matulkoh 66 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 it works !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post
matulkoh 66 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 BELLMAN AND FLINT do not make the collars the same firm who make's the box designed the collar for him and they make em no B&F makes transmitter by them self i spoke to director of Stubai and also with Emma from B&F Quote Link to post
burnie69 376 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Look i'm not bellman and flint or have share's or anything connected with this company all i'm saying is lets give this bloke some credit he got off his arse and did something about improving terrier location its up to you boys if you want to save a couple of quid but feck me at £293 including p+p its a bargain in my eyes or maybe you havent lost a class terrier to ground with a deban on like i have Quote Link to post
Guest Corkonian Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Your dead right burnie good to see someone having put the time and money into R&D. BUT no one on hear IMO should go telling plain lies to try and sell a product for someone they have nothing to do with (or people/companies that they do know for that matter). matulkoh: when you get your kit - post on hear to verify that the Pieps box bought from a 3rd party vendor does (or does not ) work correctly with the B&F collar. The young lads and less well off terrier men can go the matulkoh route and the rest of ye millionaires can follow your altruistic tendencies and buy the full kit from B&F. Quote Link to post
burnie69 376 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 BUT no one on hear IMO should go telling plain lies to try and sell a product for someone they have nothing to do with (or people/companies that they do know for that matter). Not telling lies [bANNED TEXT] just saying [bANNED TEXT] i was told Quote Link to post
swanseajack 227 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Your dead right burnie good to see someone having put the time and money into R&D. BUT no one on hear IMO should go telling plain lies to try and sell a product for someone they have nothing to do with (or people/companies that they do know for that matter). matulkoh: when you get your kit - post on hear to verify that the Pieps box bought from a 3rd party vendor does (or does not ) work correctly with the B&F collar. The young lads and less well off terrier men can go the matulkoh route and the rest of ye millionaires can follow your altruistic tendencies and buy the full kit from B&F. It has to work with the collar, they run on 457Khz... as for B&F not guaranteeing the collar if u dont buy the box of them what a load of shit, they keep records of who they sell the bits to and if u haven't purchased the box of them.... they wont guarantee the collar... get one of your mates who has bought box and collar of B&F to send it back if u ever have a problem ... there's been lots on ebay over the last few months, some very cheap ones... I got nuffin against B&F I'm just a tight fecker... I did write a post on why they work but it's dissapeared... Quote Link to post
swanseajack 227 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Avalanche transmitter technology has been around since the 1970s with very little core improvement other than cost reduction. The main change in recent years has been the rise of digital receivers with little arrows and LED read- outs which make operation of these systems more user-friendly for those who rarely use them. Though many of the receivers are now digital, the signals are still analog, and they all operate on the same frequency (457 Khz) which means any avalanche transmitter can work with any avalanche receiver, regardless of manufacturer. The 457 Khz frequency is an international standard that was put aside for rescue devices in 1968. This relatively low frequency (just below the AM dial on a radio) was chosen for rescue work because the signal is relatively unobstructed by walls, concrete, snow, ground, and human bodies, etc. The new Bellman and Flint terrier telemetry rig, which uses an avalanche receiver and 457 Khz transmitter is going to sell for over $500 -- twice the cost of the new Deben system which, in turn, is twice the cost of the old Deben system. Bellman and Flint seem to be using an unmodified Pieps DSP (digital signal processing) box as their locator. These locators are made in Austria, and sell for about $350 retail. The chief advantage of the Pieps DSP box for avalanche rescue is that it can locate multiple burials at once -- a common problem with avalanches, but a rare problem with terriers underground. An alternative to the $350 Pieps receiver shown above is the 457 Opti 4 Pieps receiver shown below, which costs just $160, and seems to do everything we actually need in the dog world -- and a little bit more. I am unclear as to why this receiver was not selected by Bellman and Flint, or why it should not be selected by others now. The Pieps 457 Opti 4 has a battery reserve indicator, optical display with 4 LED's, a range of 60 to 70 meters (180 to 200 feet), precision localization to approximately 30 cm (11 inches), volume control with distance marking, built-in speaker, an earphone jack, and a 5-Year Warranty. Like all avalanche locators it will pick up a 457 Khz transmitter signal. What about the collar? Several companies make 457 Khz transmitters, and one of these was apparently modified into a collar-locator by Bellman and Flint. A picture of the Bellman and Flint collar is not shown on their web site, but they admit it is bigger than the transmitter used by Deben. One 457 Khz avalanche transmitter already being used for dogs is the Ortovox Military D1 Transmitter, which has a 30 meter range, and is pictured below. This transmitter comes with a small slit in the back through which to thread a dog collar. It is for sale at Backcountry.com for $85. Pieps also sells a small 457 Khz transmitter. It's called a Pieps Powder Peep Beacon and is sold separately for about $75. This may be what Bellman and Flint have modified with a magnetic switch (like Merlin hawk locators have), but it's hard to know without seeing a collar. What about electrical interference from overhead power lines? The Bellman and Flint site does not say their collars are immune to power line interference, but all the avalanche locators seem to be somewhat resistant. That said, as one avalanche box manufacturer notes, "Irregular readings can be caused by . . . power lines, electrical storms, and electrical generating equipment." Perhaps this is why no claims of resistance to electrical interference are mentioned on the Bellman and Flint web site. nicked from here click here Quote Link to post
