Recall Training - 10 month old pup

[Andrea 2]

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Edited May 5, 2008 by Andrea

[Guest oneredtrim]

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Edited April 24, 2008 by oneredtrim

[tote 856]

My last question is, why is it that the dog knows what I want it to do yet does not do it (becomes deaf) when certain things happen, and what is it that stops this. i.e why would he come to me and forfeit the chase? It seems to be a willpower issue!?

 

It can turn into a battle of willpower just make sure you have more than the dog.You ask what stops him ignoring your commands? Only you can put a stop to it.First up is to make sure the dogs recall is spot on when there are no distractions,when I say spot on I mean the dog comes back to you the first time you shout for him,not the second or third time,you should be getting an instant reaction from the dog.

 

When you are 100% happy with his recall then and only then you can move on to the next step which is taking him out where there is a distraction.Hopefully it will go without hiccups,if not you could put him on a long lead and give him a jerk when you shout or whistle the command.

 

All this will take time,there are no quick fixes in dog training.Be prepared to do it every day not just 2 or 3 days a week.

 

 

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"When you say to put the dog on the line, would you give the dog a quick 'check' (snap the lead) if he were to ignore my calls or just let him get on with it?

end quote.

 

I would never let any dog ignore my commands,if he realises he can ignore them once he'll think he can ignore them whenever he wants. When a command is given the dog should react immediatley and do as asked.

 

I found Training Spaniels and Gundogs Their Learning Chain by Joe Irving well worth a read,you should be able to get them in any library.Best of luck with the recall training.

[Andrea 2]

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Edited May 5, 2008 by Andrea

[Guest oneredtrim]

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Edited April 24, 2008 by oneredtrim

[kozzi 0]

FOOD FOOD FOOD FOOD FOOD!

It shouldn't be a battle of wills, it should be a case of the dog wants to be with you are you are everything he has. Every time that dog even looks at you now, give him a tit-bit even if it is to beg for food. You are supposed to give him everything he needs, food, shelter, love, protection; nothing else matters now, not even running around and playing with other dogs. That dog must look to you all the time, this is how we train for work, we make the dog totally visual on us all of the time because when he is paying attention to me and looking to me he gets rewarded, sometimes for nothing, so he wants to hang around.

I even look at my hand and my bitch looks at my face expecting to get rewarded, all because I have rewarded her for doing just that, looking at me. The clicker is a marvelous tool, it transformed this bitch I am training for someone totally. She had been trained with negative rienforcement and was not really working well, so to make things clear i used a clicker. There is not confusion with this dog now, its all black and white, just as it should be; do this, you hear this sound, "click", and you get your reward. Don't do as I say, you get told, "no", and then I repeat your command. After a while the dog will quicken its responce to your command as it is eager to hear the click which means a treat, whether its a food or toy item. I have used electrics and they do work, but only if your timing is great and the dog is very hard, as soft dogs can be destryed in moments.

The long line is a great idea to get your pup used to returning when told and to practice the clicker and food reward (you have to get him to recall to you to make it clear to him that it is fun to be near you)

I mainly use a ball which they will happily kill for, so I really can't lose. If you let your dog play with other dogs you are asking for trouble whilst trying to get him loyal to you. They can socialise, but not play; he only plays with daddy and the other family dogs.

[skycat 6,173]

What a lot of people are forgetting is that in training a lurcher//hunting dog, you are, at times, asking the dog to choose between you/initial training and that prey drive which kicks in when the dog puts a rabbit up in front of it.

 

Unless the dog has been conditioned thoroughly and correctly the 'chase the rabbit' option will always win hands down. Even with a well trained dog this often doesn't work if that dog contains a lot of Saluki, for example: their hunting instinct is through the roof and they haven't evolved to take orders all the time, unlike Collies and GSDs which have been developed to obey humans 100% though with no loss of prey drive.

 

I still maintain that the best way to get an instant recall is to take a pup out in the field where it will find stuff: any stuff: birds, mice (oops! sorry, illegal! LOL), rabbits. That's why ferreting is such a productive start for a pup: unless you have absolutely zero rabbits, thus zero reward, the dog learns to come and stay around you and the ferrets. It is in the dog's interests to do this and any lurcher or terrier with half a brain will realise that it is pretty much guaranteed to get its mouth round fur if it comes when you call it and show it a netted rabbit, later on you can bolt them without nets when the pup is big enough to chase and catch.

