Here's A Picture

[RatSnatcher 0]

Ditch this thread should of been put in general talk as well mate.......

 

 

 

Quoted from the link.....

In fact, in 2005, PETA killed 90 percent of the animals turned over to it despite an organizational budget of $25 million a year.

 

$25 million sure buy's a lot of euthanasia

[Guest WILF]

Ye know, Wilf; I looked in here and found only your response. I was about to ask ye, as I was asking myself; Why is this? A forum with certainly hundreds, if not the odd thousand, or people with Dogs. And yet it's really getting to seem like a private conversation between us two. We'd may as well be sat at a bar.

 

Then it struck me why this is. Because I started it in here. " Working Dog Health & Training Talk ". I guess that, in itself, says a lot about too many of the others. They're just too busy beating their chests and slapping up their " Pre Ban " kill photo's with their recently announced latest aquisitions that they really have no time or interest for mundane, 'un macho' shit like Training their Dogs.

 

I allways have a look in here DS, the canine mind interests me as much as anything else..........my dogs have learned me much more that I will ever teach them.......and its an ongoing process.

 

And, if it's health fails? F*ck it. They know plenty cheaper ways of getting a Dog to be out with tomorrow night that bothering with vet's. A new Dog's much cheaper than fixing the last one. Remember too that I'm actually just repeating what I hear from these Modern " Hunters " themselves. I've spent months and months having to monitor their talk in Chat. Frankly? I couldn't make up half the shit I hear in there. I haven't got that much imagination.

 

Some folk will do allmost anything for thier hound and some wont spare the hound the price of a packet of fags.........a sad fact

 

I; " talk as though it is simply a question of selecting the right mix of dog for its prospective owner and as long as that is correct, its job done. "

 

No, ye misunderstood what I was trying to say. What I meant was that one can't (or shouldn't) go picking a " Beddi Whippet " if one has dreams of The Fen's. Horses for courses. To put it another way; 'A man's got to know his Dogs limitations.'

 

Unfortunately, it happens.........I have certainly done it..........its what you do about it that makes the difference.

Myself, I was lucky and found a very good home for a dog that was not upto what I wanted it to do...........and all it cost me was a 700 mile drive.

I didnt want money, why would I?, I didnt want the cost of the diesel........I just wanted the dog to be right because I didnt want it to be a victim of ME.

Failing that, I would have lived with my mistake..........BUT ONLY because it was a lovely animal.

Now some dogs, you just cant get on with, you try to love them.......you want to, but you cant...........no ones fault.

In this circumstance, if you cant get the RIGHT home, then a bullet or a jab is as kind as you can get.......JMHO

 

 

And that brings us to two slightly similar points, divergent as they stem from that one; In no particular order then, let's say " Jibbers ". I genuinely heard one guy nonchallantly inform one of his cronies that a certain Dog " Didn't come home " one night, because it had 'Jibbed' on its FITH fox in a row.

 

Some fellas just have different standards and untill you know a fella personally its hard to judge him.......

 

Now, where the hell's the thinking there? Do you see through that shit? I can't. As a comparison; I've heard - in my time - a conversation that went very much along these lines:

 

" My Dog stayed to a badger / Well, MY Dog stayed Longer! / Ah, but was Your badger 'Experienced'? / I'd say my badger had seen a Dog before, sure! / Oh yeah? Well; How d'ye reckon Your Dog would hold up if he had TWO Experienced badgers to contend with, at the same time? I bet he'd prove a jibber! " I mean, jesus sake, Wilf; Can you fathom That f*cking mentality???

 

Lots of arse talkers in the world........you know that as well as me

 

 

 

As I've already said, above; It's the f*cking DOG that's the 'Hunter'. I grew up learning to Revere a good Dog. To admire what it could do. But now? Far and away too many of these kids seem to think what ever their mates Dog, or the Dog down the road, or some f*cking mythical beast they heard about in an internet Chat Room or forum Must be beaten - by Their latest Dog. And, if he doesn't do it right fresh out of the pokey kennel they just bought it out of, on the way home? That 'Useless piece of shit jibber' ain't going home. How the F*ck has this come about???

 

 

Now to the other sub thread that stems from the 'horses for courses' thing; Time was - definately in my time - when a man decided what path he felt drawn to follow. Be it Ferreter. Moucher. Hare Courser or Deer Poacher. And he got the type of Dog best suited to his game. Only - and here's the Earth Shattering bit; He'd choose a pup and then Live With that awkward, gangly little shit stick - most often inside his home, with him, incidentally - and would try to show it and teach it everything he knew how.

