Is me or the hardware?

[Finkley 1]

Hello Wise Ones,

 

I own a CZ 452 22lr. Last night I missed a 60 yard bunny while on a bi-pod with virtually zero wind. It was annoying but also a bit surprising as I didn't feel myself snatch the shot. All the others I aimed at fell clean.

 

Having stewed on it all night, I got up early doors this morning and rattled a few rounds into some paper for the first time in ages. Again there was virtually no wind.

 

As you can see, four out of the five shots on two of the groups seem to relate to where I was aiming, but there always seems to be the odd stray one. It felt like all 15 shots were the same, but when I walked up I could see the loose ones. The third group was shot after I adjusted to a 50 yard zero, first two groups were from my 60 yard zero.

 

I use Winchester subs as they cost £54 per 1000 compared to Eley which are £. I use the rifle for pest control, although I quite enjoyed punching holes this morning. Shame there's nearly always a hooli blowing down here on the coast.

 

My question is, looking at the groups, would you say the stray shots are pilot error, or ammo? If I'm honest I won't be changing from Winnies because of the price difference, but if it's me then it's something I can work on. If it is me, what is the likely cause?

 

My worry is that if the odd one is that far out at 50 yards, at 100yds it might miss Kent. Is it possible that I'm also expecting too much from a rimfire? I'm not very experienced with them.

 

Cheers in advance for any advice.

 

Steve

 

[richie 1]

i have the exact same rifle in .22lr...

 

i tested winchester subs & found them shite, 1 inch grouping at 25 yards, need i say more....

 

now i wont use any other ammo other than eley subs, you get what you pay for i believe..

 

saying that though, what works well for me, might be the total opposite for you, but the high majority dont complain about eley.

 

 

all these test were done using a bipod, bench resting in an indoor range..

 

5 shots using eley subs at 25 yards...

 

 

 

a positive scored with the eley subs "100"

 

a 92 scored with winchester subs

 

 

if you were to put all the shots together on each target, you can get an idea of grouping.

[Malt 379]

I'm no expert on rimfires, or any other FAC rifles for that matter, but how clean is your barrel?

[Finkley 1]

Blimey, that's quite a difference. Makes me wonder how ethical it is to use Winchesters when I now know there's a very good chance 20% may not hit the intended mark.

 

Have you noticed any bad points to the Eleys? Cleanliness or noise for example?

 

What to do with 750 Winnies? Kill some more paper methinks.

 

Cheers

[Finkley 1]

I'm no expert on rimfires, or any other FAC rifles for that matter, but how clean is your barrel?

 

Hi there,

 

I carefully drag a boresnake through it every 500 rounds or so. To be honest i think i read somewhere that you shouldn't clean a 22lr barrel too often, something to do with lubricant. I'm not sure what the score is really, my gun shop said to only bother when it starts missing, which would imply every five rounds!!

 

I clean the SAK about the same amount.

[richie 1]

Blimey, that's quite a difference. Makes me wonder how ethical it is to use Winchesters when I now know there's a very good chance 20% may not hit the intended mark.

 

Have you noticed any bad points to the Eleys? Cleanliness or noise for example?

 

What to do with 750 Winnies? Kill some more paper methinks.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

i cant see any negatives with the eleys, they do the job well, now dont get me wrong, i dont hit every target as the odd one gets a lucky break now & again.

 

just buy 100 eley & give them a bash..

[jamie g 17]

hi i use eleys in mine and they group super at 60 yards finger nail size have you cleaned the barrel at all ? how long have you had the rifle was it from new ? the reason i ask is i find 22lr shoots better with a dirty barrel

 

when i got mine from new i set it up then boresnaked it then carried on shooting at the target again so see if it was off. a couple of shots was off but i new that mite be the case after cleaning the barrel. so carried on and it was soon on again.

 

after that i leave it now intill i see the groups opening up. once they do that i boresnake and just leave it till it go's off again.

