COURSING.

[Guest Frank]

Just wonderd how lurchers faird, before the saluki hybrids came a long?

Was their great lurchers, with famouse names , that took 5 out of 5 ect on the fens in Winter, without saluki in their make up?

[baz 463]

top chalker will be able to answer this one, he is that old he was around before saluki,s never mind saluki x,s..

[Guest Frank]

top chalker will be able to answer this one, he is that old he was around before saluki,s never mind saluki x,s..

 

...............ok Baz..

[miles 227]

He's definitely old enough Baz

 

But Snoops the one with ALL the "knowledge"

[baz 463]

[snoopdog 1,256]

He's definitely old enough Baz

 

But Snoops the one with ALL the "knowledge"

your right there poshpants ......its even telling now with the basic training .... .....jumping recall ect..ect ect ...

[snoopdog 1,256]

THE SALUKI CROSS GREYHOUND, WHAT A CONTROVERSIAL ANIMAL HE IS! ON THE ONE HAND HE IS

 

 

CONSIDERED THE BEST TYPE FOR SINGLE-HANDED HARE COURSING. MANY DEVOTED OWNERS SWEAR

 

 

BY THE SALUKI /GREYHOUNDS ABILITY TO UNRAVEL THE TWISTS AND TURNS OF HARE COURSING AND STATE THAT HE IS THE ONLY TYPE OF LONGDOG THAT CAN DO THIS TO A HIGH STANDARD ON A REGULAR BASIS. ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE ARE THOSE WHO STATE THAT THE SALUKI/GREYHOUND IS A STUPID ANIMAL WITH NO PLACE ON THE COURSING FIELD. THAT HE IS A RECALCITRANT NUMBSKULL AND ANY DOG WITH SALUKI BLOOD SHOULD BE DISPOSED OF AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. STRONG WORDS INDEED. WHAT IS THE TRUTH? WELL BOTH OPINIONS HAVE SOME BASIS IN FACT.

 

 

 

 

 

THE SALUKI /GREYHOUND IS NEITHER THE BEST COURSING HOUND THAT EVER LIVED, NOR IS HE A

 

 

USELESS NUMBSKULL AND THEN AGAIN, HE CAN BE BOTH! SOMETIMES AT THE SAME TIME. A WALKING PARADOX. ANYBODY WHO HAS OWNED A SALUKI/GREYHOUND WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN. I

 

 

HAVE SEEN SOME THAT HAVE NOT BEEN WORTH A DISH OF DOG FOOD AND THEN AGAIN I HAVE SEEN

 

 

SOME THAT ARE PRICELESS, PURE CLASS. LIKE MOST TYPES OF LURCHER / LONGDOG, THERE ARE GOOD

 

 

EXAMPLES AND BAD ONES AND ITS IN THE LUCK OF THE DRAW WHICH TYPE YOU GET, OR IS IT? WHY DO SOME DOGMEN ALWAYS HAVE THE TOP DOG, THE CREAM, BE IT LONGDOG OR LURCHER? THIS COULD BE EASILY EXPLAINED IF THE GOOD DOG ALWAYS WENT TO THE MAN WITH THE MONEY BUT THIS IS NOT

 

 

ALWAYS THE CASE, IN FACT THE LAD WITH THE HOME BRED DOG, BRED FROM " OLD GYP" TO A BITCH FROM "DOWN THE ROAD" IS JUST AS LIKELY TO HAVE A "REAL MACHINE" AS THE GUY WITH THE CASH TO BUY THE BEST.

 

 

 

 

 

SO, WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES THE SALUKI / GREYHOUND SUCH AN ENIGMA? WELL FIRST OF ALL MOST OF THE "SALUKI / GREYHOUNDS" ARE IN FACT MANY GENERATIONS AWAY FROM THE FIRST CROSS AND ARE

 

 

IN FACT LINE-BRED LURCHERS BUT STILL PREDOMINATLEY SALUKI / GREYHOUND. THE BETTER OF THE FIRST CROSSES ARE BRED FROM AND THEN THE BETTER OF THE SECOND CROSSES ARE BRED FROM. WITH EACH GENERATION OF THIS BEST TO BEST BREEDING POLICY THE PERCENTAGE OF CAPABLE LONGDOGS

 

 

IN A LITTER INCREASES, ALL BE IT, BY A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE. THIS, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT,

 

 

REPLACES THE "HYBRID VIGOUR" THAT IS THE MAINSTAY OF THE FIRST CROSS.NOW ALL THE "HYBRID

 

 