 

Those Dogs got to take on much of the character of their owners. It was That close a bond. The guys loved their Dogs and the Dogs would do their uttmost for them. And most of those Dogs were kept by casual, even if somewhat habitual, poachers. What we now call 'Mouchers'. All that was expected of them was to catch what ever they were sent after. And no one sent their Beddie Whippet after Fallow. No one demanded twice as many foxes as last night. Lurkers were bought between groups of friends who knew who, in the neighbourhood, was breeding his Local Hero of a Dog to another, known, mans Notorious Bitch. Some pups turned out better than others, naturally. Some guys got to be smugger than others. Of course. But; The " Dog Men " came to the surface.

 

Why? Because they were the guys who could make a silk purse out of another mans 'sows ear'.

 

 

I'll leave it there, mate. For now. Late enough and I'm relaxing with some Jameson's and cruising at just the right altitude just now. I don't want to lapse into 'Burble' mode!

 

I will say; It's sad that there's so little meaningful input coming into this Thread from the Forum. But maybe that's ok as it is? Over a Thousand look ins? The buggers are reading it. Good. They're paying attention and keeping the barracking out of it? That's nice. This way those with something to say can say it, without this being twisted into a testosterone drenched, teenage shit fest

 

Are you surprised?................

[Bosun11 537]

Ye know, Wilf; I looked in here and found only your response. I was about to ask ye, as I was asking myself; Why is this? A forum with certainly hundreds, if not the odd thousand, or people with Dogs. And yet it's really getting to seem like a private conversation between us two. We'd may as well be sat at a bar.

 

Then it struck me why this is. Because I started it in here. " Working Dog Health & Training Talk ". I guess that, in itself, says a lot about too many of the others. They're just too busy beating their chests and slapping up their " Pre Ban " kill photo's with their recently announced latest aquisitions that they really have no time or interest for mundane, 'un macho' shit like Training their Dogs.

 

And, if it's health fails? F*ck it. They know plenty cheaper ways of getting a Dog to be out with tomorrow night that bothering with vet's. A new Dog's much cheaper than fixing the last one. Remember too that I'm actually just repeating what I hear from these Modern " Hunters " themselves. I've spent months and months having to monitor their talk in Chat. Frankly? I couldn't make up half the shit I hear in there. I haven't got that much imagination.

 

I; " talk as though it is simply a question of selecting the right mix of dog for its prospective owner and as long as that is correct, its job done. "

 

No, ye misunderstood what I was trying to say. What I meant was that one can't (or shouldn't) go picking a " Beddi Whippet " if one has dreams of The Fen's. Horses for courses. To put it another way; 'A man's got to know his Dogs limitations.'

 

And that brings us to two slightly similar points, divergent as they stem from that one; In no particular order then, let's say " Jibbers ". I genuinely heard one guy nonchallantly inform one of his cronies that a certain Dog " Didn't come home " one night, because it had 'Jibbed' on its FITH fox in a row.

 

Now, where the hell's the thinking there? Do you see through that shit? I can't. As a comparison; I've heard - in my time - a conversation that went very much along these lines:

 

" My Dog stayed to a badger / Well, MY Dog stayed Longer! / Ah, but was Your badger 'Experienced'? / I'd say my badger had seen a Dog before, sure! / Oh yeah? Well; How d'ye reckon Your Dog would hold up if he had TWO Experienced badgers to contend with, at the same time? I bet he'd prove a jibber! " I mean, jesus sake, Wilf; Can you fathom That f*cking mentality???

 

As I've already said, above; It's the f*cking DOG that's the 'Hunter'. I grew up learning to Revere a good Dog. To admire what it could do. But now? Far and away too many of these kids seem to think what ever their mates Dog, or the Dog down the road, or some f*cking mythical beast they heard about in an internet Chat Room or forum Must be beaten - by Their latest Dog. And, if he doesn't do it right fresh out of the pokey kennel they just bought it out of, on the way home? That 'Useless piece of shit jibber' ain't going home. How the F*ck has this come about???

