Plummer terriers

[Guest dee mac]

look on the gallary, plenty legaly caught fox, plenty digging pics. over 3000 pt club members, not 1 pic of a plummer doing earth work, PLUMMER not cross bred plummer, rest my case lol

 

 

alli,I know the reputation plummer terrier's have among working dog men and I would agree that while these pups are being bred for sale to the highest bidder 95% of them will never see earthwork,if the drive to breed recognised worker's of the right size was pursued as strongly as the pursuit of KC registration then we would see a change in attitude from people like yourself,if you have never worked this type of dog then you will not be aware of its ability.Picture's can be put up but what does that prove?I've seen picture's put up on here of dogs smashed up and all and sundry come on and congratulate them,why?I've kept most types of terrier and have plenty of pics of dogs smashed up with dead foxes and I learnt my lessons the hard way on some mega-digs taking up to 2 days,the plummer's I have owned are a clever little dog and are not any different than a good leggy russell,if they can bolt a fox clean they will,your red dogs,fells,lakies etc are not very bright upstairs and try to kill everything they come into contact with,every earth becomes a dig and your stuck there half the day at the first hole you come to,thats not a very efficient use of your time or dog,then the dog is laid up for 2wks while it heals up.I can do all the earth's on a farm or estate while your still digging at the first,sometimes,especially at the beginning of the season I find some dogs go in too hard and get chewed up a bit but then for the rest of the season they settle down to what they do best,bolting,some can be called from the earth,a very handy thing when your somewhere you should'nt be, I'd love to see you call your dog out of an earth,I have seen a couple of very hard plummer's that were too hard for me to work regular and were every bit as tough as a fell or lakie but they tended to be a bit bigger than mine,these are my own experiences and have gave an honest account,not every plummer plays with rats,atb,wirralman

 

 

do you dig over your terrier wirrman? how do you rate his staying ability if so?

wirrall man id like too see you do the earths we hunt in a day with your so called educated dogs and get results as for caling them out i dont think you d have too as they d probably be standing at your heels refusing to enter you actually have the nerve to say in so many words that your bolters are better than proper earth dogs prat you keep telling yourself that and maybe one day you ll believe it i personally think your actually just a lazy person who is nt prepared too put the hard work into rearing and working a proper earth dog so you ve settled for a very poor second best killing rats the staple work of the common house cat.

 

 

ive aqllways prefared a bolter to a digging dog. i wouldnt thank you for a stay till dug to dog. if you cant see the benefits a good bolting terrier brings. then its your loss. i admire a good digging dog but wouldnt own something that is counter productive in the way i work my dogs. if you prefare to dig all day to a dog thats fine by me. why do you feel the need to slate dogs that can put 5 or six out to the gun in the same time scale. a GOOD bolting dog is worth two digging dogs in my book. and leaves your prefared terriers workstyle in the shade. and a very poor second best.

some people actually keep digging dogs so they can dig to them.A test for the dog and a test for the man

 

and some need them for shifting foxes. pest control. different dog for a different job thats all. no biggy

lads i ve took a step back and read your posts and as wirralman says some are just trying to promote the dog as best they can and are not trying too push it as a superior dog to the digging dog but heres my gripe and a big one at that why the push to have it registered and reconized as breed or type why the constant bickering about my plummer club is better than yours and last but not least the shocking prices that these dogs are fetching take a wee look at the history of some off the greatest working dogs from are past that are now the bread and butter of vets up and down the land with the lenghty health problems and are so far removed from there working past because of the 3 things that i ve mentioed that are rife with the majourity of plummer terrier breeders and owners thats my take on it

[Cleanspade 3,322]

look on the gallary, plenty legaly caught fox, plenty digging pics. over 3000 pt club members, not 1 pic of a plummer doing earth work, PLUMMER not cross bred plummer, rest my case lol

 

 

