woz 260]

ok hear goes.........my friend and i have just rented 50 acres of ground to make hey for a new venture next year...we have payed £100 per acre per year......i am mad keen on hunting and thought when we rented the ground i would be able to hunt it..well i was fecking wrong!! we have rented the ground NOT the shooting or vermin control on the ground....if you MIL owns the ground its her shout who hunts it not the tennent....if she wants the farmer off he would have to go in reasonable time,not years aint reasonable!!!!!.............

[Chaz 6]

It all depends on what kind of tenancy agreement was signed at the time and on what was stipulated as being included in the lease, you should never lease land on an informal shake of the hand as it has a tendency to get nasty

Edited October 19, 2008 by Chaz

[McSparkie 0]

Further info:

The agreement was made thousands of years ago on the shake of a hand.

You can put your animals in the fields and I get haty for the horses. Or something like.

You have no idea how much scorn the MIL has come under when questioned about all this. But hey, she is one of those people who trust others not to F her over and if they are 'nice' then they deserve a cuppa also. Tis is now undergoing a somewhat severe review. A certain couple of plasterers and plumbers are avoiding answering their mobile phones (I have more knowledge than both of them put together from an afternoons reading aparently [as I've fixed all their messes]), but that is another whinge.

 

I would like to know how much, roughly (as I appreciate these things can be a bit personal) an acre of land on a south facing south Wales hillside would bring in - and how much a bale of hay woould cost.

Also how much would it cost me (not someone else) to keep the hedges in line, cut and store the grass (mostly to be sold on (to farmer ???)), bla, bla.

 

Bare in mind I'm a townie who has just been dropped head first in 'the muck'.

 

As far as I can see we are about to hit a recession of biblical proportions (and I'm the only one here who sees it coming) and I have me, my wife, our 2 young sprogs, the MIL and the great grannie to look out for.

I truely believe I will have serious difficulty finding employment that will support this extended family to more than a basic level.

 

I am of the opinion that the faster I learn the country way and sus what rights we have, where - the better off we will be.

 

To re-state: I don't want a fight, but I will do so if that's what I need to do to ensure me and mine survive and have what I can scrape for us.

 

I doubt anyone here is old enough to have personall experiences of a true recession, but they wrote a song "they shoot horses don't they" about a serious recession. To be frank I have little faith that today's government have the requirements to keep us out of the poo quick style and keep us there.

 

FYI, I have been out of a job since July and have not 'signed on' nor do I intend to. I pay my taxes and the extras to ensure we have healthcare etc. when we need it (although we shouldn't have to).

[woz 260]

it all depends on type and quality of grass on your ground really...hedge cutting can be done by hand but it will be a slow job....you need to bale the grass that you cut..but there is alot to making hey,and making quality hey is another matter.....i will give you a list of machinery you will need,this is old bottom of the line type stuff..

 

tractor..fordson major £1500

hey bob £300

baler £450

topper £500

trailer £350

................................

hedge cutter £2500

 

 

all in all id say leave well alone....if by some miricle you get it all right and the weather stays with you,you will get £3.50 a bale for decent quality horse hey.........

[McSparkie 0]

it all depends on type and quality of grass on your ground really...hedge cutting can be done by hand but it will be a slow job....you need to bale the grass that you cut..but there is alot to making hey,and making quality hey is another matter.....i will give you a list of machinery you will need,this is old bottom of the line type stuff..

 

tractor..fordson major £1500

hey bob £300

baler £450

topper £500

trailer £350

................................

hedge cutter £2500

 

 

all in all id say leave well alone....if by some miricle you get it all right and the weather stays with you,you will get £3.50 a bale for decent quality horse hey.........

 

Thanks for the info Woz!

 

It does make for depressing reading though, not the price of the machinery (cheaper than I thought), but the price of the bales of hay!

MIL reckons she (or the horses ) gets through two bales a month. She reckons she will need her first one mid-December.

Being unfamiliar with this and MIL showing some reluctance to give me too much info as I think she is starting to feel a little foolish, I reckon that she will only need to suppliment their food until say March.

So, four months of hay equals eight bales at £3.50 a bale. £28

 

TWENTY EIGHT POUNDS a year is what she is effectively charging for over 20 acres of land and the farmer has more rights on it than she does.

 

I'm off for a quiet cry.

 

 

[Edit]

The bales are the big rolled up jobs (that need a folklift/tractor to lift) which puts a skew on things. I've also learned that some rent is paid.

 

[Edit off]

Edited October 20, 2008 by McSparkie