Smithfields & Norfolks & Tumblers

[john hubery 9]

Little lurcher the dog David Pike bred my bitch of was a very old dog called Ashy (some where I have an old picture of him and the bitch David kept back for himself) the bitch he used I think came for the Norfolk area called Fruit Cake a bitch with a lot of collie in her, unfurtunetly David thought he was going to breed some thing better and use a first cross beddy we had to continue his line, the last time I met him he had 5 generations of these lurchers all like peas in a pod has they do they all reverted to the beddy cross, fawn rough haired not what he had all them years a go, he was happy with them but not for me , I went to see him will great hopes and came away empty handed.

 

Like I already said Im far from being an expert but I like to think I know enough to have a chat and get by, the husky thing, may not be has bad has it sounds, we are all frightened of change, but when you think about the huskys make up it has a lot going for it and has long has there isn't to much of it in there the things it has to offer feet, coat, staminer and power would not go a miss in a lurcher, after all in our lurcher X lurcher matings there are no real 1/4 of this and 3/16 of that once its in the mix you get what comes I afraid

 

None of us know it all no mater how long we have been in the game and how much we have none, we all or sould learn some thing knew all the time be it through meeting and talking to old hands your own experiences and even some times the knew kids on the block can come up with some thing that has been looking us all in the face for years, we sould all take things in try them if it works great if it doesn't you would never of known if you had not tryed it, Prices on dog are what the buyer is happy to pay, we have no right to tell a man he is paying too much for such and such if some one has some thing somebody else wants and they are happy to pay for it good on them, that does not mean that there aren't men out there will to take folk for a ride, but in reality for those of you that have bred a litter and reared the properly you will know it is not a cheap experience and and most pups go for a fraction of there real value, I dont want to get in to an argeement about how so and so raised a litter for the price of a 18% protine bag of dogmeal it would be nice to keep this tread going and all of us walk away with some thing we didn't have a little extra knowlage rant over I did babble on a bit there

 

Edited to say Sky cat now that is what I would call a very nice lurcher

Edited June 12, 2008 by john hubery

[Guest little lurcher]

All this talk about the definition of these lurchers! Could it just, maybe possible be that the lurchers described as Norfolks, Tumblers or whatever, are simply the result of many years breeding lurcher to lurcher?

 

Could these be them Naarfok dogs? I wonder!

John Bromiley had an attractive show dog called Isaac ,you probably remember it Skycat , that was a Norfolk type,and thats what it is now ,imo, a type.The difference between "specialist bred Norfolk and Tumbler lurcher pups " and lurcher to lurcher pups is in the price.Great pics ,is that the dog you had out with R?

 

 

There's 2 different bitches in those photos, although they are full sisters: the top one is the one you saw retrieving

 

Here's another pic of a dog that is very similar to the dog in those old photos Little Lurcher, and she is also a sister to the other two. Their grandfather was lurcher to lurcher for many generations and took all quarry before the ban, though he was not what I'd call a fen hare dog, though he caught more than a few with lurcher cunning.

 

the bitch on left and the one below are very typical of my dads breeding , seen so many of them mooching over the years , and yes certainly cunning enough for the hare

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Your right Chalky,the two things this site should be about are p*ss-taking in a good natured way,and exchange of information,I just read through this thread,very,very interesting,as for unanswered questions,I just remembered something,dont know why it popped into my head,what happened to the old working lurcher field trials?

 

 

Good words there Mackem,...

Edited June 16, 2008 by CHALKWARREN

[skycat 6,173]

"quote: Little lurcher the dog David Pike bred my bitch of was a very old dog called Ashy (some where I have an old picture of him and the bitch David kept back for himself) the bitch he used I think came for the Norfolk area called Fruit Cake a bitch with a lot of collie in her, unfurtunetly David thought he was going to breed some thing better and use a first cross beddy we had to continue his line, the last time I met him he had 5 generations of these lurchers all like peas in a pod has they do they all reverted to the beddy cross, fawn rough haired not what he had all them years a go, he was happy with them but not for me , I went to see him will great hopes and came away empty handed. "unquote"

 

My OH has just come in and has some more information about David Pike's dogs, as he knew the guy about in the early eighties. Ashy was in fact bred by Mick Douglas and Fruitcake was a 2nd cross Collie/Greyhound: both were owned by a bloke called Dave Hill, who now lives in Southern Ireland. Dave Hill had bought both of these dogs in as pups: I don't know the exact reason he sold Ashy on to D. Pike, but my OH thinks that he just didn't gel with the dog.

My OH bought a pup bred from these 2 dogs that he bought from Dave Hill, which was an outstanding bushing and ferreting dog, taking both fur and feather, but an indifferent hare dog and refused to ever look at a fox.

Got a couple of pics of her which I'll scan in at some stage.