VIGOUR" IN THE WORLD WILL NOT GUARANTEE A TOP CLASS LONGDOG, NEITHER WILL A BEST TO BEST BREEDING POLICY BUT BOTH WILL HELP. IF YOU HAVE A DOG, EITHER A FIRST CROSS OR ONE BRED DOWN FROM A BEST TO BEST BREEDING POLICY YOU HAVE A BLANK PAGE ON WHICH TO WORK. SOME DOGS, NO MATTER HOW THEY HAVE BEEN BRED PROVE TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK WITH; THEY JUST DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE SUCCESSFUL WORKING DOGS. THERE COMES A TIME WHEN EVEN THE MOST PATIENT OF DOG MEN HAS TO REALISE THAT THE PROMISING PUP OF THE YEAR BEFORE WILL NOT BE THE ONE TO LIFT THE BRITISH SINGLE-HANDED COURSING TROPHY, THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE IMPORTANT. IF YOUR SIGHTS ARE JUST TO HAVE A COURSING DOG THAT WILL GIVE MANY DAYS OF SPORT AND HAVING THE

 

 

TOP CLASS DOG IS NOT THE BE ALL AND END ALL THAT IT IS TO SOME, THEN THINGS ARE A LITTLE

 

 

EASIER.

 

 

 

 

 

THE MAKE-UP OF THE SALUKI / GREYHOUND

 

TO UNDERSTAND THE SALUKI / GREYHOUND WE FIRST HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE BREEDS THAT GO INTO ITS MAKE-UP. ALTHOUGH WE HAVE STATED THAT A LOT OF SALUKI / GREYHOUNDS ARE A LONG WAY FROM THE ORIGINAL CROSS, NEVER THE LESS, IN ITS MAKE-UP THE SALUKI AND THE GREYHOUND ARE

 

 

THE TWO MAIN INFLUENCES. EVEN IF THERE WAS SOME OTHER BREED ADDED SOMETIME IN ITS

 

 

ANCESTORY ITS INFLUENCE WOULD BE SLIGHT. GENETICALLY SPEAKING, THE TWO MAIN BREEDS ARE

 

 

SO STRONG AND SO SIMILAR THAT THESE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT SHOULD CONCERN US.

 

 

 

 

 

THE GREYHOUND

 

THE GREYHOUND HAS BEEN BRED AS A COURSING, RACING ANIMAL FOR MANY HUNDREDS OF YEARS,

 

 

IN FACT THE GREYHOUND AND THE SALUKI WERE ORIGINALLY THE SAME ANIMAL. WHY ARE THEY NOW

 

 

SO VERY DIFFERENT? THINK OF THE TYPE OF COUNTRY, IN, WHICH, THE TWO ANIMALS HAVE TO DO THE

 

 

JOB REQUIRED OF THEM. THE GREYHOUND HAS BEEN BRED FOR SPEED, SPEED TO REACH THE HARE

 

 

BEFORE IT COULD REACH THE COVER THAT WAS ALWAYS ONLY A SHORT DISTANCE AWAY. SPEED TO CATCH THE HARE BEFORE IT SOUGHED. WHAT USE WAS THE GREAT STAMINA OF THE EASTERN

 

 

GREYHOUND (SALUKI) WHEN IT WAS PITTED AGAINST A FASTER DOG IN A COURSING MATCH? AS WAS

 

 

THE CASE IN ENGLAND. COURSING ABILITY AND SPEED WERE THE TWO MAIN CRITERIA BY WHICH A

 

 

GREYHOUND WAS JUDGED. SPEED TO LEAD UP AND COURSING ABILITY TO SCORE THE POINTS

 

 

NECESSARY TO WIN A COURSING MATCH. A DOG WAS BRED TO BEAT ANOTHER DOG, RATHER THAN TO CATCH GAME. SPEED AT THE COST OF STAMINA. COURSING ABILITY, AT THE COST OF LOSING THE

 

 

ABILITY TO LAY OFF THE HARE UNTIL A CHANCE APPEARED TO STRIKE, (THIS ABILITY TO "LAY OFF" IS SEEN IN MANY OF OUR GREATEST SINGLE-HANDED LONGDOGS) YES, SOME GREYHOUNDS COULD STILL CATCH HARES AND CATCH THEM WELL. I SAW A GREYHOUND IN THE EIGHTIES CATCH ALL FIVE HARES

 

 

IN A THIRTY TWO DOG STAKE AND THE TOTAL, YES TOTAL, RUNNING TIME WAS LESS THAN FIFTY

 

 

SECONDS, ALL HARES BEING CAUGHT ON THE RUN-UP. IT CAN HAPPEN BUT DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH.

