Help with accuracy problem

[Mr_Logic 5]

Right then... My Howa in 223 has been causing me problems the past couple of days.

 

I feed it el cheapo Wolf stuff. Before anyone says, "Well there's your problem" I was getting 1-2 inch groups with it at 100 yards, with the odd flyer. Given the price, I was happy enough with that, as an informal target and occasional fox/bunny/muntjac gun it's good enough.

 

But... I changed the scope over from the Nikko to the MTC and then to a Richter Optik which I had lurking. The MTC has issues holding zero and with its turret adjustments, which is why I took it off. So, off out today with the Howa + Richter Optik scope, and I was getting 2 inch groups or so, but I was also getting about 1 flyer every 5 rounds. They're not minor either, I had one that was only JUST on an A4 page (rest of group pretty close to the middle).

 

I've checked the mounts are tight, all stock screws are tight. Scope looks OK and on my old Sako 22-250 gave 1/2" groups. Moderator doesn't look overly dirty and is regularly sprayed with Napier cleaner.

 

Could it be a fouled barrel? I've been cleaning it with the Napier and it's been coming up with clean boresnake/patches. However, on the moderator the powder in the wolf stuff seems to stick more than normal - I am having a devil of a job getting it off, even with 009.

 

I will get hold of some other ammo to try, but if anyone has any ideas please speak up

[rob reynolds uk 3]

if you getting a tight group with five why is one doing a flyer ? cheep ammo id say plus clean your barrel with a good barrel cleaner like kg12 ect or even tetra copper solvent, give it a good scrub then leave with solvent in for a few hrs,then do it all over again just to be on the safe side ..it can take many hrs to clean a barrel if its really fowled up ..check your scope as well make sure its not moveing .how old is the scope ?springs in side do give up and go week in time ..have you tryed it with the mod off ? have a good look at the pic below it may even be you thats doing it

[jamie g 17]

Right then... My Howa in 223 has been causing me problems the past couple of days.

 

I feed it el cheapo Wolf stuff. Before anyone says, "Well there's your problem" I was getting 1-2 inch groups with it at 100 yards, with the odd flyer. Given the price, I was happy enough with that, as an informal target and occasional fox/bunny/muntjac gun it's good enough.

 

But... I changed the scope over from the Nikko to the MTC and then to a Richter Optik which I had lurking. The MTC has issues holding zero and with its turret adjustments, which is why I took it off. So, off out today with the Howa + Richter Optik scope, and I was getting 2 inch groups or so, but I was also getting about 1 flyer every 5 rounds. They're not minor either, I had one that was only JUST on an A4 page (rest of group pretty close to the middle).

 

I've checked the mounts are tight, all stock screws are tight. Scope looks OK and on my old Sako 22-250 gave 1/2" groups. Moderator doesn't look overly dirty and is regularly sprayed with Napier cleaner.

 

Could it be a fouled barrel? I've been cleaning it with the Napier and it's been coming up with clean boresnake/patches. However, on the moderator the powder in the wolf stuff seems to stick more than normal - I am having a devil of a job getting it off, even with 009.

 

I will get hold of some other ammo to try, but if anyone has any ideas please speak up

 

if you have cleaned the barrel mate. it mite just need some shots down it again before the groups tighten back up. try with the mod off also. its not clipping it is it ?

[dicehorn 38]

Right then... My Howa in 223 has been causing me problems the past couple of days.

 

Could it be a fouled barrel? I've been cleaning it with the Napier and it's been coming up with clean boresnake/patches. However, on the moderator the powder in the wolf stuff seems to stick more than normal - I am having a devil of a job getting it off, even with 009.

 

I will get hold of some other ammo to try, but if anyone has any ideas please speak up

 

All good advice so far.

 

There are quite a few people out there with Howas and are regarded as very good value for the money

 

Bearing in mind you talk about barrel fouling. It could be that your brand of cartridges are causing a carbon ring to form in the throat of the barrel. This is quite hard to remove. Left there it will effect accuracy to quite a degree.

 

The best way of removing this carbon ring is to use JB Compound. After you have done your normal cleaning, put it on a patch and scrub the bore paying particular attention to the throat. Make sure you do not exit the bore with it as it will do the crown no good and don't put it on a phosphor brush.

 

When you are testing/zeroing ammo on these pleasant warm days, make sure you give plenty of time between shots as the heat from the shot and continued heat from the sun can cause alarming spreads in the normal hunting outfit .....No doubt you already know that !!.

 

Make sue your chamber is squeaky clean - build up of deposits here can cause the bullet to start off at an angle down the barrel = inaccuracy

 

And my pet hate? BORESNAKES Great to carry with you out in the field as an emergency tool - but not for cleaning as they can rub the crown at an angle - always use a one piece plastic coated rod along with a bore guide.

My philosophy being if we spend good money on rifles and scopes why cut corners on the cleaning of our toys

 

Finally...........go on...........put some decent ammo through it!!!! Well.........someone has to say it

 

Peter

 

......................

Theoben FAC S Type 52 foot lbs MTC Viper 6-24 x 56

Anschutz 1415 .22 rim S & B 8 x 56

Blaser R93 Luxus 22/250 NXS Nightforce 12-42 x 56

Blaser R93 Off Road 6.5 x 55 Swarovski 6-24 x 50

Edited May 8, 2008 by dicehorn

[landrover 6]

try a couple of different makes of ammo, i had the same problem with my tikka.243, setteled down with hornady ammo, as every one else as said just try everything you can, hope you find the problem

[Mr_Logic 5]

Thanks guys. I don't think the rifle is inherently problematic, when I first got it these things shot OK. Since then the scope has changed, first to MTC then to the Richter thing.

