bird 9,932 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 If these cruel buggers wanted to steal your dogs then nothing would stop them, not even a vicious looking guard dog, espcially when you live out in the country. Think about it, all the need is a silenced weapon. I would invest in some other sort of protection, not a dog. Spot on, if you did get one, which want make no differnce to these kind people, you may as well get a shepherd, they are very loud, aggressive, and would scar a opportunist thief. BIRD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kozzi 0 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 The trouble with mastifs in general is they are slow to mature and slow to bite, even though they look scary you will have to do a bit of waiting and plenty of training to get it on the ball. I have Dobermanns and they are pretty slow to mature, they are the only dog bred to defend man and their guard instinct doesn't really appear on its own until 9 to 11 months. the trouble is that most breeds here are not bred for work, they have been pet-afide for the market place, even Rotties and Dobes are rare to find a decent working breeder. Go for a shepherd...they mature quickly, they are good at guarding, they bite quickly and are bidable so this can all be trained quickly. I have a friend who's daughter's 5 month old pup spat out the bite bar I was holding for it and jumped up and bit me in the armpit - it could have simply bitten my fingers but wanted my torso. He has some pups floating about at the moment, i work a few of them at our Shutzhund club, but a few of his are in the met and doing the rounds with some security firms. They also do show work as well. I would recommend Dobes but they need time to mature and are expensive to get the right breeding. Forget the exotic, everyone with any sense knows what a shepherd can do, any trained shepherd will only need a little time to understand the job and once it gets enough bites it will stick to it. PM me if you want any numbers I can get a number for a breeder close to you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 After training various breeds for dogsports, security and manwork I don't think you can beat a GOOD Shepherd or rottie. Trouble is same as any dog they need lots of exercise, stimulation and possibly the most important bit, training. Too many poeple buy a named "breed" and expect it to be Rin tin tins clever brother. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest fence_hopper Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 get a pit mate i locked my self out the other night and when i got over me fence my 5 month old went mad barking like f**k and then attack my leg as soon as my spot light went on and he knew i was me he was ok jumping about getting his ball for me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest WILF Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 I am surprised you say Rottweiler Si?..............would you not consider Dobermans a better option for manwork.........I have some small experience of trainning this breed for that job and also just general trainning..........very responsive. Found they picked up hand signals and stuff very easily............if only my saluki x was as easy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 get a pit mate i locked my self out the other night and when i got over me fence my 5 month old went mad barking like f**k and then attack my leg as soon as my spot light went on and he knew i was me he was ok jumping about getting his ball for me Pits are a banned breed so I'm sure he wouldn't buy one or advertise he had one on a public forum : Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest WILF Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 get a pit mate i locked my self out the other night and when i got over me fence my 5 month old went mad barking like f**k and then attack my leg as soon as my spot light went on and he knew i was me he was ok jumping about getting his ball for me Sounds a good dog ...........lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 I am surprised you say Rottweiler Si?..............would you not consider Dobermans a better option for manwork.........I have some small experience of trainning this breed for that job and also just general trainning..........very responsive.Found they picked up hand signals and stuff very easily............if only my saluki x was as easy. Rotties, usually the dogs are tough, bite like hell and are slightly more laid back than some other breeds. The only downside is the same with any breed, getting a good 'un. They can also be stubborn buggers I've only trained a handfull of Dobes and getting a good one is like rocking horse poo, a friend had one that was driven by defence,aplly pressure and the dog would look good and bite (anywhere) but ask the dog to use some prey drive and work away from the handler and its confidence took a nosedive. I've trained dozens and dozens of security, service, sport and protection dogs yet I can count on two hands the truely good dogs who could do the job for real and I'm fortunate to own one. Far too many people expect to by a "breed" and for the dog to become a natural protector, this hardly ever happens and the dogs need hundreds of hours of training. My old boy has an excellent temperament around strangers, my kids, dogs, livestock and yet I know he can do the job for real without sticks, sleeves, wind up etc............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 get a pit mate i locked my self out the other night and when i got over me fence my 5 month old went mad barking like f**k and then attack my leg as soon as my spot light went on and he knew i was me he was ok jumping about getting his ball for me Sounds a good dog ...........lol I'd give him some vics sinex as I'd wan't my dog to be able to smell me before eating me as I enter the garden LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest WILF Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 I am surprised you say Rottweiler Si?..............would you not consider Dobermans a better option for manwork.........I have some small experience of trainning this breed for that job and also just general trainning..........very responsive.Found they picked up hand signals and stuff very easily............if only my saluki x was as easy. Rotties, usually the dogs are tough, bite like hell and are slightly more laid back than some other breeds. The only downside is the same with any breed, getting a good 'un. They can also be stubborn buggers I've only trained a handfull of Dobes and getting a good one is like rocking horse poo, a friend had one that was driven by defence,aplly pressure and the dog would look good and bite (anywhere) but ask the dog to use some prey drive and work away from the handler and its confidence took a nosedive. I've trained dozens and dozens of security, service, sport and protection dogs yet I can count on two hands the truely good dogs who could do the job for real and I'm fortunate to own one. Far too many people expect to by a "breed" and for the dog to become a natural protector, this hardly ever happens and the dogs need hundreds of hours of training. My old boy has an excellent temperament around strangers, my kids, dogs, livestock and yet I know he can do the job for real without sticks, sleeves, wind up etc............. Very good post mate..............I knew of 2 Dobes that would wait for the owner to return home from work and if he did not give them a treat withing 5 minute of opening the door, they would attack him!! I found they tended to be a one person animal rather than more social, which to a professional dog trainer is most likely a major failing..............and I can see why. The 2 in the story above had bonded with each other I think.........my old dog (german/dutch bred) bonded with my mum, my old black/tan bitch bonded with me, man I could make that dog do anything, but that was when I was a kid with nothing more to do than mess about with the dog all day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Very good post mate..............I knew of 2 Dobes that would wait for the owner to return home from work and if he did not give them a treat withing 5 minute of opening the door, they would attack him!! I found they tended to be a one person animal rather than more social, which to a professional dog trainer is most likely a major failing..............and I can see why. The 2 in the story above had bonded with each other I think.........my old dog (german/dutch bred) bonded with my mum, my old black/tan bitch bonded with me, man I could make that dog do anything, but that was when I was a kid with nothing more to do than mess about with the dog all day. I must admit, I have a five minute rule when I get home and demand to be fed I have worked with a few dogs that have been handler aggessive and witnessed a few bites and had a couple myself which gives you a lot of respect for how much it hurts Dobes, Rotties and Shepherds are all better from Europe, more emphasis is placed on ability rather than mincing around a showring. My mentor had amazing success with his dogs (Film, competion and security) by crossing a good Border collie with a imported Shepherd. His dogs had hybrid vigour and were by far the best dogs I've seen, he has done this mating a few times and the litters are always superb....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest WILF Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 The German/Dutch did have a much better body frame, make the UK equivelent look rather weedy and inbred by comparison mate. They were liver, but would now be chocolate.............lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 They were liver, but would now be chocolate.............lol Kerching££££££££ My mates is a liver Dobe. Seems to be a more popular colour in the Dobes that work!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ocs1867 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Bad think is with Akitas they have a tendancy to roam and they are aggresive with other dogs which it would be guarding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Simoman 110 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Bad think is with Akitas they have a tendancy to roam and they are aggresive with other dogs which it would be guarding. I'm sure there are some good ones but all the ones I've come across have been fairly horrible creatures.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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