Plummer terriers

[hedz31 1,308]

soooooooooooooooo..............

 

 

 

 

 

do they work????

apparently they are amazing workers in every field but they have an allegic reaction to locator collars

[wirral countryman 2,110]

thats a cracking looking dog cleanspade,I'm hoping to breed a few like that myself off the new bitch,atb,wirralman

[The Fox hunter 0]

A Rocky Firebird Bitch From the 90's.Tried to upload some Pic's Of Deimos,Phobos,Barrad,Will keep trying.

[EPTR 4]

If it reaches 50 pages I,m going to turn it into a novel, it,s got everything......the evil agent working for the sinister organisation,{Glen and the KC],the heroes standing up for the ordinary people,[WCM Fireman] the love interest [Glen and Glen] the victim [ Thurso jack whos still waiting for an answer] it could be next years best seller.

 

and like most good reads. glen wont let the truth get in the way of a good story

 

"truth".. ..im still waiting for the little dog above to be photod next to a tape measure...that you claim is 12.5 inchs ... you galantly seem to be sticking piccys of other peeps dogs up or are have you suddenly bought a few in ( i think not) a little advise dont belive all the owners tell you about there dogs..spady :sick: ..but then youve only been in the breed a few months ..experince is telling here now ..those that know what there talking about haveing a decent converstion and the rest that jump in with jibes!.. ..LOL

 

you wont be getting a pic. she is twelve inch. a mans word is good enough where i come from. my oldest plummer is nearly four my next is three years, and my youngest is coming two. i owned a plummer in the early ninties and have bred a litter from wizard and line bred the resulting pups you will know the time i have been working terriers if you know your stuff pures crossbreds and oc. along with russells and coloured terriers. ive judged a few shows and international championships and reared entered and done well with KC. terriers. winning well at there shows with workin dogs. what year was wizard. or coed ban wizard. at gadgirth born.? ive enough experience to stick my ten peneth in. allthough you wont agree.

 

 

so whats your guess on her size

 

 

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs and you have failed to prove im wrong. As for being an imnternational judge you need a tape measure next time. know wonder the kc has a bad name about altering dogs confromation if judges can't even judge height!

 

Wizard lol have that dogs pedigree somewhere...maybe the wrong one tho as this WIZARD was a q x warlock and that pedigree is riddled with JRs and a dose of supposedly pitbull Making it a mongrol. Hardely a plummer terrier eh!

[EPTR 4]

A Rocky Firebird Bitch From the 90's.Tried to upload some Pic's Of Deimos,Phobos,Barrad,Will keep trying.

 

looks like sareil

[Tesco 28]

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs

 

Ive seen and handled Cleanspades terrier and its the size he says it is, you sound like a right jealous twat

Edited July 15, 2010 by Tesco

[gonetoearth 5,144]

foooook me lads the lord of the rings aint this long

[half n' half 8]

foooook me lads the lord of the rings aint this long

 

no but its a lot more interesting.

[EPTR 4]

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs

 

Ive seen and handled Cleanspades terrier and its the size he says it is, you sound like a right jealous twat

 

Jealous of what? totaly unbaised then Tesco

[Tesco 28]

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs

 

Ive seen and handled Cleanspades terrier and its the size he says it is, you sound like a right jealous twat

 

Jealous of what? totaly unbaised then Tesco

 

Totally unbiased just saying what I see, never owned a Plummer and never wanted to, incidentally if the terriers DBP bred are/were so bad and the improvements you've made to them are so vast why dont you call them Welsby terriers, are you afraid it may affect the sales if you were to "stand alone" as it were

[Waz 4,252]

THE PUREBERD CAN STAND ALONE AND HAVE PROVEN TO SINCE QUITE CONSDIERBALY WELL HERE THEY HAVE. Translation?

 

 

The adtition of outcross blood to the eptr regiter was a polictal move only. If, as you have claimed, there were enough "pures" to perpetuate and improve on,why allow "new blood" onto your register at all? What "political" motive? It seems hypocritical to pour scorn on them yet allow them to be registered IMO.

 

I believe Brian was referring to the f1/f2 re; doubling. Obviously line breeding is required to fix desired traits, but this can be achieved relatively quickly with dogs of similar type eg. terriers rather than completely different types,say collie x terrier.

Talk of percentages is all very well to a point, but certain individuals may display homozygosity regardless of the percentage of geniality.

 

 

Politics..we accepted the new blood as i believed at the time we had no choice if we were going to get the breed registered every move made by any club would be blocked by norma and the so called club ..PTCGB..However subsequently things have moved on and we are now in a different spot.

 

The Kc cant forever listen to individuals and unstructured minorities over the majority's.

 

Breeding wise linebreeding fixing traits (most common stratergy of breeders of livestock) ,,etc yes but . you have completly lost me with..

 

"Talk of percentages is all very well to a point, but certain individuals may display homozygousity regardless of the percentage of geniality...NEVER HEARD THIS PHRASE BEFORE "percenrtage of geniality "IN GENETCIS CAN YOU ENLIGHTEN ME.

 

Surely the amount, the % of "common kin blood " and the ( coe of inbreedimg) "F" value reduces heterozygosity and increase homozygosity..well it does in all my books so far!

 

 

Wiki gives us this..