[pritch 335]

I have a jeff burrell dog & i like him, he aint a world beater but he never would be becase of the amount of stuff he see's

[or lack of] its never bouncing with game at the best times & the last two seasons have been far from the best of times

mixy has decimated the rabbits so its just been picking up odds & sods but what he has taken he has taken well & my mate thought enough of him that he got a bitch off him [jeff] a week ago & its a smart, bold little fecker as for jeff himself to say he is different is putting mildly & he can talk a glass eye to sleep but if i had been through half the shit he has & come out of it as well i would be a happy man.the world would be a dull place without characters. ATB pritch

[Guest warren]

This is a very interesting thread for me, I have always liked the old fashioned Norfolks, Smithfields types. I only know about them what I have read, which isn't much I'm afraid. My young bitch Molly has alot in common with most of the lurcher pups I have had, She would cripple herself or one of my little dogs at play. I realy have had to bully her to stop before she doese dammage. Her coat could be a tad differnt to what I have been used to, when she casted it came out in big clots, with my help. She has finished with a good double coat. She looked cobby one day and shaped up the next, she looks nothing like the photo John Hubery put up on this thread and it was only taken a month ago. On her own she is a natural, a preditor with one thing on her mind. She is a fair hunter, a very good finisher (catcher with style) about the bravest young jumper I have seen. After adding that I have done very little with her, she is mad keen and she will stay that way untill the back end of August. Call me a silly old sentimenalist if you like because I would love to think I have a bit of Norfolk, Smithfield histry mooching the land with me, even if I am aware they are simply, LURCHERS.

Regards Warren

[Guest Zak]

a excellent read this, im learning so much, keep it coming, this must be the best thread i have read on here so far.

thanks.

[breeze 1,278]

i have also met the man a couple of times at shows, the first time BREEZE, told me to have a chat with him as hes an intresting fella, ........ breeze is a wanker . fook me can he talk,

 

 

I remember that day TOMO..... After listening to him for about 15 minute's and only on maybe the 3rd page out of 20 of his photo album, I noticed you keep looking at me shaking your head .... Ah not to worry you had an hour to kill

 

Back onto the topic.... I had a pup from his breeding a few year's back that Looked the same sort of stamp has Warren's, I just used to say he was Lurcher x Lurcher breeding when anyone asked..... it was easier and less time consuming having to explain what he was . If truth's known I don't know what he was " Smithfield ????? Norfolk ???? OR Tumbler ???? there's only Jeff would know I suppose. I had him from a good mate, after I had just lost a young Collie type bitch and this dog pup was mine if I wanted him. He was out my mate's bitch (bred by Jeff) who was mated to her son, out of a previous litter...... NOW... whether the closeness of the mating was anything to do with it, but at around 7 month's of age this once sound pup suddenly became lame. It was as if he had stood on a stone or maybe a picked up a thorn in his pad. A few day's followed and he didn't come right so a trip to the Greyhound vet's and after a few x-ray's found him to have Hip dysplacia..... So unfortunately while he was under anaethestetic the right thing had to be done.....

 

MOSS ..... at 6 month's

 

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Call me a silly old sentimenalist if you like because I would love to think I have a bit of Norfolk, Smithfield histry mooching the land with me, even if I am aware they are simply, LURCHERS.

Regards Warren

 

 

That is a VERY 'sane and sensible' ,..educated and honest attitude you have developed there Warren....

All the best,..CHALKWARREN...

Edited June 19, 2008 by CHALKWARREN

[john hubery 9]

This topic has got me very intrested, unfurtunetly to night I must go and help my old dad empty a bottle of whisky because I will be at the welsh with warren this week end but when I get back in I will do my best to find the pictures of david pikes ashy and rest of the family, keep it going people I will be back

[Rolfe 2]

God this thread stirs up some old memories from my younger days. As a youth my dream was to own a true "Norfolk Lurcher" and the name Mick Douglas still causes my heart to beat a lttle faster.... the times i nearly got to Yarmouth to meet the man and his dogs..........but something always came up and i never ever got there. There is something about the Norfolk "Type" of lurcher that just shouts legend to me. I was brought up on a diet of old poaching books, pictures, traps, and old warreners.... and the so called romantic side of poaching exploits........which we all know is not the case at all with these things, but it certainly stirred the young heart and instilled a love for lurchers and running dogs that endures to this day.

The Smithfield blood may or may not run in todays modern lurchers....i for one would like to think it does.....but it is something that can never be proven for sure. Some wonderful lurchers appear from time to time that look identical to some of the old "Warrener Type" cur dogs from yesteryear.......but only look like.......we could never know if they worked the same or have inherited some of the old traits. The Smithfield as such.......was probably a cur type dog anyway....i can't see the drovers of years gone by being particular in what they crossed with there dogs as long as there was strong herding blood infused somewhere, be that bob-tail, beardie, or collie blood. Still.......some blood from years gone by must be flowing somewhere within todays working running dogs.

As a conclusion to this tale............i did once own a Norfolk type lurcher.........and was it the stuff of myths and legends?

Well it caught rabbits.......and retrieved live to hand.........but i have had better before and since........but nothing is perfect.......... or is it?

[john hubery 9]

Skycat could your OH's bitch have been from the same little has my bitch, not 100 % sure but born around 1988

[rabitin girl 16]

Really interesting thread , Does anyone remember a guy called Aubrey Fryer ? , my ex OH had one of his dogs back in the late seventies , and it looked very similar to the dogs on this thread.

[Rolfe 2]

Really interesting thread , Does anyone remember a guy called Aubrey Fryer ? , my ex OH had one of his dogs back in the late seventies , and it looked very similar to the dogs on this thread.

That name rings a bell RG.........where do i know it from?........didn't he used to write articles in one of the mags.

 

Rolfe.

[Guest warren]

Really interesting thread , Does anyone remember a guy called Aubrey Fryer ? , my ex OH had one of his dogs back in the late seventies , and it looked very similar to the dogs on this thread.

Wow Rabitin Girl you surley could have stired something up here. This is brilliant, come on Phil and the rest of you mooching, lurcher Men and Girls that could shed more light on this brilliant topic.

Regards Warren