 

 

IN THE GREYHOUND, WE HAVE A DOG THAT HAS SPEED TO BURN, SPEED AT THE COST OF STAMINA. FOR

 

 

A DOG THAT WOULD PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, SOMETHING WAS NEEDED TO BRING BACK THE STAMINA, THE SALUKI.

 

 

 

 

 

THE SALUKI

 

THE SALUKI IS AN INTELLIGENT DOG, THERE; I'VE SAID IT! HOW CAN I SAY THAT THE SALUKI IS IN ANY

 

 

WAY INTELLIGENT, WHEN THE OPINION OF BETTER MEN THAN I SAY DIFFERENT? WELL IF YOU JUDGE

 

 

INTELLIGENCE AS THE ABILITY TO LEARN, AS DO MOST INFORMED AND CLEVER DOG BEHAVIORIST,

 

 

THEN I MUST BE WRONG, BUT HOLD ON A MINUTE, LEARN WHAT? TO SIT, TO STAY, TO WALK TO HEEL,

 

 

YES ALL THESE ARE SIGNS OF AN INTELLIGENT DOG AND MANY LURCHERS CAN DO ALL THESE AND HUNT WELL. SOME OF THE CLEVEREST AND MOST RELIABLE HUNTERS ARE THE COLLIE BRED LURCHERS THAT YOU SEE FROM TIME TO TIME, BUT THE PURPOSE OF THIS SECTION IS TO DISCUSS THE SALUKI, SO HOW

 

 

CAN I CALL A SALUKI INTELLIGENT? WELL, IS NOT A CAT INTELLIGENT? BUT WHERE IS THE MAN WHO

 

 

CAN TRAIN A CAT TO SIT, TO STAY AND DO ALL THE TRICKS THAT ARE SIGNS OF INTELLIGENT

 

 

BEHAVIOUR? IF YOU ACCEPT THAT A CAT IS INTELLIGENT THEN YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT

 

 

INTELLGENCE CAN SHOW ITSELF IN DIFFERENT WAYS............ ...

[snoopdog 1,256]

obviously not written by me ....but some very interesting points wouldnt you agree .....

TO SEE A SALUKI CROSS ANTICIPATE THE RUNNING OF A HARE, TO SEE A SALUKI CROSS BOXING HIS HARE AND STRIKING AT JUST THE RIGHT MOMENT, THIS IS WHAT MAKES SINGLE-HANDED COURSING GREAT. SOME WOULD CALL IT COURSING SENSE, SOME WOULD CALL IT INTELLIGENCE, ME, I KNOW WHAT I THINK: THE SALUKI IS AN INTELLIGENT DOG.

 

 

 

 

 

WHY IS IT THAT IF A SALUKI IS INTELLIGENT, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO TRAIN TO A STANDARD THAT WOULD NOT STRAIN A STREET CUR? VERY DIFFICULT BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE, AS AN INCIDENT THAT I

 

 

SAW AT A SHOW WILL PROVE. A FRIEND OF MINE OWNS A PUREBRED SALUKI OF DESERT BREEDING THAT HE HAS TRAINED TO A HIGH STANDARD. AT ONE SHOW IN THE NORTHWEST A FEW YEARS BACK, HE WAS ACCOSTED BY A KNOWN PERSONALITY OF THE LURCHER WORLD. " A PURE SALUKI IS IT? " HE WAS ASKED, WHEN HE REPLIED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE THE WELL KNOWN PERSONALITY STATED "OF COURSE YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO LET IT OFF THE LEAD, WILL YOU?" AS A REPLY, THE OWNER OF THE SALUKI REMOVED THE DOGS COLLAR, TOLD THE DOG TO SIT AND STAY, AND THEN PROCEEDED TO WALK AWAY, WITH THE SAID SALUKI IN COMPLETE CONTROL, THIS IN A CROWD OF HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE. NOT A GREAT FEAT OF TRAINING PERHAPS BUT IT SHOWS THAT A SALUKI CAN BE TRAINED IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY AND TIME.

