Cocker training

[blahblahblah 0]

nice one

[Guest ESS]

GREAT reply and good advice, easier said , than done, when i first replied to this post i could quite easily suggested a shock collar ?

but just like mobile phones ! WHAT did we do before we got them ?

but i think most owners dont realise that no matter how good your dog retrieves swims or works if he or she runs in out of control,

they wont be an asset or welcome on some shoots or company.

 

that is why i said he had to be stopped, having trained dogs of many breeds but mainly spaniels and achieved good results through

the years, oh! dont worry i know the old beat the sh*t out of them method but i could hardly have suggested that !

training any dog takes time and patience,

ithink dogs need a psychiatrist , because of the things we ask of them.

when i take on a new dog as i have done, i recon to give up a whole shooting season and concentrate on the dog,

what i"m left with is a fully trained dog.

there is nothing finer than watching any dog be it lurcher, lab pointer etc, under complete control.

 

and this young man puts in the time and effort he will get there.

 

SO U USE AN ECOLLAR?

[matt d 1]

hi mate try a long line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest ESS]

Ive trained a few ess cockers in my time never ever needed a long line nor an ecollar..and trained a few labs find yourself a copy of a Joe Irvings book or Earlandsons or buy Simon Tyrerscocker trg video do not use a line or a ecollar jmo

Edited October 25, 2008 by ESS

[eshielsgundogs 0]

Ive trained a few ess cockers in my time never ever needed a long line nor an ecollar..and trained a few labs find yourself a copy of a Joe Irvings book or Earlandsons or buy Simon Tyrerscocker trg video do not use a line or a ecollar jmo

 

 

i agree

[Back Stabbath 1]

You've been very lucky then ESS and got soft/easy dogs (not dominant), which most Cockers, Spingers etc. are.

 

If you can get a well trained dog without a long line+prong/flat collar, or an e-collar then brilliant, but theres nothing wrong with using them if they're needed. I would try the longline before the collar. Mainly because of the price, and because as I said, most Cockers would be easy dogs and would probably do grand after some longline training.

 

ANYONE thinking of using an e-collar (I've said it before) MUST buy the DVD of Ed Frawley's on 'training with an e-collar', or at least read all the articles on the subject of training, and e-collars on leerburg.com. Its the best dog website I've ever seen.

Most hunters understanding of the use of e-collars is...outdated, to say the least.

Ed Frawley shows you the best way to use it so that is completly fair on the dog (eg. not stimulating him before he's refused a command, and only using the 'nick' button). Proper use for training will strengthen the bond between dog and owner and make a very happy content, perfectly trained dog, while really incorrect use will give a nervous dog, or worse, a ruined dog. (worst case scenario though, its not rocket science to use them)

 

Lots of idiots have bought collars for dogs who don't necessarily need them, used them on high settings when they're pissed off with the dog, ended up with a bag of nerves, and blamed the collar.

 

 

But anyway.....

 

I don't know any of the names mentioned there, but if other peoples have found their books good then go for it. Just be so careful of bad advice! A lot of hunting/gun dog training advice is sound in my opinion, a lot better than some of the 'pet' training advice...

Edited October 25, 2008 by Back Stabbath

[Guest ESS]

You've been very lucky then ESS and got soft/easy dogs (not dominant), which most Cockers, Spingers etc. are.

 

If you can get a well trained dog without a long line+prong/flat collar, or an e-collar then brilliant, but theres nothing wrong with using them if they're needed. I would try the longline before the collar. Mainly because of the price, and because as I said, most Cockers would be easy dogs and would probably do grand after some longline training.

 

ANYONE thinking of using an e-collar (I've said it before) MUST buy the DVD of Ed Frawley's on 'training with an e-collar', or at least read all the articles on the subject of training, and e-collars on leerburg.com. Its the best dog website I've ever seen.

Most hunters understanding of the use of e-collars is...outdated, to say the least.

Ed Frawley shows you the best way to use it so that is completly fair on the dog (eg. not stimulating him before he's refused a command, and only using the 'nick' button). Proper use for training will strengthen the bond between dog and owner and make a very happy content, perfectly trained dog, while really incorrect use will give a nervous dog, or worse, a ruined dog. (worst case scenario though, its not rocket science to use them)

 

Lots of idiots have bought collars for dogs who don't necessarily need them, used them on high settings when they're pissed off with the dog, ended up with a bag of nerves, and blamed the collar.

 

 

But anyway.....

 

I don't know any of the names mentioned there, but if other peoples have found their books good then go for it. Just be so careful of bad advice! A lot of hunting/gun dog training advice is sound in my opinion, a lot better than some of the 'pet' training advice...

 

The names mentioned may I suggest you google them?

 

Sorry mate but your wrong..

 

As for being very lucky Ive had a few headbangers in my kennels and never had to resort to using an ecollar The problem with an ecollar is that a dog has got to be assessed Mr Frawleys video wont do that will it?And as you said lots of idiots have bought them thinking its a magic box of tricks and ruined there dogs thats why I would reccomend reading some books and then speak to a someone who knows what there doing .But trg a dog aint rocket science the trick is reading your dog..

 

You see its easy to confuse hard hunting into dominance even the most timid of Spaniel will take the piss if you dont correct it.Most Spaniels now are soft in temperment but not soft going in hunting thats where the confusion lays .Years ago a Spaniel needed to be broken those days gladly are gone as they have got softer .

