Plummer terriers

[CumbrianJack 2]

Yes ThursoJack, its me! :11: Good to see you on here asking for sound advice.

[Guest Sumo]

Why does it always have to come to this

Right, can I put a few comments.

Firstly Tim. Regarding dropping the affixes from a dogs name. Why, whats in a name? Surely you must have sold two dogs from the same litter, say two collared bitches, and both owners decide to call there dogs, say, Rose. Now you would have two bitches from the same breeding, born on the same day, with the same name, Legion Rose. Now I dont know about you but the system I use wont allow two dogs with the same name, hence we ask owners to think of a kennel name. Whats so wrong with that?

Nuv, as with newspapers, dont believe everything you see or read. It may not be true

And back to Tim, and I can be definate on this one. You say that in the 2005 yearbook the PTA openly admit they are having problems getting the size down! No we didn't. I stated in an article that I had bred a litter and the dogs had become a bit large at 14-15". Thats just me, nothing to do with the rest of the club, so why write as if it were a problem with the whole club.

Its easy to come on to sites and slag an individual or organisation off when many of the readers have no idea about the situations involved, but what does it prove?

You do what you want to do, and we will do what we want to do

[Nipper 0]

Why should the PTA allow dogs not registered with them to be shown in their classes? Of course the PTCGB welcomes PTA regsitered stock as they only formed in order so that they could regsiter their bull-blooded plummers.

 

I think dog clubs are the kiss of death for working dogs and only serve a purpose for individuals flirting with the idea of hunting with dogs.

[Guest tim]

You do what you want to do, and we will do what we want to do

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And just what good is that for the breed? the breed must move on as a whole, not fragmented, dogs that are bred, must be registered by their owners and the name given is what the dog takes with him for the rest of his/her life, its wrong to change prefix's, although I note you are now giving back dogs their real identity - lets take wyremead eire as an example, who was wyremead eire ?, she is really rosegarrow eire, welsby didnt breed her, but he showed and won with her - claiming glory for something he didnt breed , by using his own prefix, now I note you have given her back her real name - rosegarrow eire and stuck at wyremead on the end of its name - wrong wrong wrong!! The same goes for many other pta dogs including proteus- Brian bred him not welsby - how many pedigrees do these dogs appear in with their wrong names? is this a true and accurate account - I think not!

 

Shows must be open for the good of the public, so they can get a true view of what dogs are available, not restricted to the pta's chosen few, with no ptcgb members - how childish is that?

Communication between various clubs is vital for the dogs future, and it is about the dogs not about a few individuals wanting a little bit of glory .............................saying that you lot wont communicate or cooperate , whys that then?

[Guest baldie]

The best thing that could happen, to the plummer terrier, would be a breed name change, say to a "red russel" then perhaps people would start to take them seriously. While ever they bear that mans name, it wont happen. No, i dont own one, but i like the dogs, and maybe one day would.

[Guest tim]

Why should the PTA allow dogs not registered with them to be shown in their classes? Of course the PTCGB welcomes PTA regsitered stock as they only formed in order so that they could regsiter their bull-blooded plummers.

 

 

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Wrong the PTCGB started when the pta kicked brian plummer out for introducing new blood into a gene pool that needed it, they wouldnt listen back then in 1997/8 a mere 3 yrs after the pta was set up, Brian had no option but to go it alone, when they sought to destroy all his work. The PTCGB was set up to be , and is , open to all, the dogs are for everyone who is interested in them and the club is for them to get open and honest information and assistance, cliques are for self gratification and backpatters, we dont have time for that in the PTCGB - the dogs and the future are too important -

[Guest Sumo]

Tim, I can see we are not going to agree on this, and as I am (to the best of my knowledge) the only committee member from the PTA on this site, then I feel I cannot go into club policies with you, nor should I on a public forum.

I am still smiling over your 'wrong, wrong, wrong' about the use of affixes as I cannot see how or why you would object to this as it would make the recognition of animals a nightmare, but if you are happy not using it then that is your choice. We are so we will carry on using it.