 

If you don't have ferrets or have access to them then it is down to you to make yourself and what you do a damn sight more exciting than them p*ssing off to do their own thing. You don't have to be a good actor but it helps to be a bit of a drama queen when you hide a furry dummy in the bushes, encourage the pup to find it. Even if the pup doesn't have the faintest idea of what you are on about, if you then go and look for it, encouraging a pup all the way, and then when you find it go all ballistic and excited, throwing it in the air and letting the pup take hold, you are showing the pup what to do.

 

Next time the pup will know what to do: try throwing a furry dummy into the bushes: don't worry if the pup can't find it at first: help it: you are a pack, the both of you, and the sooner the pup realises the benefits of team work the sooner you have a dog that always wants to be with you. When you find the furry dummy the second time, don't pick it up, encourage the pup to pick it up even by kicking it and making it move. Praise and go overboard with congratulations when the pup does pick the dummy up.

 

This is all part of the bonding process: 2 hunters learning how to trust eachother in the field. Once you have that bond you'll never need a food reward or a clicker again.

 

Sorry to ramble on, but this works for me and has done for years. I'm not saying its the only way and if someone else gets on well with other types of training, then as long as it works, that is good.

 

As long as YOU lead the way, and are in control, you will have a partner for life. To any decently bred lurcher or working terrier the most powerful reward is the getting its mouth round fur. Many lurchers are not particularly food orientated, so food rewards go out the window when the real deal running rabbit comes along.

 

Re running up to strange dogs and people: most normal young and teenage pups will do this. This is what I do: I go after the pup, grab it by its collar, tell it off by saying: "No, leave it", but I don't make any big deal of it. I don't want the pup to think it is going to get a thrashing every time it meets a strange dog or person!

 

this behaviour will disappear of its own accord as the dog matures, especially if you get to meet dogs and people on a regular basis. Providing you don't make a big deal of it, but let the dog know that you are not best pleased when it does tear over to someone: also ask anyone that the dog does approach to completely ignore it. Folding the arms and staring at the sky whilst pretending the dog doesn't exist does help to extinguish this behaviour pretty quickly in most cases: the dog doesn't get rewarded for approaching that person, so goes away once it realises its not going to get stroked or whatever.

 

I must admit to not being able to get to grips with the clicker thing: tried it a couple of times but it did feel very artificial to me. My dogs give me eye contact as they come back to me, I reward them with a smile, gentle friendly eye contact and a quick stroke on their head as they move in right next to me. Even the Saluki thing likes that contact: and of course I give him loads of praise when he does come right to me.

[Caravan Monster 323]

After those last three sentences i'm out of this thread, your book reading or your trainer mates have obviouslly not got upto "Context Specific" with regard to WORKING DOGS. Which... if the dog is bred to work you might find at around 8-10 months it completely disregards any "here Rexy" advice cause it's very much conditioned to do stuff at distance from it's handler (long before it met 'em). Good luck Danny!

 

 

This is not meant as a criticism, but where does a beginner start, if not by reading up? I suggested looking at more in depth training books for the very reason that the few I have read, ask the reader to think in greater depth about the type of dog that you are training and what you are training it to do. This has to be more useful than the formulaic set pieces the lurcher manuals tend to offer.

 

I know there are some gifted trainers out there, with an intuitive grasp of dog training, but us lesser mortals need all the help we can get. Particularly with regard to training lurchers, there are not many experienced and skilled trainers about with the time and inclination to help out others. Some years ago, I offered one such handler good money for his time, but he didn' t want to know. That' s fine, but it illustrates the problem- I've had to muddle along and work it out myself.

[Guest oneredtrim]

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Edited April 24, 2008 by oneredtrim

[skycat 6,173]

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I suggested looking at more in depth training books for the very reason that the few I have read, ask the reader to think in greater depth about the type of dog that you are training and what you are training it to do. This has to be more useful than the formulaic set pieces the lurcher manuals tend to offer.

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To me that is the whole point: different types of dog need different approaches to training, and that is the hard part: tailoring the training to suit the dog. Knowing exactly what will work with a certain dog is very difficult, especially with lurchers that may have so many different breeds in them, and particularly those breeds which are very chase orientated.

 

There is a trainer who has helped me a lot: his name is Jim Greenwood, and he's a superb dog man. Here's a link to his website:

http://amarna-letters.co.uk/dogtraining/jjcontactus.html

[Caravan Monster 323]

There is a trainer who has helped me a lot: his name is Jim Greenwood, and he's a superb dog man. Here's a link to his website:

http://amarna-letters.co.uk/dogtraining/jjcontactus.html

 

Thanks skycat, contact noted.