Plummer terriers

[EPTR 4]

Nice backtrack about the wee pup,but i read it first time.

 

RE the breed-like i said a simple "dont know" is sufficient, No lecture required

 

Does make you think though-how can claims be made about this, that or the other dog not being a plummer if no one knows when they came into existence!! LOL.

 

:search:

 

post up my back track Bill..as i cant see where ive done this. Like i said i had'nt intentionally sent a pup down a mink hole!

 

Well i could actuly go through my 21 diares and hundreds of regsitrations and put a more precise date on it but im not going to. Like i said before the anwswer would bring insite the likes of your post.

 

You could argue untill the kc recognise it in the next few years..untill then its a mongrol.

 

Type and Breed differnt things generaly a type comes before a breed.

 

So bill was politts rocky or rupert a breed of terrier ?

 

Was vandal part of a breed?

Edited July 20, 2010 by EPTR

[fireman 10,861]

Like i said i have nothing to prove to you or anyone.

Well shut the feck up then .

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Glen,you assume too much about me and terrierwork,lets re-cap,I was given my first 2 plummer's by brian himself around 1980 to test on all quarry,this I did and they were found wanting, too small with mousey heads as I've said before,they tried to rush in and get it all over within 15mins and would come out bitten to hell,I bred the size up with a black 100%nuttall dog and this produced some proper worker's of the right sort of size that you could dig to,over the next ten years they served me well and I bred about 8 litter's of pups off brians original bitches trying different working stud dogs to see what they produced,I even tried to get a stud off brian but all his stock was either to big or he was too busy with writing books,he sent me to see some fat woman by ruthin,N.wales to line a bitch but they were all nearly as big as her,absolute monster's at least16"plus,and as I kept other proper digging dogs with no plummer blood in them I let the plummer crosses come to their natural end.Testing your stock is part of breeding,how else do you improve it?why do you think the plummer type and size has changed so much down the year's?there's no use producing a large showpony that can't get to ground or is bad tempered,any improvement is a step in the right direction.I never owned a plummer again till 7yrs ago when I met Andy from rhyl through my mate who owned a Curtis price dog(too hard),I bought a dog as they were a nice litter and hard worked, my little fella has been a good hard working dog but is getting tired after a hard day's graft now and thats why I bought the bitch,if I can improve my stock,I will,I've never kept a non-worker or jibber,that goes for terrier and lurcher,or hawk for that matter.Why the intrigue as to my identity?surely we all have an avatar and password to avoid hassle from the anti's,lots of people on here know me and I have taken quite a few lads out off this site,they've seen my dogs work on different farms and estates and some have bought plummer's on the strength of it,most have seen my photo's of dogwork kept since the 70's,so there is no secret in my identity,as for being biased thats wrong as well,if your stock is as good as you say lets try it,trial me a small bitch to fully test,come and see me,look at my photo's taken of my dogs and you will see I am a fair bloke with a lot of experience,I won't hold my breath though,atb,wirralman

[The Fox hunter 0]

Nice backtrack about the wee pup,but i read it first time.

 

RE the breed-like i said a simple "dont know" is sufficient, No lecture required

 

Does make you think though-how can claims be made about this, that or the other dog not being a plummer if no one knows when they came into existence!! LOL.

 

:search:

 

post up my back track Bill..as i cant see where ive done this. Like i said i had'nt intentionally sent a pup down a mink hole!

 

Well i could actuly go through my 21 diares and hundreds of regsitrations and put a more precise date on it but im not going to. Like i said before the anwswer would bring insite the likes of your post.

 

You could argue untill the kc recognise it in the next few years..untill then its a mongrol.

 

Type and Breed differnt things generaly a type comes before a breed.

 

So bill was politts rocky or rupert a breed of terrier ?

 

Was vandal part of a breed?

 

You seem to have forgotten about Lucy if your talking of Rocky and Rupert....

[stormyboy 1,352]

Quote;15 july 10.58pm

 

As for the dogs back then being good old workers ....you did'nt see a breed called "Plummer terriers" work you saw a "type of working terrier" at the best ..now thanks to those that carried on for him they are a "breed" and breed truer and work as well..but your to steeped in ore of DBP and History to see that .(you obviously never new him well)

 

Quote;today

 

untill the kc recognise it in the next few years..untill then its a mongrol.

 

Make your mind up.

 

So bill was politts rocky or rupert a breed of terrier ?

 

Was vandal part of a breed?

 

Depends were you move the goalposts. Today? A type-same as yours!

 

Who knows where the goalposts will be tomorrow?

Edited July 20, 2010 by stormyboy

[stormyboy 1,352]

You seem to have forgotten about Lucy if your talking of Rocky and Rupert....

