Inherited or trainable?

[labsnlurchers 39]

Right people after reading a recent post on here i got to thinking about genetics and working dogs

I've trawled the mrs's uni stuff and scholar and managed to find diddly squat on dogs apart from trainability is inherited and not trainable

i found this on here, it's about horses....

performance for speed is about 35% heritable. In other words only about 35% of all the variation that is observed in track performance is controlled by heritable factors, the remaining 65% are attributable to other influences, such as training, management and nutrition.

and this on scholar about humans

[b]The development of performance in competition is achieved through a training process that is designed to induce automation of motor skills and enhance structural and metabolic functions. Training also promotes self-confidence and a tolerance for higher training levels and competition. In general, there are two broad categories of athletes that perform at the highest level:

 

I. the genetically talented (the thoroughbred); and

 

II. those with a highly developed work ethic (the workhorse) with a system of training guiding their effort.[/b]

 

it should make a good discussion as to what's more important in a good working dog........Good Genetics or Good Training/Management??

Edited August 28, 2008 by labsnlurchers

[Guest WILF]

it should make a good discussion as to what's more important in a good working dog........Good Genetics or Good Training/Management??

 

They are both as important as each other..........but without the 1st, you may be wasting your time on the 2nd.

[labsnlurchers 39]

If you had the choice of one what would it be? a well bred dog badly trained or a poorly bred, well trained dog?

[Guest WILF]

If you had the choice of one what would it be? a well bred dog badly trained or a poorly bred, well trained dog?

 

In a terrier..........well bred and badly trained!

[Guest Eamon.Mc]

Well labsandlurchers you sure know how to breed em!!!

 

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/index...c=61243&hl=

[labsnlurchers 39]

Well labsandlurchers you sure know how to breed em!!!

 

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/index...c=61243&hl=

 

yeah. all pups sold to working homes. all people i know an who know my dogs.

Edited August 28, 2008 by labsnlurchers

[alimac 882]

wilf has two good points in his posts, id agree that the percentages on the horses would be similar to what dogs would be, yes a well bred dog will improve you chances of ending up with a world beater, but im a believer that its alot (but not all) to do with you get out what you put in..

[Irish Lurcher 1,013]

Well labsandlurchers you sure know how to breed em!!!

 

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/index...c=61243&hl=

 

yeah. all pups sold to working homes. all people i know an who know my dogs.

 

Congrats on getting working homes for your pups

 

One thing you will discover on this site is that if your topic is not in the norn, then there must be somthing wrong, some people just cant seem to think outside the box.

[Guest Eamon.Mc]

Ok so you think you can train any terrier to go to ground, find, stay, mix and battle with his quarry usually much bigger than itself?? I don't think so. If that was the case every lad that wants a good earth dog could buy any terrier and follow a simple step by step train your earthdog programme. These dogs are not like a retriever or a bushing dog, any dog can bush, retrievers can be trained, ratters can pick up their trade from watching other dogs, but tell me how you train a dog to do what a terrier does several feet below ground????????? Even a terrier tied at a dig does not know what goes on under the soil. IMO it is an inbuilt instinct that can at times maybe surface in certain individual dogs, which I'm sure we'll hear about, ie;the pet that I rescued and it was a great digging dog or the pet that I had that took to it like a duck to water!! Look how many dogs fail each year, and how many actually make the grade to be worthy of breeding from. To say that finding, staying and sticking to the task is a behaviour that can be learned by a dog sounds good, but I do not think it is possible unless the genetics or instinct is there THE DOG WILL NOT WANT TO DO IT.

None of my terriers sit or stay or walk on command, but they do their job as NATURE intended, I manage them as best I can and give them the best nutrition I can. But to train them to do what they do?? They do it because they WANT to, not because of training. You cannot compare human training and the instincts of an earthdog. JMO.

[scent 509]

If you had the choice of one what would it be? a well bred dog badly trained or a poorly bred, well trained dog?

 

If I had the choice It would be a well bred , well trained dog.

 

If you had the choice, would you rather be a tractor or a dolphin?

i think id prefer a well bred dog cause i dont think you can train a dog to stay til dug to or you cant train a dog to be hard ,i think thats all in the breeding

[Guest bitsa lurcher]

If you had the choice of one what would it be? a well bred dog badly trained or a poorly bred, well trained dog?

 

if we are talking terriers i would opt for a well bred terrier , the reason being .....it is almost impossible to train a terrier to go to ground , find , stay or hold ....any piece of cr*p can go to ground and bay

 

on the other hand if we are talking lurchers , i have seen poorly bred dogs catch and retrieve and i have well bred dogs in my kennels ....as you allready now because you've seen them work

 

have you sold all the doodle pups ???

[prohunter 0]

personaly i think in terriers you need to have it breed in to them like scent said. but in lurchers i think it is 50/50 because you need the dog to have the talent there but you also need to work the dog to keep it fit so the ability can shine. for example a pro footballer has the ability but he still needs to train to keep him fit and on the ball.

[alimac 882]

eamon, i knew some fecker would start, and as it happens it was you ....if you would be so kind go back to the original post that started this thread, it states WORKING DOGS not just working terriers, yes it may be in the terrier section but i answered to the the question that was written. lets hope your season starts soon so you can vent your frustrations out on your shovel instead of your key board

 

just to add you can feck the best bred terrier in the world up if you dont bring it up well showing it differents stuff at different ages, so yes in my opinion there is still a way a owner can increase the chances of sucsess of making a good dog..

Edited August 28, 2008 by alimac

[Guest jbswildlife]

I have a fell terrier that is amazing to watch at 1year tearing away at the bushes, he will work at a 20 foot length in front of me and will instanly respond to the whistle. problem this terrier has his own ideas at times and when he decides to bolt there is nothing I can do about it. he will disappear for 20mins returning to the same spot that i was shouting like a madman at him to return. he knows i am calling cause he runs at full sprint and when you call he turns his head slightly but keeps going. at this time nothing safe he will attack other dogs and hates sheep with a passion even though he walks ammounst them daily. i belive the problem lies with the excersie they get the more you run the dog the better he responds but to see this perfect working terrier switch modes is unbeliveable any ideas guys

[Guest Eamon.Mc]

eamon, i knew some fecker would start, and as it happens it was you ....if you would be so kind go back to the original post that started this thread, it states WORKING DOGS not just working terriers, yes it may be in the terrier section but i answered to the the question that was written. lets hope your season starts soon so you can vent your frustrations out on your shovel instead of your key board

 

just to add you can feck the best bred terrier in the world up if you dont bring it up well showing it differents stuff at different ages, so yes in my opinion there is still a way a owner can increase the chances of sucsess of making a good dog..

 

Why not put the topic in working dog health and training then?