 

 

WHY IS A SALUKI DIFFICULT TO TRAIN? A CLUE MAY BE IN THE ORIGIN OF THE OF THE BREED. MOST OF THE DOGS BRED IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE DESCEND FROM THE GREY WOLF (CANIS LUPUS), THIS IS A PACK ANIMAL AND AS SUCH CONFORMS TO A STRICT SET OF RULES WITH-IN THE PACK SYSTEM. THE PACK LEADER CONTROLS THE PACK AND ANY MEMBER OF THE PACK WILL DO THEIR BEST TO WORK WITH-IN THE SYSTEM. A PACK MEMBER IS COMPLETELY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE LEADER AND IN A SENSE IS TRAINED TO ACT AND PERFORM UNDER THIS CONTROL. MAN HAS USED THIS

 

 

TRAINABILITY TO HIS OWN ENDS. A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE WORKING COLLIE. THE WORKING

 

 

COLLIE WORKS AS PART OF A PACK, HERDING THE SHEEP TOWARDS THE PACK LEADER, HIS MASTER. THIS STYLE OF HUNTING IS SEEN IN THE AFRICAN WILD DOG, WHERE A MEMBER OF THE WILD DOG PACK WORKS IN A SIMILAR MANNER, CONTROLLING THE PREY AND HERDING IT TOWARDS THE REST OF THE PACK.

 

 

 

 

 

IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED THAT THE SALUKI IS DESCENDED FROM THE DESERT WOLF, (A SUB SPECIES?) THIS WOLF IS A LONER AND AS SUCH IT DOES NOT HAVE TO CONFORM TO A SET OF RULES CONTROLLED BY A PACK LEADER. THE DESERT WOLF HAS TO THINK FOR ITSELF. THE ABILITY TO THINK FOR ITSELF IS THE VERY ABILITY THAT MAKES THE SALUKI THE GREAT SINGLE-HANDED DOG THAT IT IS, OR CAN BE.

 

 

SO COULD IT BE THAT THE SALUKI DOES NOT HAVE LESS INTELLIGENCE BUT LESS PACK INSTINCT, THAT IT HAS MORE SELF-RELIANCE?

 

 

 

 

 

ONE OTHER PROBLEM WITH THE SALUKI IS CONNECTED TO ITS ABILITY TO LAY OFF ITS HARE,

 

 

SOMETIMES, THE SALUKI WILL LAY OFF FOR TO LONG! WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE STATEMENT THAT " HE WILL NOT PICK-UP", THERE ARE TWO ASPECTS TO THIS, FIRST OF ALL, MANY DOGS DO NOT GET ENOUGH WORK AND TO LEARN TO USE ITS MOUTH PROPERLY, IT MUST HAVE PLENTY OF WORK. ONE OF THE

 

 

REASONS THAT SOME LURCHER MEN ALWAYS HAVE DECENT DOGS IS THE FACT THAT THEY GIVE THEIR DOGS PLENTY OF WORK. PLENTY OF WORK WILL NOT MAKE A GOOD DOG OUT OF A BAD ONE BUT IT WILL HELP TO GET THE BEST OUT OF IT. AS IN ALL THINGS, PRACTISE MAKES PERFECT. THE OTHER

 

 

REASON FOR LAYING OFF FOR TOO LONG IS THE FACT THAT THE SALUKI COMES FROM A DESERT

 

 

ENVIRONMENT. IN THE DESERT A SALUKI HAS THE TIME TO LAY OFF AND PICK HIS MOMENT, THERE ARE NO HEDGES OR DYKES IN THE DESERT, NO FIELD DRAINS IN WHICH TO SOUGH. THE FACT THAT THE

 

 

SALUKI DOES TAKE HIS TIME IS THE REASON THAT, IN ENGLAND, THE SALUKI IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST CHOICE FOR COURSING. WE DO NOT COURSE IN THE DESERT. THAT THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THIS, I AM WELL AWARE, BUT AS A GENERAL RULE, THE SALUKI NEEDS SOMETHING MORE, SOME MORE, POWER? SPEED? MAYBE WE CAN PUT IT DOWN TO THE NEED TO CATCH THE HARE, AS QUICKLY AS

 

 

POSSIBLE. IN ENGLAND WE DO NOT HAVE AS MUCH TIME AS THEY DO IN THE DESERT. IN THE FENS THE

 

 

SALUKI DOES HAVE SOME MORE TIME AND CAN SHOW HIS ABILITY TO A GREATER EXTENT. IN SOME OF THE HEDGE RIDDEN FARMS OF NORTHERN ENGLAND A FASTER BRED TYPE OF DOG CAN SOMETIMES HAVE THE HARE IN THE BAG, WHILST THE SALUKI IS THINKING ABOUT IT, HENCE THE

 

 

SALUKI / GREYHOUND.