 

True F.H. A little bitch with huge heart-way in excess of her size! I liked her-had a daughter of hers,a mis mating with NR's Vamp/Pagan dog Toby. Now he was the real deal-Legendary earth dog.

Edited July 20, 2010 by stormyboy

[EPTR 4]

Quote;15 july 10.58pm

 

As for the dogs back then being good old workers ....you did'nt see a breed called "Plummer terriers" work you saw a "type of working terrier" at the best ..now thanks to those that carried on for him they are a "breed" and breed truer and work as well..but your to steeped in ore of DBP and History to see that .(you obviously never new him well)

 

Quote;today

 

untill the kc recognise it in the next few years..untill then its a mongrol.

 

Make your mind up.

 

So bill was politts rocky or rupert a breed of terrier ?

 

Was vandal part of a breed?

 

Depends were you move the goalposts. Today? A type-same as yours!

 

Who knows where the goalposts will be tomorrow?

 

Mis reprsenting a quote Bill lol thats a laf how low can you go to make up what you want to hear!. resorting to misquoting..I said "YOU COULD ARGUE" LOL

 

Which is obviuosly your intention to do..for you then say with blah blah blah

 

Depends on the "goalposts" the goalposts you mean "your goalposts" as ours were set in 1994 with standard in mind ..you know after you threw out your dolly .

 

AND YOU SAY I CANT ANSWER A QUESTION WITHOUT BLAH BLAH BLAH ..LOL

 

So let me get this right your saying we only have a type now?

 

Bill is this what yur saying ??or are you wanting to dodge this one (like the wee mink puppy question i asked that you dodged) ,, as it comes accros that the above named vandal rocky and rupert were considered by you as the same as the dogs of today ...just a type. I beg to differ of course.

[EPTR 4]

You seem to have forgotten about Lucy if your talking of Rocky and Rupert....

 

True F.H. A little bitch with huge heart-way in excess of her size! I liked her-had a daughter of hers,a mis mating with NR's Vamp/Pagan dog Toby. Now he was the real deal-Legendary earth dog.

 

 

And of course it was that good the line (TOBY) ain't here anymore ! brilliant legendary.

 

F1s and 2's again legendary stuff these mongrel's legendary..you'l be trying to convince all that these were plummers too. like i said your specialty f1 and 2s lol..

[EPTR 4]

Glen,you assume too much about me and terrierwork,lets re-cap,I was given my first 2 plummer's by brian himself around 1980 to test on all quarry,this I did and they were found wanting, too small with mousey heads as I've said before,they tried to rush in and get it all over within 15mins and would come out bitten to hell,I bred the size up with a black 100%nuttall dog and this produced some proper worker's of the right sort of size that you could dig to,over the next ten years they served me well and I bred about 8 litter's of pups off brians original bitches trying different working stud dogs to see what they produced,I even tried to get a stud off brian but all his stock was either to big or he was too busy with writing books,he sent me to see some fat woman by ruthin,N.wales to line a bitch but they were all nearly as big as her,absolute monster's at least16"plus,and as I kept other proper digging dogs with no plummer blood in them I let the plummer crosses come to their natural end.Testing your stock is part of breeding,how else do you improve it?why do you think the plummer type and size has changed so much down the year's?there's no use producing a large showpony that can't get to ground or is bad tempered,any improvement is a step in the right direction.I never owned a plummer again till 7yrs ago when I met Andy from rhyl through my mate who owned a Curtis price dog(too hard),I bought a dog as they were a nice litter and hard worked, my little fella has been a good hard working dog but is getting tired after a hard day's graft now and thats why I bought the bitch,if I can improve my stock,I will,I've never kept a non-worker or jibber,that goes for terrier and lurcher,or hawk for that matter.Why the intrigue as to my identity?surely we all have an avatar and password to avoid hassle from the anti's,lots of people on here know me and I have taken quite a few lads out off this site,they've seen my dogs work on different farms and estates and some have bought plummer's on the strength of it,most have seen my photo's of dogwork kept since the 70's,so there is no secret in my identity,as for being biased thats wrong as well,if your stock is as good as you say lets try it,trial me a small bitch to fully test,come and see me,look at my photo's taken of my dogs and you will see I am a fair bloke with a lot of experience,I won't hold my breath though,atb,wirralman

 

mr Unbaised I didnt ask for your life story again !! why the life story everytime ?...what are you trying to proove to everyone ? that you are a genuine medlar (see your words above) .

 

If your hell bent on seeing my stock work then go through the list of peolpe that keep pm ing you.

 

Now read this next bit again slowly ..