 

 

Now to the other sub thread that stems from the 'horses for courses' thing; Time was - definately in my time - when a man decided what path he felt drawn to follow. Be it Ferreter. Moucher. Hare Courser or Deer Poacher. And he got the type of Dog best suited to his game. Only - and here's the Earth Shattering bit; He'd choose a pup and then Live With that awkward, gangly little shit stick - most often inside his home, with him, incidentally - and would try to show it and teach it everything he knew how.

 

Those Dogs got to take on much of the character of their owners. It was That close a bond. The guys loved their Dogs and the Dogs would do their uttmost for them. And most of those Dogs were kept by casual, even if somewhat habitual, poachers. What we now call 'Mouchers'. All that was expected of them was to catch what ever they were sent after. And no one sent their Beddie Whippet after Fallow. No one demanded twice as many foxes as last night. Lurkers were bought between groups of friends who knew who, in the neighbourhood, was breeding his Local Hero of a Dog to another, known, mans Notorious Bitch. Some pups turned out better than others, naturally. Some guys got to be smugger than others. Of course. But; The " Dog Men " came to the surface.

 

Why? Because they were the guys who could make a silk purse out of another mans 'sows ear'.

 

I'll leave it there, mate. For now. Late enough and I'm relaxing with some Jameson's and cruising at just the right altitude just now. I don't want to lapse into 'Burble' mode!

 

I will say; It's sad that there's so little meaningful input coming into this Thread from the Forum. But maybe that's ok as it is? Over a Thousand look ins? The buggers are reading it. Good. They're paying attention and keeping the barracking out of it? That's nice. This way those with something to say can say it, without this being twisted into a testosterone drenched, teenage shit fest

 

 

I have read and re-read this post (and its link) and in my opinion is one of the best on this forum in recent months.

Ditch as ever giving great 'food for thought'....... I'm near choked!

Blue Coyote with some great responce and Wilf as ever..... almost painfully honest (i was gonna put frank but thats m.r.1's alias!).

I wish I could contribute but I can't improve on whats been written by each and everyone.

This is more of a 'bump' than a post......

Though if anything, I thought your last post Ditch was 'on the mark' concerning the current climate. A subject I chatted to StrongStuff about only last week.

 

Thanks

[cúagusgiorraí 57]

I agree that Ditch's post was excellent.

At least there is someone out there thinking the same thing as meself.

[Caravan Monster 323]

One thing that has struck me when thinking about this thread is that dog owners need to be encouraged to think more clearly about WHY they would like to keep dogs. Not just hunting folk either- all too often pet owners seem to take on what becomes a chore to them- I can think of several examples who proudly proclaim 'we make the effort to get our dogs out twice a day' - well if its an effort, then why create the task in the first place? Watch them march round the exact same route morning and evening, every day, most direct line gate to gate, getting angry if the dog dares follow a scent in another direction, or lingers over a mark in the hedge. Happy to get home, so that they can get on with what they want to do. Where' s the enjoyment in that?

 

Amongst the hunting fraternity, there seems to be a lot of people who just emulate those around them in their activities. I know there are a few around who do genuinely do a lot , working their dogs very hard, and can justify keeping a kennel of several dogs, which will be gainfully employed throughout the season. Not many lurcher keepers are in this happy position of being able to get out so much- life gets in the way- work, family and other commitments rightly take a lot of time. Why if you are in this position, do you need to have a dog at the height of its lamping abilities every season, just to run a few hours, maybe one or two nights a week? As the physical and mental powers of the dog wax and wane throughout its life, think about it and adapt hunting methods. That way, the dog keeps working, and dog and owner can keep on acheiving the high of succeeding and improving their working partnership. Isn' t that succes the real buzz of working your dogs?

 

As Ditch describes above, the vicous circle that feeds the RSPCA kill 'shelters' is fed by dogs being undervalued and moved on at such a rate. If more people honestly thought out what they wanted from their dogs before buying them and if that dog could actually acheive that ideal, demand for more dogs could drop, decreasing the number of dogs in the vicous circle feeding the RSPCA death machine. If someone is looking for a new dog 'cos my mate' s got one' or 'I liked the look of one' - that' s not good enough- FFS slow down and think it over.

[Guest WILF]

........Excellent post!