 

 

 

 

 

THE SALUKI / GREYHOUND

 

 

 

 

SO, IS THE SALUKI / GREYHOUND THE BEST TYPE OF DOG FOR, TO USE AN AMERICAN TERM, OPEN FIELD COURSING? HE IS CERTAINLY HARD TO BEAT. EVERY YEAR WE (THE ASSOCIATION OF LURCHER CLUBS) HOLD THE BRITISH SINGLE-HANDED COURSING CHAMPIONSHIP, THIS BRINGS TOGETHER SOME OF THE BEST COURSING LONGDOGS IN THE COUNTRY. SOME OF THE BEST BUT NOT ALL, I'VE NO DOUBT THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF TOP CLASS DOGS THAT ARE NOT ENTERED IN ANY COMPETITION, DUE TO THE FACT THAT MANY LURCHERMEN ARE LONERS, AND WHO IS TO SAY THAT THEY ARE WRONG. GOOD LUCK TO THEM, TO EACH HIS OWN. NEVER THE LESS, AT THE BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP I WOULD SAY THAT NINTY PERCENT OF THE DOGS ENTERED ARE SALUKI / GREYHOUNDS. IN MATCH RUNNING, A MUCH DISCUSSED AND CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT, AGAIN I WOULD SUGGEST THAT OVER NINTY PERCENT OF DOG USED ARE SALUKI / GREYHOUNDS. WITH THE SALUKI / GREYHOUND YOU HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. A DOG WITH THE SPEED AND POWER TO GET TO THE HARE QUICKLY AND A DOG WITH THE STAMINA TO STAY WITH THE HARE AND CONTROL IT IN A LONG AND PROTRACTED COURSE. THAT IS THE THEORY AND

 

 

SOMETIMES THE FACT. THE SALUKI/GREYHOUND MAY NOT HAVE THE ALL ROUND ABILITY OF THE

 

 

TRADITIONAL LURCHER; WITH THE ODD EXCEPTION HE IS A COURSING DOG PURE AND SIMPLE BUT WHAT A COURSING DOG HE CAN BE.

 

 

 

 

 

GOOD COURSING, WHATEVER TYPE OF DOG YOU USE!

[skycat 6,173]

Very well put! Just about says it all: though I'd add that many really good dogs often have a lot more breeds in them than just Saluki and Greyhound: you only have to look at the Merlin/Eve lines. Supposedly there's Bedlington, Airedale, Collie, Deerhound, Whippet: in fact you name it and it's probably in there. One of my better dogs was mongrelised lurcher to mongrelised lurcher, but bred from good coursing dogs on one side, and a rufty tufty line of who knows what breeding on the dam's side. I saw the great grandmother (and her sister) to one of mine running hares many years ago, and if there was any Saluki in there I'll eat my proverbial hat. Scraggy little rough coated bitches about 22-23 inches: they could catch hares like falling off a log: they made it look so easy. But then again: they did it all the time, lived on the fens and saw more hares than the average rabbiting lurcher would see rabbits in a lifetime.

I've seen them trot out to a hare, and then change course when the hare started running, knowing the lie of the land so well that they knew in any given field which direction the hare was likely to take, and they cut a corner so to speak, long before they were anywhere near the hare. Lovely to watch.

[mC HULL 11,785]

Just wonderd how lurchers faird, before the saluki hybrids came a long?

Was their great lurchers, with famouse names , that took 5 out of 5 ect on the fens in Winter, without saluki in their make up?

in hull before a saluki the best dog in the area was a greyhound called jodie or so am told this was 25 years + then a man called roy mckenzie got a saluki coursed it an it was better than the greyhound he bred am there was suposed to be good dogs but he died 20 years ago but i hear a lot of the salukis today a got is breeding in them

[mC HULL 11,785]

Just wonderd how lurchers faird, before the saluki hybrids came a long?

Was their great lurchers, with famouse names , that took 5 out of 5 ect on the fens in Winter, without saluki in their make up?

in hull before a saluki the best dog in the area was a greyhound called jodie or so am told this was 25 years + then a man called roy mckenzie got a saluki coursed it an it was better than the greyhound he bred am there was suposed to be good dogs but he died 20 years ago but i hear a lot of the salukis today a got is breeding in them

sorry a lot of the saluki greyhounds have got is breeding in them today

[snoopdog 1,256]

top chalker in the 60.s with a few of his dawgs....

 

[baz 463]

is that maggie on the left of the picture.... that picture would have his hairdresser crying

[Meerihunter 7]

IN FACT THE GREYHOUND AND THE SALUKI WERE ORIGINALLY THE SAME ANIMAL. WHY ARE THEY NOW SO VERY DIFFERENT?

 

Recent studies suggest that Greyhounds and Saluki are acually not from the same stock at all.

[Guest Top Chalker]

top chalker in the 60.s with a few of his dawgs....

 

 

 

"During the War " it is me Baz and thats Snoop me bitch standing next to me :kiss: .........before the saluki bred lurchers there was a lot more hares