FREEZE MARKING DOGS

[Guest little lurcher]

i think if many of us got together at an event and reduced the cost further people would also be enticed, put me down certainly , anything to help get my dogs back is worth it to me

[waz77 15]

Yeah i'd defo be up for it,ive got mine tattoo'd already but will do as much as poss to deter the thieving feckers

[Mars 42]

A great idea Skycat.... but who would actually police it ????

I mean when was the last time your dog was scanned for a microchip when you took it to a vet, and the vet said ahhhh yes Skycat the micochip information matches the details we have on file for you....

and if your dog is stolen and some chav now owns it hundreds of miles away who`s gonna know that thats not his brand,

then of course whats to stop the theiveing scum scaring the dog through the brand to disguise the brand,

then their ya show pedigree dogs they wont want their dogs branded..

great idea but a limited market i.m.o.

 

Yis Mars...

[skycat 6,173]

intressting read this freezebranding http://www.lhbrandingirons.com/Freeze/Instructions.html i was under the impression that the hair follicle was killed but this seems not to be the case

 

You only need to kill the hair follicles if it is a white coated animal: this way the fur never grows back and the freeze brand is seen as a mark where there is no fur. (It is called a freeze mark on darker coated animals where the hair follicles are not killed and the fur grows back white: it is called a freeze brand where the follicles are killed with a slightly longer application of the iron and will then show up as a skin coloured bald mark on a white animal)

 

 

On another note: I spoke to my vet about this today as well: she didn't know if it was legal to freeze brand dog either, so she phoned the Royal College of Vet. Surgeons, who said that it IS NOT legal.

 

Now, as there is no legislation either way on freeze marking dogs, I don't see why it is not possible. http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:y2mFuGY...;cd=1&gl=uk

 

This has also been said about freeze marking:http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/staff/hbu...RennieBSpt3.pdf

 

Now, in the information about 'mutilation of dogs', (and I can't find the website at the moment!) removal of dew claws is permissible. This obviously involves cutting into flesh, as does tattooing and microchipping. Freeze marking does not break the skin, so one would think that there would be a case for allowing freeze marking as a non invasive means of identification.

 

My next step is to contact someone in the legal profession: Clive Rees would seem the obvious choice, and try to take this further in establishing whether or not one could get some sort of exemption from the 'mutilation' laws, or even if it could be bypassed altogether.

 

Watch this space: I'm not going to give up easily on this one. If anyone else can find more information, or has a friend or family who is in law it would be great if they could look into it as well. I don't have any funds to spend money at this stage, but I'm going to keep digging deeper into the labyrinth of this country's laws.

 

Thanks to all those who have commented so far and to those who support the idea.

[skycat 6,173]

Yes i would consider!!! Had the Horses done with Nps there at all. Linked to the data base

Grey/ white always showed the dark skin if kept Clipped out

One question Sky Cat

would You think the Lurcher/ Dog/ Hound would need a local anaesthetic, seeing as their Skin is Much Finer?

One of My Lurchers Yelled Like a Banshee when she had her Ear Tattooed

 

The woman from Northern Brand says, like SJM said, that the procedure is uncomfortable rather than down right painful. Obviously different animals have different sensitivity to pain, just like humans. Have a look at this link: this guy uses dry ice, which apparently doesn't freeze the iron to quite the same extent as liquid nitrogen, which most freeze3 mark companies use. But he explains it so that everyone can understand step by step.

 

Incidently, Northern Brand get their irons made in the USA: from bronze, which is one of the best conductors of cold. Other metals can be used but are less effecient at conducting the cold, and therefore need a longer application to the skin.

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=152502

[earth&hounds 94]

is it illegal to freeze brand dog thieve's??? just a thought

yours are freeze branded well scared to bits bout time you retierd them old dogs now mate

[elvisaintdead61 0]

Sounds a grand idea but years ago i had my horses all done with a firm called farmkey i think thats the name anyway.

One of mine was stolen and passed around until it went through reading sales and someone that i knew recognised the pony,not the brand.

What i am saying is all the branding companies kept a database but what use is it when its never policed,the only thing its good for is to prove that you once owned the animal when it turns up by chance.Thieves are not put off by any labels and databases,they will still steal your animals,anyone found with a marked dog will say they just found it or brought it as there is no law preventing the sale of a marked animal

LOCK YOUR DOGS UP SAFELY AND DONT GET ON INTERNET FORUMS SHOWING HOW GOOD THEY ARE.

[skycat 6,173]

A great idea Skycat.... but who would actually police it ????

I mean when was the last time your dog was scanned for a microchip when you took it to a vet, and the vet said ahhhh yes Skycat the micochip information matches the details we have on file for you....

and if your dog is stolen and some chav now owns it hundreds of miles away who`s gonna know that thats not his brand,

then of course whats to stop the theiveing scum scaring the dog through the brand to disguise the brand,

then their ya show pedigree dogs they wont want their dogs branded..

great idea but a limited market i.m.o.

 

Yis Mars...