alli,I know the reputation plummer terrier's have among working dog men and I would agree that while these pups are being bred for sale to the highest bidder 95% of them will never see earthwork,if the drive to breed recognised worker's of the right size was pursued as strongly as the pursuit of KC registration then we would see a change in attitude from people like yourself,if you have never worked this type of dog then you will not be aware of its ability.Picture's can be put up but what does that prove?I've seen picture's put up on here of dogs smashed up and all and sundry come on and congratulate them,why?I've kept most types of terrier and have plenty of pics of dogs smashed up with dead foxes and I learnt my lessons the hard way on some mega-digs taking up to 2 days,the plummer's I have owned are a clever little dog and are not any different than a good leggy russell,if they can bolt a fox clean they will,your red dogs,fells,lakies etc are not very bright upstairs and try to kill everything they come into contact with,every earth becomes a dig and your stuck there half the day at the first hole you come to,thats not a very efficient use of your time or dog,then the dog is laid up for 2wks while it heals up.I can do all the earth's on a farm or estate while your still digging at the first,sometimes,especially at the beginning of the season I find some dogs go in too hard and get chewed up a bit but then for the rest of the season they settle down to what they do best,bolting,some can be called from the earth,a very handy thing when your somewhere you should'nt be, I'd love to see you call your dog out of an earth,I have seen a couple of very hard plummer's that were too hard for me to work regular and were every bit as tough as a fell or lakie but they tended to be a bit bigger than mine,these are my own experiences and have gave an honest account,not every plummer plays with rats,atb,wirralman

 

 

do you dig over your terrier wirrman? how do you rate his staying ability if so?

wirrall man id like too see you do the earths we hunt in a day with your so called educated dogs and get results as for caling them out i dont think you d have too as they d probably be standing at your heels refusing to enter you actually have the nerve to say in so many words that your bolters are better than proper earth dogs prat you keep telling yourself that and maybe one day you ll believe it i personally think your actually just a lazy person who is nt prepared too put the hard work into rearing and working a proper earth dog so you ve settled for a very poor second best killing rats the staple work of the common house cat.

 

 

ive aqllways prefared a bolter to a digging dog. i wouldnt thank you for a stay till dug to dog. if you cant see the benefits a good bolting terrier brings. then its your loss. i admire a good digging dog but wouldnt own something that is counter productive in the way i work my dogs. if you prefare to dig all day to a dog thats fine by me. why do you feel the need to slate dogs that can put 5 or six out to the gun in the same time scale. a GOOD bolting dog is worth two digging dogs in my book. and leaves your prefared terriers workstyle in the shade. and a very poor second best.

some people actually keep digging dogs so they can dig to them.A test for the dog and a test for the man

 

and some need them for shifting foxes. pest control. different dog for a different job thats all. no biggy

lads i ve took a step back and read your posts and as wirralman says some are just trying to promote the dog as best they can and are not trying too push it as a superior dog to the digging dog but heres my gripe and a big one at that why the push to have it registered and reconized as breed or type why the constant bickering about my plummer club is better than yours and last but not least the shocking prices that these dogs are fetching take a wee look at the history of some off the greatest working dogs from are past that are now the bread and butter of vets up and down the land with the lenghty health problems and are so far removed from there working past because of the 3 things that i ve mentioed that are rife with the majourity of plummer terrier breeders and owners thats my take on it

 

 

iys just a shame that all plummer owners are tarred with that brush. i got my oldest plummer becouse i was willing to give her some work in the fields. so not alls lost as since then ive come across a few with the same idea's. if i do breed my bitch i will pass on the favour to future owners

[Guest dee mac]

cleanspade you are one of very few and too be honest your fighting a loosing battle as the future of the plummer terrier will be controlled by ego s and money and too be honest it will probably keep the fly by night terrier experts interested spouting there own importance and lining there pockets for a long time leaving the good old digging terriers out of the spotlight just the way i like it.all the best and i hope you prove me wrong at some point in the future ;)but i wont hold my breath.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

deemac,your view of the plummer is an all to common one and it is a shame that the people who can do most to help it as a worker are too busy hand picking non-working homes and are more interested in KC registration or showing,I thank you for your honest comments and hope that in the future it can be pushed as a working terrier with some respect and not some rich persons toy.cleanspade you're right about the history of most working breeds being destroyed by showman,but most of these breeds already had a long working history beforehand and had follower's that kept a working strain going,the plummer does not have that privilege,the cart is being put before the horse,atb,wirralman

[johnny boy68 11,726]

johnny boy 68,as I said,its what suits me and not you,there are no rock piles anywhere I go these days,I've worked rockpiles and cairns when in scotland in my younger days and I agree that a good hard dog is needed but not round here,MY dogs suit ME and nobody else,try walking down the road or let your kids take them down the park smashed up and scarred because you would have your dogs took off you in 5 mins,they're just not for me anymore. J DARCY,if you've never had a dog smashed up for a week or two then you've never had a hard bitten dog that only knows one way to go.with little brains and no common sense,if you don't dig quick enough or its too deep then its a dead fox,I 've had dogs eat the lower mandible,teeth and all if thats hard enough for you,there's a difference between a dog that works a fox and one that tries to rush in,I don't call that jacking,jacker's won't even look at an earth never mind enter it,I thought this thread was for those that own and work plummers not for people to come on and slate us owner's that are trying to forward it as a working dog thats known for more than just rats,healthy debate is fine but one line unsubstantiated rubbish only shows the depth of your knowledge when it comes to plummer terrier's,as a moderator you should promote healthy debate backed up with knowledge of the breed and its working abilities not trying to get a rise out of people that keep and work them,atb,wirralman