 

this is what i would do

 

1. try some different ammo as the winnys wasnt that good in mine i had flyers[ but your find most ammo will get the odd flyer]

 

2. make sure the mod is screwed up tight if it come abit loose it will make the bullets go all over the shop. if this dont work try the rifle with mod off.

 

3. after shooting allways keep the bolt area action clean. well this mite not make a difference to the accuracy it will stop misfires and jams because most 22lr ammo is very waxy.

 

4. i no it sounds silly but have you got the trigger sorted ? i ask as my grouping was pretty good before i got a brooks trigger kit but still sometimes i slipped the odd shot with standard trigger because your never sure when its going to break. as they have a fair amount of creep with the kit your groups will improve no end

 

HOPE THIS HELPS LET US NO HOW YOU GET ON

Edited September 10, 2008 by jamie g

[richie 1]

just to add: if you have only ever trid winnies, dont change anything on your rifle, get hold as as many different makes of ammo & do a test to see what works.

 

rich

[richie 1]

hi i use eleys in mine and they group super at 60 yards finger nail size have you cleaned the barrel at all ? how long have you had the rifle was it from new ? the reason i ask is i find 22lr shoots better with a dirty barrel

 

when i got mine from new i set it up then boresnaked it then carried on shooting at the target again so see if it was off. a couple of shots was off but i new that mite be the case after cleaning the barrel. so carried on and it was soon on again.

 

after that i leave it now intill i see the groups opening up. once they do that i boresnake and just leave it till it go's off again.

 

this is what i would do

 

1. try some different ammo as the winnys wasnt that good in mine i had flyers[ but your find most ammo will get the odd flyer]

 

2. make sure the mod is screwed up tight if it come abit loose it will make the bullets go all over the shop. if this dont work try the rifle with mod off.

 

3. after shooting allways keep the bolt are clean. well this mite not make a difference to the accuracy it will stop misfires and jams because most 22lr ammo is very waxy.

 

4. i no it sounds silly but have you got the trigger sorted ? i ask as my grouping was pretty good before i got a brooks trigger kit but still sometimes i slipped the odd shot with standard trigger because your never sure when its going to break. as they have a fair amount of creep with the kit your groups will improve no end

 

HOPE THIS HELPS LET US NO HOW YOU GET ON

 

 

good advice, also every now & again, take the moderator off & make sure the crown hasnt got a load of crud around it, youll be surprised how quick it gets caked..

[Finkley 1]

Hi guys,

 

Just to clarify. Bought the rifle from new about 4 months ago. Have only tried Winnies and I clean the bolt and rifle (excluding the bore) religiously after every session, sometimes twice a day.

 

Bought the Brookes trigger kit and have fitted the red tube and the second lightest spring, really impressed for under £9 delivered although i still have a tiny bit of creep.

 

I always make sure the mod is tight, although I haven't tried shooting it without the mod, might give that a go at some point.

 

From what you guys have said, it sounds to me like the ammo isn't the best. I'm going to buy some Eleys next time I think. If it was a problem with the crown or rifle in general I would expect to see a bigger spread between the other four. It's all a little odd.

 

Thanks very much for all the advice, I'll rattle these Winnies off and pop into the gun shop next week for some Eleys. I'll shoot some groups and let you know how it gets on.

 

One last quick question, do I need to scrub the bore completely clean of all the Winchester lube before shooting the eleys, using a solvent or something. Or, will a few pulls with a boresnake suffice?

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[richie 1]

you sometimes clean it 2 times a day ?

 

too much..

 

ive had mine for a year now & have put 1000`s through it, the action has only been cleaned a handfull of times..

 

but i do clean the sak every 200/400 shots & the barrel every now & again.