 

1.Im not wanting to prove my dogs to anyone and i never said they were as you say "good as you say they are " (BUT YOU SEEM HELL BENT ON TRYING TO GET ME TO )

 

2 The last person who challenged me ended up eating his own words and looking real daft as well as travling the best prt of a thousnd miles round trip to do so.Since which ive not accepted challenges a sthey are rather childish affairs and judgeds by baised fools

 

3 Im happy with the way the breed is going and wish not to follow your breed plan thanks for your forced uneducated advice but no thanks .

 

4 trail me a small bitch ..you must be joking..youl bang it over black dog

 

If your hell bent on seeing my stock work then go through the list of peolpe that keep pm ing you. ok dokey

 

Now if you have read this properly youl see i have mentioned the pm list at the begining and then end this way i thought you may absorb it better!

Edited July 21, 2010 by EPTR

[The Fox hunter 0]

Quote;15 july 10.58pm

 

As for the dogs back then being good old workers ....you did'nt see a breed called "Plummer terriers" work you saw a "type of working terrier" at the best ..now thanks to those that carried on for him they are a "breed" and breed truer and work as well..but your to steeped in ore of DBP and History to see that .(you obviously never new him well)

 

Quote;today

 

untill the kc recognise it in the next few years..untill then its a mongrol.

 

Make your mind up.

 

So bill was politts rocky or rupert a breed of terrier ?

 

Was vandal part of a breed?

 

Depends were you move the goalposts. Today? A type-same as yours!

 

Who knows where the goalposts will be tomorrow?

 

Mis reprsenting a quote Bill lol thats a laf how low can you go to make up what you want to hear!. resorting to misquoting..I said "YOU COULD ARGUE" LOL

 

Which is obviuosly your intention to do..for you then say with blah blah blah

 

Depends on the "goalposts" the goalposts you mean "your goalposts" as ours were set in 1994 with standard in mind ..you know after you threw out your dolly .

 

AND YOU SAY I CANT ANSWER A QUESTION WITHOUT BLAH BLAH BLAH ..LOL

 

So let me get this right your saying we only have a type now?

 

Bill is this what yur saying ??or are you wanting to dodge this one (like the wee mink puppy question i asked that you dodged) ,, as it comes accros that the above named vandal rocky and rupert were considered by you as the same as the dogs of today ...just a type. I beg to differ of course.

 

Ohhh Glen stop getting your Tena lady wet......

[stormyboy 1,352]

Precise early date ..impossible IMO...but dare i suggest when the defintion could easly been applied once or twice ..once with vipers stock and secondly with cerbys stock. Years apart..both had impacts and made big differences...but new studs are also doing the same now even tho there is no doubt whatsoever the terriers are a breed with a good viable genetic forumla.

 

Viper? half brother to hector-a mix of russel/fell-mongrel, according to you glen. None the worse for it and a fine dog imo. So vipers progeny were a breed and red/wite progeny of hectors wasn't?

 

If you say so glen-frankly it matters not a jot in the great scheme of things.

 

One exited post about your pup going to a mink. After others pointed out that its not the wisest thing to allow-backtrack,it was accidental. Most experienced folk would have posted that it was accidental in the first place.

 

F1,F2-there were few plummers about at that time-none according to you! Get over it. More snide vitriol at a dog you've never seen work. Toby was lost to ground before he could be used on the correct bitch.

 

If yours are a breed and earlier were a type,so be it. I have no problem with that. As ive said before I make no pretence about being a big time breeder,just tried to produce a few decent working plummer-types,if you must,terriers with what was available,no more ,no less. I gave it up due to work commitments. "a likely story says i" I think was your quote regarding this. Based on what? You know nothing about me. You also presume i dont work. Based on what?

FACT is I have a successful pest control company employing 4 people. (or "peolpes as you prefer to call them!) Believe it/dont believe it,it matters not.

 

If you have achieved your aims with these dogs,good luck to you.

 

And if the only way you feel able to illustrate what you've done is by sneering at others then carry on, The thread was originally about who WORKS their plummers-yet you,as a breeder pour scorn on the older stuff-the stock that yours come from. Hardly furthering the breed as a worker.

 

My mongrels served me well in the field and im happy with that. Those who had pups from me were happy with them-some have said so in this thread.

You refuse to believe others about the plummers prowess in the field without proof. How about providing some of your own?

 

This is about WORKING Plummers after all.