 

 

I agree with everthing you said, but when you consider the numbers of lurchers and terriers that are stolen every year in this country, then even if it is only a limited market (working dogs) then putting would be thieves off is, to my way of thinking, a good start. The woman at Northern Brand also takes in a limited number of stray dogs, and as she lives near the M6 she said that the numbers of working type terriers, particularly the black Pats and Fells, she sees/hears of/picks up are, along with lurchers, out of all proportion to other types of dogs that have been lost/stolen and dumped or escaped from thieves.

 

It would not be that expensive to set up, the biggest cost being the actual irons themselves. Liquid nitrogen is very cheap.

Northern Brand sounded very committed to helping eradicate animal theft and she said that she would be very interested in adding dogs to her data base. All the horses she freeze marks are marked firstly with her prefix (a star), then the owner's letters or numbers or whatever. This way anyone picking up a dog with that star prefix before the identifying mark can go on to the internet and google freeze marking where you will find her website first and foremost.

 

If we can legitimately freeze mark dogs it would make sense to use an existing data base: flood the rescue shelters/RSPCA/police/vets etc with the information that they need to know about the scheme.

 

Its a bit like when the microchipping first took off: there were, and still are, quite a few microchip companies, and to begin with people thought that it would just be one big mess with no one knowing whose chip they had just scanned on a stray dog. 15 years down the line and all the chipping companies are centrally linked so no matter whose chip your dog has, the owners details etc can be accessed by anyone trying to find the dog's owner.

 

Edited to add: even though it is a limited market doesn't mean we shouldn't try and do it: and if we could do it and it proved useful in fighting dog theft then maybe even the pedigree people would come on board. Any new idea has to fight through prejudice and blinkered attitudes to begin with: all it needs is a determined bunch of people to push and push and push!

Edited October 9, 2008 by skycat

[Guest SJM]

Just think about it this way, if every single person who owned a dog had it chipped and tattooed then the dogs homes would have a much easier life because people would be accountable for their lost/straying pets! As soon as the dogs come in, genuine worried owners could be contacted and go straight to collect their pets, those who dont care could go to hell and the dogs be rehomed within their compulsory 7 day stay, or even billed for the kennel fees and that might make them think about letting their dog roam the streets in the first place I dont think many things should be compulsory, I am all for freedom of choice, but just like every car has to have a number plate and every person has a name and national insurance no (well most people lol) then why not compulsory chipping for dogs, it might just ease some of the problems this country is having with stray dogs/dog theft and the "throwaway" society

[Kay 3,709]

Although my dogs tattooed it isnt any proof of ownership , she isnt microchipped so branding for me would be perfect , i think whats already been mentioned about cutting of ears etc only shows the lengths some people will go to .

 

I would be happy for the branding to be visable on the most suitable part of her body, i dont think animals are scanned for a chip half the time when there picked up , so something that is visable to the eye may be enough to jolly people along to check the branding checked out

[kiwi 4]

we have been freeze branding in nz for over twenty years, does help with pigdog id and lost dogs can at least be traced to a certain pighunting club as most have there own brand, mine used to carry a pinetree symbol and my membership number.

dogs have to be knocked out to have it done and we usally have a day set aside and to keep the cost down.

microchips and tattoo's are still good.

[labsnlurchers 39]

I have 7 horses and they are all freeze marked and i have 10 dogs and would definately consider having them freezemarked depending on the price!

I agree that it wont stop someone taking the animal if they really want it but it DOES act as a deterrant and makes it more difficult for the thieves to 'get rid'. I know if there were two dogs one freeze marked and one not most thieves would opt for the unmarked one.

[Scallywag 78]

Ears can be cut off if tattooed: this has been known to happen: and not many people would be willing to go the hassle of tattooing the inner thigh, which either requires a local anaesthetic (very painful) or heavy sedation. The more modern chips are coated in a substance which promotes bonding of tissue to the chip thereby preventing migration to other parts of the body. (This was previously a concern of mine, but I have been told that with this new bonding coating is working well in 99% of dogs chipped.)

 

Keep your views coming folks please.

 

Didn't know that about modern chips, that's an improvement then. I agree tattoos can be removed by cutting off the ears, I've seen the photos of dogs that has happened to (racing greys though rather than dogs with the kind of tattoos we're talking about). I'm thinking anyone willing to do that would be willing to deface a freezemark though?

Just adding to thoughts to the discussion, since I seem to be one of the few people who doesn't like the idea

[skycat 6,173]

Apparently you can deface a freeze mark just as you could tattoo over an old tattoo: I agree, nothing is 100%, but anything that would put off a potential thief has got to be worth a go.

 

I'm going to be looking into the issue: Kiwi has told me that dogs even have to be knocked out in NZ to be tattooed, which is not the case here in the UK. So maybe you could freeze mark without anaesthesia: another unwanted risk IMO.

[skycat 6,173]

Just been speaking to Clive Rees who is going to look into the legalities of the whole freeze marking thing further.

Edited October 10, 2008 by skycat