Also, how you can say a Plummer is a Plummer, is a Plummer etc truely astonished me Does that mean that every Border Collie, Greyhound, GSP behaves in execkly the same way as another of the breed? Of course they dont. In every breed you will have dogs that behave differently and if it is deemed a good quality then it progresses. I myself have owned a Plummer that showed no inclination to go to ground. I also own four that will go to ground when something is at home. So which type is the Plummer, is the Plummer, is the Plummer?

For the last time, Brian was not chucked out of the PTA, he became interested in the recreation of the Lucas so had no time for the club.

Also your dates are wrong concerning the club being 'told' about the bull crosses. How do I know, well I was there when we were informed that Brian had bred a litter and that they would be introduced into the gene pool. As I remember you were not there! We did not poo poo the idea straight away but no information was forthcoming about the line of bull terrier used so we did not feel it was appropriate at the time to add new blood. And were we correct, well we may never know. However when a pedigree contains simply 'bull terrier, sire bull terrier, dam bull terrier, where is the knowledge of the bull used? So tell us Tim, what was the dog like, how was it bred, what is the line like, how big do they get, what are the mouths like? These were questions that we asked but the answer was, 'the people that breed these dogs dont keep pedigrees, they just breed the gamest to the gamest'. Bollocks. Pedigrees are always there, but maybe Brian did not want people to find out what he had used. Again we will probably never know. I know who's dog he used Tim but its information about the line that you need, good points and bad, else you will never know what your dogs are going to produce.

This is not having a go at you personally, but you seem very quick to jump on the PTA for 'all the bad things we do', but I feel, like you say, 'for the good of the public' people need to know whats going on.

I honestly wish you well with your project, I told Brian this the last time I met him, and I sincerely do. However, it is when you have a go at us, we then have a go at you, and the public sit back and think 'what the f**k has this got to do with working dogs'? Absolutely nothing. So cant we drop it now, else we will have more Plummer haters out there.

All the best

(ps. my fingers are hurting )

[Nipper 0]

Tim, you paint your picture of history as you see fit and I hope you find somewhere nice to hang it!!

 

The PTCGB began when DBP couldn't bullshit the PTA into another hare-brained scheme and he needed some new sycophants.

 

Baldie - a good idea. Anybody got any decent red russells? :11:

[Foxgun Tom 75]

Tim, you paint your picture of history as you see fit and I hope you find somewhere nice to hang it!!

 

The PTCGB began when DBP couldn't bullshit the PTA into another hare-brained scheme and he needed some new sycophants.

 

Baldie - a good idea. Anybody got any decent red russells? :11:

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Tim!! remember who said this?? when I asked some questions about the breed founder, (flame threads, Dec 8 2005) quote: "sick to the backteeth of things Plummer related being gone over and over again", signed Tim, :end quote. Well you certainly went over a few things here :11: :11: :11:

 

Tom

 

Ps: as long as your dogs do!!! what you!!! the owner wants?? the breed or type is immaterial to anyone else?? unless they want a pup off your lines

 

Tom

[Guest tim]

Tim, you paint your picture of history as you see fit and I hope you find somewhere nice to hang it!!

 

The PTCGB began when DBP couldn't bullshit the PTA into another hare-brained scheme and he needed some new sycophants.

 

Baldie - a good idea. Anybody got any decent red russells? :11:

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Tim!! remember who said this?? when I asked some questions about the breed founder, (flame threads, Dec 8 2005) quote: "sick to the backteeth of things Plummer related being gone over and over again", signed Tim, :end quote. Well you certainly went over a few things here :11: :11: :11:

 

Tom

 

Ps: as long as your dogs do!!! what you!!! the owner wants?? the breed or type is immaterial to anyone else?? unless they want a pup off your lines

 

Tom

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Dont rightly recollect rattling your cage, or asking your opinion, but hey, quick to jump in - and what! no can.anyway I'll ignore you.

 

Well said sumo, I applaude your loyalty, I also applaud your hard working committee, for getting up off their backsides and doing something But when it travels almost paralell to the PTCGB, dont you think the above questions do need answering, and to anyone who wants to hear, I say now as I always have, the clubs need to thrash this out once and for all , then work for the future and good of the breed as a whole. Then maybe the past can become the past and we will all have a future.