Squirrel_Basher 17,100 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 SWANSEA JACK-Quality mate .Im off to the states in March does anyone know if OUTDOOR WORLD stocks the finder equipment. Cant find any sign of it on their website.Any American members please pm me. Quote Link to post
Guest Robbie Morran Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I bet there is a good write up on the B & F , in Mr Darcys next book :whistle: :whistle: some people every penny counts....... you sure will but i swear on scoobies life i have never recieved one penny discount. in fact the box aint mine as such, there are three of us with 2 sets between us. U cant think much of yr pooch , poor animal , only pulling on yr chain mate Quote Link to post
matulkoh 66 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Avalanche transmitter technology has been around since the 1970s with very little core improvement other than cost reduction. The main change in recent years has been the rise of digital receivers with little arrows and LED read- outs which make operation of these systems more user-friendly for those who rarely use them. Though many of the receivers are now digital, the signals are still analog, and they all operate on the same frequency (457 Khz) which means any avalanche transmitter can work with any avalanche receiver, regardless of manufacturer. The 457 Khz frequency is an international standard that was put aside for rescue devices in 1968. This relatively low frequency (just below the AM dial on a radio) was chosen for rescue work because the signal is relatively unobstructed by walls, concrete, snow, ground, and human bodies, etc. The new Bellman and Flint terrier telemetry rig, which uses an avalanche receiver and 457 Khz transmitter is going to sell for over $500 -- twice the cost of the new Deben system which, in turn, is twice the cost of the old Deben system. Bellman and Flint seem to be using an unmodified Pieps DSP (digital signal processing) box as their locator. These locators are made in Austria, and sell for about $350 retail. The chief advantage of the Pieps DSP box for avalanche rescue is that it can locate multiple burials at once -- a common problem with avalanches, but a rare problem with terriers underground. An alternative to the $350 Pieps receiver shown above is the 457 Opti 4 Pieps receiver shown below, which costs just $160, and seems to do everything we actually need in the dog world -- and a little bit more. I am unclear as to why this receiver was not selected by Bellman and Flint, or why it should not be selected by others now. The Pieps 457 Opti 4 has a battery reserve indicator, optical display with 4 LED's, a range of 60 to 70 meters (180 to 200 feet), precision localization to approximately 30 cm (11 inches), volume control with distance marking, built-in speaker, an earphone jack, and a 5-Year Warranty. Like all avalanche locators it will pick up a 457 Khz transmitter signal. What about the collar? Several companies make 457 Khz transmitters, and one of these was apparently modified into a collar-locator by Bellman and Flint. A picture of the Bellman and Flint collar is not shown on their web site, but they admit it is bigger than the transmitter used by Deben. One 457 Khz avalanche transmitter already being used for dogs is the Ortovox Military D1 Transmitter, which has a 30 meter range, and is pictured below. This transmitter comes with a small slit in the back through which to thread a dog collar. It is for sale at Backcountry.com for $85. Pieps also sells a small 457 Khz transmitter. It's called a Pieps Powder Peep Beacon and is sold separately for about $75. This may be what Bellman and Flint have modified with a magnetic switch (like Merlin hawk locators have), but it's hard to know without seeing a collar. What about electrical interference from overhead power lines? The Bellman and Flint site does not say their collars are immune to power line interference, but all the avalanche locators seem to be somewhat resistant. That said, as one avalanche box manufacturer notes, "Irregular readings can be caused by . . . power lines, electrical storms, and electrical generating equipment." Perhaps this is why no claims of resistance to electrical interference are mentioned on the Bellman and Flint web site. nicked from here click here MAY BE the best receive box is Mammut Baryowox which use two antenas work in digital and also anologue mode for bigger range Quote Link to post
ROZ 0 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I for one did'nt put the price of the b&f locator before my dogs life yes it is more money than deben and other locators mentioned on here but got the kit and that was that it's been a long time coming when you buy from other sources theirs allway extras i'v found anyway ie tax/ postage Quote Link to post
Beck 17 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I for one did'nt put the price of the b&f locator before my dogs life yes it is more money than deben and other locators mentioned on here but got the kit and that was that it's been a long time coming when you buy from other sources theirs allway extras i'v found anyway ie tax/ postage cant agree more! nobody likes wasting £ but this locators been worth every penny ! Quote Link to post
matulkoh 66 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I for one did'nt put the price of the b&f locator before my dogs life yes it is more money than deben and other locators mentioned on here but got the kit and that was that it's been a long time coming when you buy from other sources theirs allway extras i'v found anyway ie tax/ postage cant agree more! nobody likes wasting £ but this locators been worth every penny ! what y say on that y can mammut switch to analogue and can find y dog more than 15m in ground, the signal can t be changed by roks, cables, or metal as it can be when y use digital. All rescues services use mammut because of his digital and analogue mode. im gonna test it and i let y know. Quote Link to post
Guest Corkonian Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 matulkoh: if you get the 2 antenna box you might have more range but won't have the accuracy of the 3 antenna Pieps. Last time I looked at independant sites the Pieps appeared to be the only one with the 3. rozesky/Beck: you're not putting your terrier in any danger by buying the Pieps box elsewhere - that's the point of this thread Quote Link to post
matulkoh 66 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 matulkoh: if you get the 2 antenna box you might have more range but won't have the accuracy of the 3 antenna Pieps.Last time I looked at independant sites the Pieps appeared to be the only one with the 3. rozesky/Beck: you're not putting your terrier in any danger by buying the Pieps box elsewhere - that's the point of this thread i know but it work just with digital signal, and it tests mammut won, we will see i ll inform y Quote Link to post
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