[ace32 4]

hiya peeps,i have the cz 452 style .22, 16" barrel,and a .22 mod 2e brno, with sak mod,use win subs all the time,tried eleys the other week,in both guns,metal and plastic 5 shot mags,and they just dont feed very well at all,front of bullet bending upwards when feeding,so jamming,so was a bit worried about useing them,dont know what caused this to happen,might be me being too easy on the bolt,might try them again this weekend,bought 50,still got 35 left,will do a bit paper punching for a bit fun,i zero my rifles at 19 yds,to give a 53yd zero and dont miss too many,got a brooks on the style,2nd spring but it s a bit light,going to put the 3rd spring in,try that,if it ever stops bloody raining,i do find the win subs spot on but plenty fliers,and the latest batch seems made of softer lead,a lot more damage to the bunnies head on impact,not complaining,a dead bunny is a dead bunny,ian

[jamie g 17]

Hi guys,

 

Just to clarify. Bought the rifle from new about 4 months ago. Have only tried Winnies and I clean the bolt and rifle (excluding the bore) religiously after every session, sometimes twice a day.

 

Bought the Brookes trigger kit and have fitted the red tube and the second lightest spring, really impressed for under £9 delivered although i still have a tiny bit of creep.

 

I always make sure the mod is tight, although I haven't tried shooting it without the mod, might give that a go at some point.

 

From what you guys have said, it sounds to me like the ammo isn't the best. I'm going to buy some Eleys next time I think. If it was a problem with the crown or rifle in general I would expect to see a bigger spread between the other four. It's all a little odd.

 

Thanks very much for all the advice, I'll rattle these Winnies off and pop into the gun shop next week for some Eleys. I'll shoot some groups and let you know how it gets on.

 

One last quick question, do I need to scrub the bore completely clean of all the Winchester lube before shooting the eleys, using a solvent or something. Or, will a few pulls with a boresnake suffice?

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

boresnake will be fine mate or you could rod it if you wanted. but i would just use the boresnake.

 

it is most likely the ammo if its just the odd flyers. if was the crown they would be all over the place

 

richie's advise is good to allways take the mods off after use ! the crud and damp will go back down the mod and rot the crown overtime. spray abit of wd40 in the mod and leave so the thread is up on abit of paper.

 

just give the face and crown a light wipe over and check a cotton bud will be fine. and when you use the boresnake make sure you pull it out nice and stright

 

i bet any money its the ammo mate. im lucky as a friend of mine gets it for 25 pound for 500 eley rounds !

[richie 1]

hiya peeps,i have the cz 452 style .22, 16" barrel,and a .22 mod 2e brno, with sak mod,use win subs all the time,tried eleys the other week,in both guns,metal and plastic 5 shot mags,and they just dont feed very well at all,front of bullet bending upwards when feeding,so jamming,so was a bit worried about useing them,dont know what caused this to happen,might be me being too easy on the bolt,might try them again this weekend,bought 50,still got 35 left,will do a bit paper punching for a bit fun,i zero my rifles at 19 yds,to give a 53yd zero and dont miss too many,got a brooks on the style,2nd spring but it s a bit light,going to put the 3rd spring in,try that,if it ever stops bloody raining,i do find the win subs spot on but plenty fliers,and the latest batch seems made of softer lead,a lot more damage to the bunnies head on impact,not complaining,a dead bunny is a dead bunny,ian

 

 

i wouldnt say that their bang-on then.... fliers tell me that its shite ammo, youll end up letting too many getting away..

[Geoff.C 0]

I think most .22 subs vary a bit in reliability. I have recently tried CCI, Winchester, magtech and Eley. I seem to be able to shoot reasonable groups with any type, then the odd wild shot shot will happen, not even on the target at all never mind the centre. The Eley are definitely the best of the bunch, very reliable and consistent. Strangely pungent smell from Eley though, must be a different propellant. I was told by a lady who used to shoot .22 for England, that Eley match rounds were made on the newest machines and the cheaper "Club" spec ammo was made on the older machines.

So maybe some of the manufacturers have some very old machines.