countrymaid 2 Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Or is it illegal?Ive tried in vain to research this, and this is the only definate info i can come up with... http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=1...-name_page.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/jul/18/a...migrationpolicy Both state it is not illegal, and he is not a slaughterman! But he was convicted for burying dogs without a permit. http://www.sighthoundsonline.org.uk/forums...=13018&st=0 So its ok to shoot your dog but not bury it Our Slaughterman is Liscenced with DEFRA and when i asked him a couple of years ago how he gets his liscence he told me a DEFRA vet had to watch him dispatch 2 of a random species so many times a year he said he was dreading the next test that he had coming up as he had his suspisions that he was going to have to do poultry. He got Geese at his next test. He isent allowed to bury any stock it all has to go to approved cremmator. Im sorry that i started this topic but if you had heard how upset this lady was when her whippet was eventually put to sleep you would understand why im asking these questions. Ive just read the link that was posted on here about the man that shot 15,000 greyhounds over a 10/15 year period wouldent it be more kinder to shoot them then they end up passed on and neglected somewhere else. 15,000 greyhounds rotting away i wouldent want to be his neighbours if we shared a natural spring source Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zap 4 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 First of all let me say how sorry I am to hear of your/her distress. I deal EVERY day with the exact same drugs that are used to put people/animals to sleep. The lethal injection used in America is just a cocktail of drugs that I normal use for most operations during the course of a days work. There are two differant types of PTS that are used nowadays. The first is by injection Local Anaesthetic like lignocaine in to a vein. After the toxic dose is exceeded the animal will have a massive heart attack and die. The second being the one they use on people in America is to: Put the person/dog to sleep using an Induction agent called Thiopentone. Thio is actually responsible for killing more servicemen at Pearl Harbour than those that died of the direct attack by the Japs. A long acting muscle relaxant is used normally called Pancuronium, this knocks off the breathing. Then potassium is injected again causing the heart to fail. So when you say that after three vials were used, was it actually three failed attempts or just changing over the syringes. Or, was it three attempts at getting a vein in a skinny poorly dog who you admit to being dehydrated to cannulate so it could be PTS. I have a GREAT vet up this way who is appealing a decision made by the RSPCA under Secton 20 of the Animal Welfare act. His name is Bill Cartmell at Wickham kennels. Try and speak to him and he maybe able to offer you some advice. Wishing you all the best, Rabbiteer Well i was ready to jump in and say what a joke 3 injections and to take it up with some body ,UNTIL i read the above and can totally see how it would be hard to find a vien or what ever considering the way you say the dog was ,secondly its sad for the old dear but it sad for anyone having to say bye to a pet ,i personally have mine done by a vet and my mate let me bury him on his farm nice head stone from my dads work deserves the best gave me alot of great days out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kye 77 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 I dont know how old the study was, or when the footage was filmed, but i have seen video from a Rural Vet, of a few different dogs being put down...it was NOT nice footage, and although i have put down dogs in the past, and will in the future, it is NEVER a nice subject!.. The video showed different dogs being put down with different methods, the injection to the vein (I.V) took the longest for total body shut-down...the animals where hooked up, to monitor heart rate, brain function, respiration etc,....the IV took upto 15 minutes for complete brain activity to cease...breathing being the first to go...so essentaily the dog drowned...im no exspert, but i would say tieing a rock around a dogs neck and throwing it in a lake would not be humane...the dog that was PTS with a firearm, had total body shut-down in five seconds...of course the brain ceased straight away ( i think it was summat like 1/10th of a second) and heart failure was very soon after...of course the heart will continue to work, for a while, but the animal is obviously un-aware...as i say, not a nice video, but one that has changed my mind on morals, and humaness when it comes to such things... Personally, if the Vet f****d it up, as the old lady said, i would take them to court...but imo, the lady was probably upset (rightly so!) and maybe got the story a little confussed?... IMO, the feelings of HUMANS should be the last priorty when it comes to the well beings of animals...people choose the IV method, because its a less distressing, less violent method...its easyier on the person/owner to see little Bingo 'Go to sleep'...my dad had a friend, and his dog had to be PTS...the guy wouldnt even go with the dog...my old chap had to go...imo, the guy was a f*****g coward, and didnt deserve the dog, a dog that had guarded his family and house for 12 years!...thats like leaving a mate to cop a beating imo, and no way to treat an animal!... The thought of taking any of my dogs to a vet, when they HATE the place anyway, to a strange person, and having them on 'death-row'...i couldnt do it to them...i would much rather go for one last walk, with a guy that has LOVED them, CARED for them, and WORKED them,...i would rather go surrounded buy friends and family, than on some cold, tiled strange floor, with some mucky Doc, who reeks of death groping at my veins!...jmo though, each to there own. Kye,.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