Wirral I think you took me the wrong way,I wasn't having a dig(excuse the pun)at dogs that bolt their foxes,quite the opposite fella.I'm of the same oponion as you,a few places I work are rock piles,disused quarry's etc so the use of (in Darcy's words)a "jacker" is a must if you want that fox out.My idea of a jacker was one that wouldn't enter,wanted nothing to do with its quarry etc......atb John

Edited July 7, 2010 by johnny boy68

[fireman 10,869]

Dee Mac your post about the plummer clubs and what there aims are and the gap with those clubs and those working owners like a few on here is worlds apart mate,folks like eptr who claim to have the breed at heart are the main pushers for kc recognision.Why?,cash and the want to win cruft's and the ego that goes with it ,his excuse is brian plummer wanted it himself but read the sort of thing he really thinks of plummer himself and your see he's full of lies,he thought the man a fool and a liar and has said as much on this thread.The other clubs are the same and thats why we that do try to graft our plummers are often thought of as either trouble makers or dreamers by them and the rest of the terrier world but like i said,the plummer is first a sporting terrier but there's a few that can still graft to ground and the owners of these such terriers(myself inclueded)would hate to see this very pratical breed just turn into a kc pile of shit just like the kc russell,lakie,border,beddie and we JUST SAY IT HOW WE SEE IT thats all.

[stainlee 27]

I,m not a digging man ,but the way I see it is ,the fact that people on this site work them and are keen enough to argue and defend the breed against its detractors,bodes well for the future,if these people continue to work and breed workers, then a standard true breeding Plummer will surely evolve naturally. The problems seem to come with the rush for KC recognition and unifomity of size ,colour etc. Why the rush?

[wirral countryman 2,110]

<BR>I,m not a digging man ,but the way I see it is ,the fact that people on this site work them and are keen enough to argue and defend the breed against its detractors,bodes well for the future,if these people continue to work and breed workers, then a standard true breeding Plummer will surely evolve naturally. The problems seem to come with the rush for KC recognition and unifomity of size ,colour etc. Why the rush?<BR>

<BR><BR><BR>GOOD POST STAINLEE,I think thats the chosen path for a few owner's,we just need to encourage more decent lads to try the breed,getting hold of  any plummer is a task in itself but getting one from a working line is a lot harder,wirralman

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Johnnyboy 68,I must apoligise for taking your post the wrong way mate,you get that used to taking flak on here I should be wearing a crash-hat of some sort,I think paranoia comes free with every plummer,LOL,atb,wirralman

[stormyboy 1,352]

Some good points raised there lads. Back on the working track,Does anyone or has anyone worked the "new blood" (bull oc.) to ground? They seem to be decent hunters from what i've seen on some forums and some very tidy lookers. (I know looks dont mean a lot,just an observation)I'm told they're a little more placid than the old blood temperament wise.

THIS QUESTION IS NOT ASKED TO STIR ANY CRAP ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED OR NOT-THATS HAS BEEN DONE TO DEATH-ITS DONE,LIVE WITH IT!

I havent seen them work so cant comment. It would be nice to hear from those that do work them.

[brianL84 11]

iv herd of a new blood that has done badger and its not a lier who told me so they can do it i think they have got a bad rep . personaly i would have a pat but as i said i have seen them do the job so i guess its all down to what you like

[EPTR 4]

Dee Mac your post about the plummer clubs and what there aims are and the gap with those clubs and those working owners like a few on here is worlds apart mate,folks like eptr who claim to have the breed at heart are the main pushers for kc recognision.Why?,cash and the want to win cruft's and the ego that goes with it ,his excuse is brian plummer wanted it himself but read the sort of thing he really thinks of plummer himself and your see he's full of lies,he thought the man a fool and a liar and has said as much on this thread.The other clubs are the same and thats why we that do try to graft our plummers are often thought of as either trouble makers or dreamers by them and the rest of the terrier world but like i said,the plummer is first a sporting terrier but there's a few that can still graft to ground and the owners of these such terriers(myself inclueded)would hate to see this very pratical breed just turn into a kc pile of shit just like the kc russell,lakie,border,beddie and we JUST SAY IT HOW WE SEE IT thats all.