 

"The probability that two alleles at a given locus are identical by descent. ie The extent to which an individual is more likely to be homozygous rather than heterozygous because of related parents "

 

"Heritability can be made larger by diversifying the genetic background, e.g., by using only very outbred individuals which increases the Variance"

 

 

Withot going into breeding plans..and arguieng what is and isnt the best breedimng plan .. I simply have illustrated to those that have these outcross blooded animals that none of the aims can be claimed to have been reached. IMO.

 

If they had they would have been documented and proven beyond doubt in the ten years they have been about. When the epts application goes to the KC I have no choice but to produce and sourrender my theories on the subject . Having seen many generations of pureberds and have documented their rise and the ailments they possess. Justifying brians last atempt "have his way" will be at the very least taxing...without the fruits of his ideas and not his labours, for all to be seen.

 

Good informative posts there EPTR, I think that stormyboy (correct me if im wrong SB) was trying to say that sometimes breedings dont pan out according to the percentages,i.e they may throw to an ancestor of the dog that you are trying to duplicate,or by some twist of fate seemingly inherit nothing from a signifigant ancestor and be a replica in all ways of some less signifigant one.A good example would be the greyhound "slaneyside Hare"

who was considered by many (due to type/variety of pups,their temperments etc.) to be the reincarnation of his great ,great grandfather "Monalee champion" ,who also occurred once a generation further back on his damline (9.4% altogether)>hardly inbred to him.

My own outcross bitch jazz (12.5% bull via nine) seemingly brought nothing from her bull ancestor appearance wise yet threw a"purebred " plummer daughter nearly twice her size.The mating i did twixt her and the 55lb pitbull revealed just how hetrozygous she was(carrying rednosed red,chocolate,tricolour,brindle,classic plummer markings ) .The mating between her plummer marked half sibling offspring produced all plummer marked pups (5).

I didnt get papers with her when i got her-hopefully i might bump into her breeder at a game fair over the summer and find out the rest of her breeding(shes R.I.P now),as a worker, ive seen harder ,more punishing dogs of various breeds(owned a few) but nothing ever sent the shivers up and down my spine like watching her work.Ill try and get a picture that i could post(any would be on my ex fiancees digital camera>so possibly not the easiest thing for m,e to aquire.)

A.t.b john

 

See where your coming from but its rare now in my kennels it does occur when i bring outside lines in(see below) .. but the good thing is that Plummers are traceable,well many are .

 

I did bring in a smart looking dog once over, as he was lineberd to a origanl line i have .But he produced terrible long noses and on researching I found and pin pionted the common ancestor that had the same affliction.

 

The trait was in both grandparents but were unrelated animals. This is probably the only time I can say that I was blown over and didnt predict what i expected...then i had'nt seen the dogs dam in the flesh ..if i had then i would have remembered this before the matings.

 

But my own bred dogs my own line are highly predictable, and i use the percentage values of certain terriers to predict my outcomes. Infact i have just bred a litter . The sire is heavily inbred at 34% and heavily bred to a bitch I bred ten years ago from my original stock from firebird and viper (at 50% the result of half brother and sister mating)

 

 

I expected to get black muzzles and some good round skulls with good sharp stops which hark back to one of my first black face round skulled dog luca (1996) at 12.5% and have manged to decrease the inbreeding to just 17%. I have to say they are only 2 weeks old friday but at present are exactly what i wanted, and expected.

 

The only down side of this litter is the dam who is only 25% my breeding and from a line of not so good conformation in fact she is the best of a bad bunch . But i liked her as pup and manged to get her as a three year old she has bred some good stuff for me and have tested her on different stud dogs so far she has not produced any cripples that her sires line is known for.

 

It's simply a case of knowing the dominance recessive factor in the line you breed, and increasing the % of the blood you want. However the more the genes are variable as in the f2' bull bred stuff as you rightly have pointed out the matings of such will produce many many different types.

 

This litter will have genetic variance even though they are typey to look at , so the bitch i keep will be linebred back to traits i want and to a dog that is my own breeding..this should then avoid the variance that the other bitch who are sold maywell produce if the owners dont listen and head straight to the common studs about or the latest show winner.

 

If variables occur regularly in plummer kennels then the inbreeding coe, (F) is to low. This breed had a big genepool before the second intro of bull blood and one can produce anything from a foxterrier looker to a bully dog i know because i breed both regularly...to keep the genepool wide.

 

Bet you cant wait to get them kc recognised...........can hear the till kerchinging from here.

[The Fox hunter 0]

Deimos.This Male by all account's had a screw lose.And was killed by Hounds in the early 90's.I believe he was highly rated as a Hunt terrier.Phobos L Barrad R,This photo was taken at The Plas Machynlleth around 1993.

[fireman 10,869]

So can fecking we Waz :sick: ,just glad there is a divide to be honest as this is all the proof i need to know my plummer's a good un.

and not on your redg Glen .

[The Fox hunter 0]

A Rocky Firebird Bitch From the 90's.Tried to upload some Pic's Of Deimos,Phobos,Barrad,Will keep trying.

 

looks like sareil

 

I have no idea who it is!Can't even remember how i came by the Pics,I know the names of the other's because the name's are on the back

[Waz 4,252]

So can fecking we Waz :sick: ,just glad there is a divide to be honest as this is all the proof i need to know my plummer's a good un.

and not on your redg Glen .

 

Wish you all the best with keepin em working.