woz 260 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 i dont like using vets to put my dogs to sleep...my dogs come to work with me go hunting etc, if im out of the house my dogs are with me,when i take them to the vet the get stressed..i truly beleve that it is far kinder on the dog to end there days at home with a bullet..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rabbiteer Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 All in all, I would have to agree that a bullet does the job far quicker than "the nice injection by the vet"! My limited experiance has shown that vets choose not to use the combo of drugs I mentioned earlier because of cost issues. Anything smaller than a dog or cat will get one shot of Local anaesthetic coursing through there veins and get the joy of having a massive Heart attack whilst fully concious. Your right about the brain activity, it is normally the last organ to stop working but it stops functioning normally after about 15secs without fresh O2. I had an anaesthetist who used the same combo on himself a little while ago, and we/they found him in his car later that afternoon. So when done right, it definatley works! In kosovo we had a guy shot himself in the head with a 9mm. He stayed alive for a good few hours before he finally clocked out. My second in comd in Northern Ireland also shot himself in the head with a 9mm and stayed alive for 28days before dieing from some cerebral infection. The body can show amazing abilities to recover from massive injuries, but give the wrong guy a peanut and they will be dead before the ambulance arrives. Does make you think how fragile we all are. All the best, Rabbiteer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mattydski 560 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 i dont like using vets to put my dogs to sleep...my dogs come to work with me go hunting etc, if im out of the house my dogs are with me,when i take them to the vet the get stressed..i truly beleve that it is far kinder on the dog to end there days at home with a bullet..... Ditto Share your sentiments exactly. When the time comes, it will be me that takes my dogs life. Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest foxyjo. Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 A vet buggered up putting my first GSD to sleep last year. She was with my grandma and had been for years, as when I moved out she didn't want to be alone in the house, so I used to pick the dog up when I went to do the nags. The dog was old and had been suffering too long IMO, but it had become ny grandmother's dog and she was reluctant to let go. Anyway, I made the decision for her and called the vet out to the house. She injected the dog 3 times, and it took about 3/4 hour, which was just devastating. Mia hated vets, and was stressed, she was also a big dog and not averse to taking a chunk if it felt like the right thing to do. So there's me, 6 months pregnant wrestling with the most beloved dog, who s stressed to the max trying to remove limbs from the vet, who then starts dithering, whilst I'm trying not to bawl my eyes out for 3/4 QUARTERS OF AN HOUR!! Complete cock up. Meanwhile, my Grandmother can't understand why we're taking so long... It was awful. I lied to my Grandma, told her we were chatting about horses for ages and then making a fuss of Mia until she relaxed. Before then, I have had my dogs PTS by the vet at home, since then I would have chosen which vet they had very carefully, having just read that study about how long it takes the brain to stop working, I feel ill.... never again. I've had the 2 horses that needed to go, shot by the local kennels, as they are flight animals and I don't like to think of them being frightened losing the ability to run as their legs give out. It IS a violent death, and it's not pleasant for the owner, but it's INSTANT. I will now have a friend or kennelman shoot my dogs when they need to go - every time. And whoever it was who had to take their mates dog into the vet for them...I'm right with you. If the dog/horse has served you well for years, the very least you can do is stay with him til the end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 6,174 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well all I can say is that the vets mentioned in this thread who failed to PTS dogs quickly must be really not up to the job. I have, over many years, had various dogs PTS by my vet, and EVERY time the dog has slipped quickly into unconciousness followed by death in under 2 minutes with no stress or struggle at all. This included ill and old dogs with poor vein quality as well as young healthy dogs who had suffered horrendous accidents. I reckon I must be very lucky indeed to have such a good and competant vet. Whenever possible, circumstances permitting I have asked the vet to come to my home to PTS a dog: less stress for the animal that way. I'm not saying that a bullet isn't just as quick, and is far preferable to suffering pain and distress, though obviously a messy and violent means, but a GOOD vet is more than capable of doing the job quickly and efficiently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keeps 403 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 This happened to me a few years ago when I had to have my beloved 17 year old russell pts. She was very ill at the time, she had pyometra, and had had an operation about 3 weeks before to remove some teeth because of an abcess. The vet wanted to operate on her again but I refused and said I wasnt putting her through another op when she was so very very ill and old - she was blind & deaf and I thought the kindest thing to do was to have her pts - so not only did I have to make the difficult decision to do it, but I had to argue with the vet who tried to persuade me otherwise It took three injections and some considerable time for her to die, and ended up with the vet injecting directly into her heart and abdomen. Half way through I just wanted them to stop, but realised there was no going back. It was the most distressing experience and I would not wish it on anyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well all I can say is that the vets mentioned in this thread who failed to PTS dogs quickly must be really not up to the job. I have, over many years, had various dogs PTS by my vet, and EVERY time the dog has slipped quickly into