 

I have no problems revealing the progress or history of the outcross programme, the disasters and the sucesses. I will tell all I know about the blood introduced, indeed I plan to bring Ni9e to the Midland next year, and some other new generation stock also my pure lines, I do hope you will come and visit the stand , you might find it interesting - Gareth is organising a hog roast saturday evening maybe your club members would like to join us.

 

there an olive branch, will you pick it up, and lets stop this once and for all?

[Nipper 0]

Tim - it's an open forum... If it was a private discussion then use the PM facility...

[Foxgun Tom 75]

Tim!! I don't have a cage to rattle and as I've said many times before I don't have a problem with Plummer Terriers or their owners. despite the misconceptions you obviously hold about me?? I can and do appriciate all working breeds or types and am not prone to kennel blindness, and think that one breed or type is above all others. I'm a working and hunting dog enthusiast , who does'nt differentiate, full stop!!!!!!!!!!

 

Tom

[Guest Sumo]

It had better be a bloody big pig if I'm there

Seriously though, I play a lot of cricket in the summer so dont know if I'll have that weekend off, depends who we are playing.

I'll happily chat to you if I am there, no problem at all. However, it will be my opinion verses yours, but it will still kill a few hours I would have thought

We wont be wanting to introduce your outcross blood into our genepool, as we still feel we are ok breeding with the dogs we have. The genetic faults are being reduced year in year out, we still get about one a year, but nobody is perfect. It is the unknown that puts me off concerning the outcrosses. I cant help the way I feel, nor can you for wanting to push what you feel is a worthwhile project. As we know owning Plummers is not easy, the amount of grief I still get from people locally to me saying I should get myself a good russell, lakey etc just makes me want to breed and work better dogs than them. You have got to be committed, and hopefully we both are, but on seperate things. Admittedly not a million miles different from each other but enough for people to make a choice for themselves.

If at some point in the future it is in the breeds interest to introduce new blood then we shall discuss it amoungst ourselves and then the members, before going into everything in detail. However, hopefully this time will not come. We are happy with the dogs that are being produced at this time. Admittedly some are better than others, mistakes are still made, but it is a learning process for all. We have a good few committed owners and breeders that are interested in progressing the breed, as apposed to making a quick buck, and it may be a slower way of doing it, but as long as we give the dogs time to develop, seeing how they turn out, before breeding then things will go well.

We have a few amoungst us that will still work our dogs to the full, testing as best we can and only breeding from those worthy. We may pass over animals that will be perfectly good for someone else, but as long as a person has the choice to keep and breed a certain animal, then I will help all I can with the selection of studs etc.

I am here for the breed, well for the pure breed. I like these dogs, I cant help it that I dont like your outcrosses. Nothing against them, they are just not for me. They may be superior to ours, they may work better, they may look better, I dont know, whatever the situation it does not matter.

So, as for taking the olive branch, I cant say. I am one within the club. I cannot say yes or no. Will I talk to you if I see you, yes of course. I have hopefully been dragged up proper Will I be putting forward a motion to start talks with your club then Im sorry but the answer is no. No offence meant, but as I say, at this time we feel we are doing a good enough job as we are. If it aint broke, dont fix it. That is not to say never say never, but hopefully that is a long way off.

All the best

[tinytiger 822]

About 2 years back i bred a plummer bitch(who was out of a plummer bitch from legion sired by nine) to an american pitbull terrier.Two of the pups were rednosed yellow/green eyes.this colour is recessive>>>2 explanations A: Brian added apbt or "irish" staff blood

 

B:the colouring came from chocolate fell back the way

 

The father of my original plummer bitch was tricoloured and was bred by a Mr johnson or johnston in wales.

She was definitely the best worker ive seen of any terrier(and i rarely hunt rats or rabbits).

 

Ive heard over here in ireland ,that a lot of them wont work,,Maybe theres some bad lines here but i had no probs with mine,

 

I bred her to a full plummer as well and the pup i kept was a little slow to start(c.18 months) but took off after that.

[dazbo 15]

omega is one of the worst books i have ever read regarding working dogs

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Did you thinks so? i quite enjoyed it, what other books would you recomend?

tales of a rat hunting man and nathan bothe writen by plummer are good reads

Edited May 10, 2010 by gone bush