 

Here is a hard going spaniel Missy

 

HEADBANGER SPANIEL

[hily 379]

did this with an ess get someone to bolt rabbits with ferret have dog close to your side not sitting tie a long lead to his coller hold lead and when the dog goes after the bolting rabbit let him run for a few meters blow whistle and jerk him to a stop you must do this on a reguler basis untill the dog gets the message about the stop whistle before you try this get the dog used to the long lead arround his neck for approx a couple of weeks put it on take it off at different times this is to try and stop him from associating the lead with the stop command but to take notice of the whistle.worked for me but every dogs different hope this helps or it might give you an idea of your own.

[Back Stabbath 1]

You've been very lucky then ESS and got soft/easy dogs (not dominant), which most Cockers, Spingers etc. are.

 

If you can get a well trained dog without a long line+prong/flat collar, or an e-collar then brilliant, but theres nothing wrong with using them if they're needed. I would try the longline before the collar. Mainly because of the price, and because as I said, most Cockers would be easy dogs and would probably do grand after some longline training.

 

ANYONE thinking of using an e-collar (I've said it before) MUST buy the DVD of Ed Frawley's on 'training with an e-collar', or at least read all the articles on the subject of training, and e-collars on leerburg.com. Its the best dog website I've ever seen.

Most hunters understanding of the use of e-collars is...outdated, to say the least.

Ed Frawley shows you the best way to use it so that is completly fair on the dog (eg. not stimulating him before he's refused a command, and only using the 'nick' button). Proper use for training will strengthen the bond between dog and owner and make a very happy content, perfectly trained dog, while really incorrect use will give a nervous dog, or worse, a ruined dog. (worst case scenario though, its not rocket science to use them)

 

Lots of idiots have bought collars for dogs who don't necessarily need them, used them on high settings when they're pissed off with the dog, ended up with a bag of nerves, and blamed the collar.

 

 

But anyway.....

 

I don't know any of the names mentioned there, but if other peoples have found their books good then go for it. Just be so careful of bad advice! A lot of hunting/gun dog training advice is sound in my opinion, a lot better than some of the 'pet' training advice...

 

The names mentioned may I suggest you google them?

 

Sorry mate but your wrong..

 

As for being very lucky Ive had a few headbangers in my kennels and never had to resort to using an ecollar The problem with an ecollar is that a dog has got to be assessed Mr Frawleys video wont do that will it?And as you said lots of idiots have bought them thinking its a magic box of tricks and ruined there dogs thats why I would reccomend reading some books and then speak to a someone who knows what there doing .But trg a dog aint rocket science the trick is reading your dog..

 

You see its easy to confuse hard hunting into dominance even the most timid of Spaniel will take the piss if you dont correct it.Most Spaniels now are soft in temperment but not soft going in hunting thats where the confusion lays .Years ago a Spaniel needed to be broken those days gladly are gone as they have got softer .

 

Here is a hard going spaniel Missy

 

HEADBANGER SPANIEL

 

I did google the names.

 

With the help of the DVD they will be able to assess their dog, so yes, the DVD does do that for you in an indirect way.

 

 

I'm sure you have had some hard springers, but you have been lucky that you've never needed to give a physical correction off lead. A hard springer compared to a hard Weimaraner or Doberman is an easy dog.

 

 

"You see its easy to confuse hard hunting into dominance"

 

I agree, for inexperienced people.

It's actually the dogs drive level. A soft dog will be in high drive when its hunting, as will a hard dog. The owner should know what kind of dog they have from its general behaviour. The corrections need to be modified according to the dogs drive and temperment. For example, in your kitchen a strong word may be a suitable correction for a dog, but out hunting (or even just on a run in a field) if the dog is in high drive, he's gonna need a high correction.

 

I agree with you, its a good idea to speak to an experienced person, but then, again you have to be careful of chancer trainers. You need to know your theory beforehand basically. Then get someone to help you on the practical.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Back Stabbath

[Guest ESS]

"'m assuming that people will be able to assess their own dog. "

 

 

Thats the problem in a nutshell...the majority cant..

 

They confuse drive and cheekiness with dominance

 

regards Steve

[Back Stabbath 1]

True mate.

 

I've edited and improved the post.

[longrange 0]

just my opinion, but with all dew respect, i think you both, know your stuff,! but obviously agree to differ?

everybobdy wants a good, old word , biddable dog ! in the end ?

[Guest ESS]

just my opinion, but with all dew respect, i think you both, know your stuff,! but obviously agree to differ?

everybobdy wants a good, old word , biddable dog ! in the end ?

 

 

I agree with a lot of Black Sabbath said there are many different roads which arrive at the same destination.Yes and I think she knows her stuff just a difference in opinions

 

Regards Steve

[Back Stabbath 1]

I'm for any way you can get a well trained dog.

[Red Grouse 0]

This is a good thread - very relevant to problems I'm having with my own cocker.

 

At close range (up to about 20-30ft, hunting distance) mine is pretty good and almost 100% on my commands/whistles. If he hesitates or ignores for a second then a quick "GRRRAAAARRRRR" brings his attention straight back to me, which is fine. But if I send him out for a retrieve 50m away from me, and something flushes beside him, then he's off like a shot and there's not a thing I can do about it. I have a hunch that a shock collar would fix it, but I regard it as a last resort - is there anything else I can try before that?