unconciousness followed by death in under 2 minutes with no stress or struggle at all. This included ill and old dogs with poor vein quality as well as young healthy dogs who had suffered horrendous accidents.I reckon I must be very lucky indeed to have such a good and competant vet. Whenever possible, circumstances permitting I have asked the vet to come to my home to PTS a dog: less stress for the animal that way. I'm not saying that a bullet isn't just as quick, and is far preferable to suffering pain and distress, though obviously a messy and violent means, but a GOOD vet is more than capable of doing the job quickly and efficiently. Same here. I took my mums old Welsh Springer to be PTS a few years back. He'd had about 2 strokes, so we decided that enough was enough as after the second one, he lost control of his bladder & bowls etc. We took him over to the vets, and he was gone within 2 minutes, no fuss or hassle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest gaz100604 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 my first ferret grew a tumour in its intestine and was porley so we took her to the vets and he said "we inject ferrets into the heart to kill them". so she was put on gas and the injection went in. He felt her pulse while i was holding its paw and he said might need another one i was a bit like "wtf mate!" and after the second she drifted off and she went limp. it was pretty sad really and i cryed about her in the night looking at the rock id put on her grave why didnt you knock it over the head with a shovel i know lots of lads who clonk the ferrets over the head out of season and just get a few more when the season starts. i never personally looked as the ferret as a pet alot of you guys do on here i never got it myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest foxyjo. Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 my first ferret grew a tumour in its intestine and was porley so we took her to the vets and he said "we inject ferrets into the heart to kill them". so she was put on gas and the injection went in. He felt her pulse while i was holding its paw and he said might need another one i was a bit like "wtf mate!" and after the second she drifted off and she went limp. it was pretty sad really and i cryed about her in the night looking at the rock id put on her grave why didnt you knock it over the head with a shovel i know lots of lads who clonk the ferrets over the head out of season and just get a few more when the season starts. i never personally looked as the ferret as a pet alot of you guys do on here i never got it myself. It's up to Will isn't it????? I'm not sure I'd have the heart to knock any of my animals (including ferrets) over the head with a shovel, unless it was an absolute emergency Will obviously cared for the ferret a great deal, you could have just stated what you do rather than direct it at Will. He works his ferrets so there not just "pets", but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about them the same. I think it's rude to say that about something that upset him anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lurchergrrl 1,441 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 my first ferret grew a tumour in its intestine and was porley so we took her to the vets and he said "we inject ferrets into the heart to kill them". so she was put on gas and the injection went in. He felt her pulse while i was holding its paw and he said might need another one i was a bit like "wtf mate!" and after the second she drifted off and she went limp. it was pretty sad really and i cryed about her in the night looking at the rock id put on her grave why didnt you knock it over the head with a shovel i know lots of lads who clonk the ferrets over the head out of season and just get a few more when the season starts. i never personally looked as the ferret as a pet alot of you guys do on here i never got it myself. Oh Gaz .... That can't be a nice way to go for any animal. They work for you guys, and deserve a bit more respect than that. It might be quick and painless most of the time but the risk of having to "clonk" it several times just don't seem worth taking. I worked for several vets in Canada over the years and never ever have I seen a cock up during euthanasia. The only time we struggled was when the animals' veins were collapsed and it was a bit of an effort to get the canula in. And once I did have to inject into the heart. We used a barbituate injection and every animal I've seen pts has gone within seconds. I find it very disturbing that some of you have had the misfortune to witness some distressing bungling by your vets. Personally I'd prefer my animals PTS at home where they're not stressed out, when it's possible. And any vet worth their salt should be able to perform the proceedure without a load of palaver or mulitple injections. If my vet had to inject more than once and my animal was suffering I feel certain that vet would end up having me charged with GBH. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest gaz100604 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 my first ferret grew a tumour in its intestine and was porley so we took her to the vets and he said "we inject ferrets into the heart to kill them". so she was put on gas and the injection went in. He felt her pulse while i was holding its paw and he said might need another one i was a bit like "wtf mate!" and after the second she drifted off and she went limp. it was pretty sad really and i cryed about her in the night looking at the rock id put on her grave why didnt you knock it over the head with a shovel i know lots of lads who clonk the ferrets over the head out of season and just get a few more when the season starts. i never personally looked as the ferret as a pet alot of you guys do on here i never got it myself. sorry will not intended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kye 77 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I done a boxing tournament not long ago...two minute rounds,...TWO MINUTES is a LONG fecking time if you ask me! Jay.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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