[Andrea 2]

As Ditch describes above, the vicous circle that feeds the RSPCA kill 'shelters' is fed by dogs being undervalued and moved on at such a rate. If more people honestly thought out what they wanted from their dogs before buying them and if that dog could actually acheive that ideal, demand for more dogs could drop, decreasing the number of dogs in the vicous circle feeding the RSPCA death machine. If someone is looking for a new dog 'cos my mate' s got one' or 'I liked the look of one' - that' s not good enough- FFS slow down and think it over.

 

Great post, and so very true particularly in regards to pet owners (clowns).

My biggest issue is in regards to some folk who, after having a dog for a few weeks (or month’s) decided it’s not going to make the grade. Yes, this happens now and again but i believe most working line dogs are capable of being good hard workers. It can take a bit more time with some than other's, but i believe 90% of a dog’s failures are down to its handlers inadequacy as a trainer. So the next time someone feels like putting a bullet in the head of a dog because it’s not made the grade, put that bullet in your own head because ultimately, as a trainer, it’s you that’s not made the grade.

IMPO, a dog is only as good as the person handling it.

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

"If you stay with a dog and give it experience, in the end it will probably do the same for you. Nothing fails a dog more than a human that will quit on it."

 

 

Patrick Burns. Dec,24,2006.

 

 

 

I'm deliberately staying out of this for a day or three because it had become, as said, like Wilf and I chatting alone, together at a bar. It was in danger of us two strolling down the road together, rounding off our chat before bidding each other good night and going our seperate ways home.

 

Now let's try to get it back into the pub, only see who else joins in. Enough meat and bone up there to feed a pack of Dogs for a long time yet. Let's hope for a bit more 'outside' input yet

[TOPPER 1,809]

i see in the paper today those lying baskets at aspca got to hold on to the horses and donkeys they stole even though the court had ordered there return to the owner now there going back to court and trying to buy there way i hope the owner got deep pockets or better still set up as a welfare charity money no object

[Guest BIG FRANK]

To put it another way, the "humane" industry, which vociferously opposes hunting of deer for meat, actually kills more dogs and cats than hunters shoot deer.

 

Have you ever noticed that PETA is always there to throw blood on people wearing fur coats, but that they never protest in front of kill shelters?

 

A friend of mine who used to be a shelter worker explained it to me. "PETA would never show up at a kill shelter," she explained, "because if they did, the workers there would bring out all the dogs and and cats, turn over the leashes and say, 'Here, they're all yours now.'"

 

It's an amusing picture, but it's not quite true. You see, PETA does not protest at kill shelters because it supports the killing of dogs and cats in shelters, and it does almost nothing to try to get dogs and cats adopted out.

WHAT ALOAD OF WANKERS THESE GUYS REALY ARE SHAME ON EM.................AND YET WE GET SHIT :no:GREAT POST MATE!!!LOVE THE FEEDBACKS TO.

Edited April 15, 2008 by BIG FRANK

[stone-cold 0]

well im shocked at what i read but not surprised,people need to think and think hard before buying a dog,alot of idiots go out buy a big'un like a rottweiler then 6 months down the line realise they cant handle it so where does it end up?one of these shelters more than likely.

i know of people who do this all the time,get a dog love it at first then you see them few months later walking a different dog,i dont even bother to ask what happened to there old one

 

ive never given up on a dog,it would be like giving up on my own children,my current dog(part collie,part german shephard and part black lab)is a fine gun dog,yes hes a strange breed,he looks good and is very intelligent and hes fine by me and will hopefully live a long life by my side.

 

breeders are a big problem,alot are only in it for the money and dont care what happens to the dogs they've bred once the cash is in there hands,i know of a couple in my area that breed staffy's,use the same bitch all year round,the bitch is locked in a kennel all the time having i dont know many pups a year,no life for a dog,there in it for the money and alot of staffy's end up in shelters.

 

i have read the link,i am now very tired and i cant think of what else to say and probably should have waited till the morning to do this,this is an interesting thread well done d.s,good input wilf,lets have more like these,

 

and to anyone sneering at my dog

[skycat 6,173]

I've only just read this thread all the way through, and for what it's worth, I do think a lot of the problem with the lurchers is that they are so easy and CHEAP to get hold of. I know that's not the only problem, but it does seem to be a bit like the cheap ferret syndrome: I could never understand how an animal that could potentially supply you with more rabbits than you could ever want over a number of years, AND take up very little time and money in the keeping and housing of it, could possible be sold for only a couple of quid. And in the worst case scenario be knocked on the head at the end of the season only to be replaced by another the following autumn.