 

Seeing as your having a pop at clubs again and me imparticlular steve then I will have me say..

 

The reason we and i'm pushing for recognition is nothig to do with wanting to be at crufts or money ..i've not been in a ring showing a dog in ten years,,, and aim never to .infact phil k showed all my dogs this last weekend at our breed club show.. where we did very well

 

 

Money wise unlike you I have a good job and don't relay on breeding terriers for money infact i have raised only 8 pups this year and kept 2 .(2 litters)

 

Hardly a money making scam eh!

 

Im sure Brian wanted recognition for the breed and again hardley an excuse to carry on trying to get them recognised..

 

My terriers maywell be shown at crufts when sold on , but i doubt my own working dogs will be acceptable due to the scars they get through daily work..

 

I will certainly not be keeping anything here that will be kept purely for show never have done never will do ..so your wrong AGIAN!

 

You keep saying im a liar but have yet to prove this at all, so go on steve tell why im a lair?

 

Brian was a lair theres no doubt about that and IMO a fool ..IMO.

 

So all members and breeders of both the clubs are wrong and you and your merry band of halfwits eg wirrely bird have the key to the breeds success just keep working them ARD ..thank god for the clubs then....as you will losse them before they can breed out! ..then come knocking on the clubs doors for help like wirelly man with his " multi homed.. boyu" bred dog whos pedigree is littered with none workers on the dams side and i mean total none workers ..for one vandals daughter jenny ...never mind the cripple produceing toothless mouthed bitch thistle lot.

 

JUST SAYING HOW WE SEE IT STEVE

[stormyboy 1,352]

johnny boy 68,as I said,its what suits me and not you,there are no rock piles anywhere I go these days,I've worked rockpiles and cairns when in scotland in my younger days and I agree that a good hard dog is needed but not round here,MY dogs suit ME and nobody else,try walking down the road or let your kids take them down the park smashed up and scarred because you would have your dogs took off you in 5 mins,they're just not for me anymore. J DARCY,if you've never had a dog smashed up for a week or two then you've never had a hard bitten dog that only knows one way to go.with little brains and no common sense,if you don't dig quick enough or its too deep then its a dead fox,I 've had dogs eat the lower mandible,teeth and all if thats hard enough for you,there's a difference between a dog that works a fox and one that tries to rush in,I don't call that jacking,jacker's won't even look at an earth never mind enter it,I thought this thread was for those that own and work plummers not for people to come on and slate us owner's that are trying to forward it as a working dog thats known for more than just rats,healthy debate is fine but one line unsubstantiated rubbish only shows the depth of your knowledge when it comes to plummer terrier's,as a moderator you should promote healthy debate backed up with knowledge of the breed and its working abilities not trying to get a rise out of people that keep and work them,atb,wirralman

Wirral I think you took me the wrong way,I wasn't having a dig(excuse the pun)at dogs that bolt their foxes,quite the opposite fella.I'm of the same oponion as you,a few places I work are rock piles,disused quarry's etc so the use of (in Darcy's words)a "jacker" is a must if you want that fox out.My idea of a jacker was one that wouldn't enter,wanted nothing to do with its quarry etc......atb John

 

Very true John. Horses for courses. Rupert,one of the best,spent 2 days in a rock pile in Ireland a few years back im told. He was as good as an earth dog gets according to many who saw him work.

[fireman 10,869]

You did very well at YOUR OWN SHOW with YOUR OWN DOGS but because you don't show dog someone else did(eptr member?)with yours and your proud of the fact you did well .My terriers may well be shown at crufts then sold on,says it all about you glen it really does and others are the halfwits eh? .

[Cleanspade 3,322]

cleanspade you are one of very few and too be honest your fighting a loosing battle as the future of the plummer terrier will be controlled by ego s and money and too be honest it will probably keep the fly by night terrier experts interested spouting there own importance and lining there pockets for a long time leaving the good old digging terriers out of the spotlight just the way i like it.all the best and i hope you prove me wrong at some point in the future ;)but i wont hold my breath.

 

dee mac. i am content to keep a type. as long as it does what i need i'll be happy. i'm to long in the tooth to be bothered with all the nonsense that goes with the KC. and will just stick with what i like. as long as there are a few folk working this type there will be working type plummers. and when the KC recognise the rest. the divide will become a little clearer working type/KC type all the best