 

I have not been overly impressed with MTC so I will likely get a scope to go on it. Probably another Hawke Reflex. Cheap they may be, but my 243 holds zero and shoots well, so since I don't have spare cash right now that will do.

 

I will also go round tomorrow buying up brands of 223 to test. Will likely try 40gr V-max and 50gr AMerican Eagle, and have some Barnaul already (more from hope than anything!)

[SNAP SHOT 194]

Firstly i'd say don't go out and try all different types or brands of ammo, stick with one. The hornady v-max are inherantly accurate So i would start here.

Secondly keep the mod of for the test, my 243 has lost all accuracy with it and i dont know why, So off it's going to stay, its one of the first t8's out, and has it's time served.

thirdly, give the barrel a good cleaning, i fed the .243 cheap ammo and ended up with three hours cleaning to get the copper out, of which i never had a problem with before as i always kept it in check.

but to my amazement it was full of copper fouling after about 70 rounds of cheap ammo.

i would suggest forrest foam left in the barrel for around three hours with the barrel leaning slightly forward, to prevent the foam from getting into the action.

Then a good clean with the bore solvent, until the patches come out clean, then a light oil, clean out with meths then, dry off with a few patches,

take to the range then and see how it shoots the groups will tighten in after a few shots again,

When finished a light oil and store.

If this does not solve it i'd look at the mounts bases etc........

stick with a proven scope to see how you get on. .......one you know you can shoot well with............

 

it's a pain in the arse.........but one thing followed by another will narrow the matter down, not switching scopes ammo, etc, different brands,

stick with one brand you know shoots well through the gun...............Good luck

[jamie g 17]

Thanks guys. I don't think the rifle is inherently problematic, when I first got it these things shot OK. Since then the scope has changed, first to MTC then to the Richter thing.

 

I have not been overly impressed with MTC so I will likely get a scope to go on it. Probably another Hawke Reflex. Cheap they may be, but my 243 holds zero and shoots well, so since I don't have spare cash right now that will do.

 

I will also go round tomorrow buying up brands of 223 to test. Will likely try 40gr V-max and 50gr AMerican Eagle, and have some Barnaul already (more from hope than anything!)

 

get some federal soft points mate bet there shoot well.

[martin 332]

Is it a floating barrel,and,if it is then is it actually floating.Try putting a piece of paper down the gap,and,if it gets jammed,then take the stock off and try putting it back on first,and,if that doesn't help then you need to remove some of the stock to make sure that it is properly floating.I had the same trouble with my Browning 'A' bolt,and,just rubbed it down and sealed it again,and,back to clover leaf holes on the target...............Martin.

[Mr_Logic 5]

martin, hmm... it is a floating barrel, and I noticed that it seemed to have shifted slightly to one side so it isn't floating all the time (there is some movement there). I will have a look at that one, thanks for the tip.

[Mr_Logic 5]

It's fixed

 

I did everything everyone said, pretty much. Scrubbed the bore again yesterday and it was absolutely spotless. Put my Bushnell Trophy on there in place of cheap and nasty Richter thing, along with new mounts (had to, 1" as opposed to 30mm tube).

 

Also sanded off some of the stock to give the barrel more room, I think it would touch under certain circumstances.

 

Also got some more ammo to try - 55gr Barnaul and 50gr American Eagle hollow points.

 

the 50gr HPs group to roughly .75" at 100 yards. The Wolf are also back to about 1.5" to 2" which, while not brilliant by any standards, is accurate enough for their 18p/bang price tag.

 

I bought 100 American Eagle though, so since I have 86 left I will use them for a while. They certainly work on bunnies - had one to finish the afternoon at 100 yards, head shot, not much head left and spot on where I shot.

 

Edited May 9, 2008 by Mr_Logic

[jamie g 17]

It's fixed

 

I did everything everyone said, pretty much. Scrubbed the bore again yesterday and it was absolutely spotless. Put my Bushnell Trophy on there in place of cheap and nasty Richter thing, along with new mounts (had to, 1" as opposed to 30mm tube).

 

Also sanded off some of the stock to give the barrel more room, I think it would touch under certain circumstances.

 

Also got some more ammo to try - 55gr Barnaul and 50gr American Eagle hollow points.

 

the 50gr HPs group to roughly .75" at 100 yards. The Wolf are also back to about 1.5" to 2" which, while not brilliant by any standards, is accurate enough for their 18p/bang price tag.

 

I bought 100 American Eagle though, so since I have 86 left I will use them for a while. They certainly work on bunnies - had one to finish the afternoon at 100 yards, head shot, not much head left and spot on where I shot.

 

 

mate what i would do save a little and get a cracking scope for it. and only use the cheap ammo to dirty the barrel after its been cleaned. get some federal ammo and fox away

[Mr_Logic 5]

tbh, the Wolf stuff is very cheap, but at the range it's fine for informal practice. It's also fine on foxy, and bunnies and muntjac. It's not perfect but it's cheaper than HMR, so can't really argue too much.

 

The American Eagle will do me, I can't argue with around 3/4 inch groups really.

 

The Trophy's not the best scope but I can't afford a better one yet, need to pay off the rifles But yes, in the fullness of time...!

[garyw 0]

sounds to me like a copper problem in the barrel thats giving you the odd flyer ,if you reckon on a clean barrel then get it borescoped you will be surprised what you see.and i dont think the cheap ammo is helping.not having a dig there its just that you get what you pay for with ammo,get homeloading for your sanity