Have to say I've heard of certain (and I won't dignify them with the name 'human') cretins who have done the same with dogs.

 

Come to think of it, the things I value most highly have very little monetary value in today's world! So is this what it's all about?

 

DS or Wilf said in one post that your dog became your mate, friend etc and no way could you ever part etc etc. But isn't that just like a marriage today? Most people don't stick at ANYTHING any more: get a glitch, have a problem.............dump the bitch (or dog.........canine or human!) and get another. Easy come easy go. No need to put something old fashioned called WORK into the relationship.

OK, not everything works out for everyone and sometimes you need to accept that some things just aren't meant to be: no point sticking with a person or dog if you are painfully incompatible, but you get my drift generally speaking.

I'm no socialogist but I do blame the breakdown of 'family' for most of today's problems with off the rails kids and dog dumping/impulse buying of dogs etc etc.

 

What I don't understand is WHY our society has come to this! Anyone care to enlighten me. I'm too old to try and change things: I'll just sit it out in my little corner of dogdom and hunting until the sky calls me on to the next chapter.

[skycat 6,173]

SW; As far as I'm aware, it'd be the Arsepca Death Camps where the vast majority of Dogs in uk are killed off. Councils tend to leave it to them. I believe Battersea has it's own set up. What may go on at the hands of vets, at the behest of private Rescues, I have no idea. But it'd be the wholesale slaughter being undertaken by the Arsepca which will have PETA clapping their hands in glee.

 

Of course, the Arsepca are very fond of figures. They use the number of kills they produce to generate more money for themselves and thus like to brandish those figures. Swift poke around Google should come up with some. I have a file on here somewhere detailing what they do with some of their annual millions. Rushing through here just yet, but I'll take a look at that later today.

 

Just to add to this: I actually worked for an animal shelter many years ago; I left when they said I had to choose between hunting and working there: they found out I went ferreting etc!

I shall never forget the time they destroyed a perfectly healthy litter of cross breed pups whilst spending hours of expensive surgery time and 2 vets to try and save the sight of a manky 13 year old Yorkshire Terrier. When I asked why I was told that they would be able to rehome the Yorkie to a little old lady with loads of dosh who would then leave it to them in her will!! I kid you not!

This was Wood Green ANimal Shelter in Cambridgeshire. To my knowledge they have never had to publish figures of the numbers of animals destroyed under their care.

[stone-cold 0]

skycat.the difference between your dog and your girlfriend/wife is that your dog cant speak and is forever loyal and loving,its there nature.

anyone who gets shot of there dog without a damn good reason should be banned from getting another.

i can understand up to a point the man who works a dog for a living doing it,but then again a man who works dogs for a living should know what hes doing,what dog he needs and how to train them so i dont normally here of dogs like this ending up in any shelter or being shot for being no good

cant see much changing in the not so distant future but something obviously needs to be done on this subject,that link got to me a little and i come to this conclusion.IF ONLY HUMANS WERE AS LOYAL TO THERE DOGS AS THERE DOGS ARE UNTO THEM

[Caravan Monster 323]

When the hunting debate was taking place in Parliament and the media prior to the ban, why were the RSPCA' s kill shelters not exposed in the general media? I notice the RSPCA has managed to get more than one series on terrestrial TV, showing its brave officers going about their heroic deeds, with a particular emphasis on presenting their organisation as the enforcement body it would like to be. Why were no efforts made to counter this sort of PR?

 

Surely portraying the RSPCA as a financial and political organisation, not all that interested in animal welfare, would have been very relevant to the hunting debate- showing that the ban was not motivated by animal welfare concerns, but financial and political objectives. After all, it must have been the RSPCA that bankrolled the whole effort, putting up the money to persuade the labour party to spend all those hours in Parliament, and eventually mis- use legislation to force the ban through. I can' t imagine those souless ghouls at the LACS, that kept showing up on the TV, having too much political or financial clout.

 

This country is kidding itself about animal welfare, whether it be hunting, farming or the pet industry. People need exposing to the truth, and to stop believing that all is well.

 

The hunting community is not without fault, and needs to do something about the current trend, as described in this thread, of seeing our dogs and ferrets as throwaway 'tools'. We are in the position to give our animals the best lives of all because we recognise them for what they truly are- the real hunters. In return for the times they give us, they require respectful and decent treatment.