Edited July 21, 2010 by stormyboy

[rushty 1]

Got maself barred from the WPT site , which broke ma heart LOL. Any way , just a little post to say that IMO ( which probs means nowt to any one) , however I will still post any way. Plummer Terriers are , to the general publc nowt more than Jack Russells ( wish I had a kwid for every one who said "nice little dog , is it A Jack Russel., so that says a lot in my opinion. However we know better , as this breed is a tad more important than a small dog mated to a small dog that has its tail docked, which can be called Jack Russel. I had a part bred Plummer many years ago and it was out standing as a little ratter , infact it was a nice little dog . That was my first connection with the breed. My next was while at work ,a fellow worker showed me his stock and amongs them a smashing little bitch Plummer , though it was "AN OUT CROSS", whhich meant fecck all then as it does today. Any how many years laterI was lucky enough to get a puppy from that bitch. To cut a long story short . that said,the little bitch I managed to get has proved herself many times over and as a worker , IMO she is brill. Any how a guy I know called PUP, here is a message...... I hate falling out with people mate , If I see you somewhere mate I will be the first to buy you a pint , and ya wife . Any hows , keep the thread goin as it cant be nowt else but good for the breed

[EPTR 4]

Precise early date ..impossible IMO...but dare i suggest when the defintion could easly been applied once or twice ..once with vipers stock and secondly with cerbys stock. Years apart..both had impacts and made big differences...but new studs are also doing the same now even tho there is no doubt whatsoever the terriers are a breed with a good viable genetic forumla.

 

Viper? half brother to hector-a mix of russel/fell-mongrel, according to you glen. None the worse for it and a fine dog imo. So vipers progeny were a breed and red/wite progeny of hectors wasn't?

 

If you say so glen-frankly it matters not a jot in the great scheme of things.

 

One exited post about your pup going to a mink. After others pointed out that its not the wisest thing to allow-backtrack,it was accidental. Most experienced folk would have posted that it was accidental in the first place.

 

F1,F2-there were few plummers about at that time-none according to you! Get over it. More snide vitriol at a dog you've never seen work. Toby was lost to ground before he could be used on the correct bitch.

 

If yours are a breed and earlier were a type,so be it. I have no problem with that. As ive said before I make no pretence about being a big time breeder,just tried to produce a few decent working plummer-types,if you must,terriers with what was available,no more ,no less. I gave it up due to work commitments. "a likely story says i" I think was your quote regarding this. Based on what? You know nothing about me. You also presume i dont work. Based on what?

FACT is I have a successful pest control company employing 4 people. (or "peolpes as you prefer to call them!) Believe it/dont believe it,it matters not.

 

If you have achieved your aims with these dogs,good luck to you.

 

And if the only way you feel able to illustrate what you've done is by sneering at others then carry on, The thread was originally about who WORKS their plummers-yet you,as a breeder pour scorn on the older stuff-the stock that yours come from. Hardly furthering the breed as a worker.

 

My mongrels served me well in the field and im happy with that. Those who had pups from me were happy with them-some have said so in this thread.

You refuse to believe others about the plummers prowess in the field without proof. How about providing some of your own?

 

This is about WORKING Plummers after all.

 

viper stock stock being the word not viper himself...(like i said anyone takes the bait on that question is in for it)

 

Hectors one red and white bicth from 6 "penny " doubt the breed defintion applies here one out of 6 pups. IMO nor the kc's acttuly.

 

F1 2 s

 

Bill you say there were "few plummers about at the time "as Bill there were no plummers about at the time but you say they were as brian bred them so they must be ( so mine must be welsby terriers then ) .... i say they were types. Get over it as you like to say. Which you say you have no problem with ..good as its true they are breed and then they were types glad you agree.

 

Pup was an exercise in watching reactions on here and as said was not intentionally "put to a mink "doh!

 

Toby lost to ground ..before used ..typical working terrier attitude work first the legend dies briliant dog left nothing behind ..er now what..nowt in reserve not even a single insurance litter ???

 

Life story stroke rant not required.Not intersted in how you make a living now (though once a plaster i believe) though i have found since more about you than you think billy So we are in the same trade ishh.. as pest controll is part of my job seven days a week too and have been for 15 years ..SO WHAT!

 

Glad you have got this off your chest its seems like forever you have had to have a pop perhaps you will stop baiting me now when i disagree but after all forums are for this arn't they?

[fireman 10,861]

Toby lost to ground ..before used ..typical working terrier attitude work first the legend dies briliant dog left nothing behind ..er now what..nowt in reserve not even a single insurance litter ???

 

"Typical working terrier attitude",you really that stupid to not know it's called testing your stock and seeing if it's worth breeding from and imo it does make you look a proper twat saying such things on a working terrier topic glen.

 

You working terrier folk it seems you've all been breeding it wrong for hundreds of years now? .

[Guest busterdog]

41 Pages of pure bollocks, get over yourselves and stop rising to the bait.

They weren't any good aren't any good and won't be any good.

PLEASE PUT IT TO BED.