Plummer terriers

[poacher3161 1,766]

I have just been sorting through my book collection and found the first copy of plummers book the jack russel terrier its training and entering theirs a pic on the front of a chap called Malcolm Haddock terrier man for the meynall fox hunt holding a bitch called climber holder of M.F.H working certificate does this bitches blood feature in todays plummers.atb dell

[EPTR 4]

Deimos.This Male by all account's had a screw lose.And was killed by Hounds in the early 90's.I believe he was highly rated as a Hunt terrier.Phobos L Barrad R,This photo was taken at The Plas Machynlleth around 1993.

 

The top picy was deioms when i took the picture at my house,infact ive still got that half of the black coupling..LOL . He was bit of a fighter and did'nt do much work wise, he was passed around and ended up im told by c.prise sireing parsons for muriel jones mate.

 

The other two im 99.9% sure are phobos left and trembling, his brother right trembling eneded up with a sore throat as can be seen in the pic, due to earh work. He was pet homed due to being to hard.

 

Barad was marked differntly and had a bad coat.

[EPTR 4]

I have just been sorting through my book collection and found the first copy of plummers book the jack russel terrier its training and entering theirs a pic on the front of a chap called Malcolm Haddock terrier man for the meynall fox hunt holding a bitch called climber holder of M.F.H working certificate does this bitches blood feature in todays plummers.atb dell

 

 

Not that i can see but coin a brother is being great grandsire to mat Pyes San who figurs in many lines including mine ..infcat my stud is 0.8% coin ..not alot of influence there now lol..

[EPTR 4]

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs

 

Ive seen and handled Cleanspades terrier and its the size he says it is, you sound like a right jealous twat

 

Jealous of what? totaly unbaised then Tesco

 

Totally unbiased just saying what I see, never owned a Plummer and never wanted to, incidentally if the terriers DBP bred are/were so bad and the improvements you've made to them are so vast why dont you call them Welsby terriers, are you afraid it may affect the sales if you were to "stand alone" as it were

 

Yea unbiased right and Tesco ..catch up " the welsby terrier" been said ..what 20 times in this thread so far lol.

 

If someone deduses that DBP's terriers were so bad from this thread then they are making an assumption based on facts.

 

Who mentioned making vast improvements....? another assumption.

[EPTR 4]

So can fecking we Waz :sick: ,just glad there is a divide to be honest as this is all the proof i need to know my plummer's a good un.

and not on your redg Glen .

 

love this classic picy pure class...my hero!

[The Fox hunter 0]

Christ,you lot love arguing over The Plummer terrier.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

I have just been sorting through my book collection and found the first copy of plummers book the jack russel terrier its training and entering theirs a pic on the front of a chap called Malcolm Haddock terrier man for the meynall fox hunt holding a bitch called climber holder of M.F.H working certificate does this bitches blood feature in todays plummers.atb dell

hello poacher3161 its nice to see you getting interested in the history of plummer's,the dogs brian produced back in the day were at least given out to huntsmen to work and promote the breed as a working earth dog,good looking dogs that were easy on the eye,there were certainly more working plummer's about in the right hands,all this rubbish about the evil one (glen) advancing the breed with his exact genetics LOL's has only served to weaken the breed among working dog men,I might add that it is only him that seems to think he has made the breed superior to the stuff Brian produced,imho the old plummer's were a good hard working dog and it doesn't matter a fig what he thinks he's done to advance the breed you can't take another mans lifetime of work and idea's,then try to pass them off as your own,the breed was named after Brian,as were the accolades he recieved from decent dogmen at the time,to ridicule a dead man in the manner he does at times stinks of jealousy and lacks basic manner's,respect costs nothing,in everyones eye's these little dogs will always be called PLUMMER'S,atb,wirralman

Edited July 15, 2010 by wirral countryman

[poacher3161 1,766]

I have just been sorting through my book collection and found the first copy of plummers book the jack russel terrier its training and entering theirs a pic on the front of a chap called Malcolm Haddock terrier man for the meynall fox hunt holding a bitch called climber holder of M.F.H working certificate does this bitches blood feature in todays plummers.atb dell

hello poacher3161 its nice to see you getting interested in the history of plummer's,the dogs brian produced back in the day were at least given out to huntsmen to work and promote the breed as a working earth dog,good looking dogs that were easy on the eye,there were certainly more working plummer's about in the right hands,all this rubbish about the evil one (glen) advancing the breed with his exact genetics LOL's has only served to weaken the breed among working dog men,I might add that it is only him that seems to think he has made the breed superior to the stuff Brian produced,imho the old plummer's were a good hard working dog and it doesn't matter a fig what he thinks he's done to advance the breed you can't take another mans lifetime of work and idea's,then try to pass them off as your own,the breed was named after Brian,as were the accolades he recieved from decent dogmen at the time,to ridicule a dead man in the manner he does at times stinks of jealousy and lacks basic manner's,respect costs nothing,in everyones eye's these little dogs will always be called PLUMMER'S,atb,wirralman

I admit to never realy been involved with terriers but plummer lived in the same town and his terriers then were used and worked by very good digging men and a lot of his early type dogs their reputation was earned in the earth work they excelled at.atb dell

[Cleanspade 3,322]

If it reaches 50 pages I,m going to turn it into a novel, it,s got everything......the evil agent working for the sinister organisation,{Glen and the KC],the heroes standing up for the ordinary people,[WCM Fireman] the love interest [Glen and Glen] the victim [ Thurso jack whos still waiting for an answer] it could be next years best seller.

 

and like most good reads. glen wont let the truth get in the way of a good story

 

"truth".. ..im still waiting for the little dog above to be photod next to a tape measure...that you claim is 12.5 inchs ... you galantly seem to be sticking piccys of other peeps dogs up or are have you suddenly bought a few in ( i think not) a little advise dont belive all the owners tell you about there dogs..spady :sick: ..but then youve only been in the breed a few months ..experince is telling here now ..those that know what there talking about haveing a decent converstion and the rest that jump in with jibes!.. ..LOL

 

you wont be getting a pic. she is twelve inch. a mans word is good enough where i come from. my oldest plummer is nearly four my next is three years, and my youngest is coming two. i owned a plummer in the early ninties and have bred a litter from wizard and line bred the resulting pups you will know the time i have been working terriers if you know your stuff pures crossbreds and oc. along with russells and coloured terriers. ive judged a few shows and international championships and reared entered and done well with KC. terriers. winning well at there shows with workin dogs. what year was wizard. or coed ban wizard. at gadgirth born.? ive enough experience to stick my ten peneth in. allthough you wont agree.

 

 

so whats your guess on her size

 

 

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs and you have failed to prove im wrong. As for being an imnternational judge you need a tape measure next time. know wonder the kc has a bad name about altering dogs confromation if judges can't even judge height!

 

Wizard lol have that dogs pedigree somewhere...maybe the wrong one tho as this WIZARD was a q x warlock and that pedigree is riddled with JRs and a dose of supposedly pitbull Making it a mongrol. Hardely a plummer terrier eh!

 

Q / warlock. your right. he was owned by helen jones then and was bred by plummer so he was a plummer terrier. as for the pitbull i dont know. but the ones we bred where only ten to eleven inches. and where to hard for there size, the international was meant to read national the bitch is twelve inch

 

like i said i have a pure. just checked the ped. it has two lines to errol forsyths pip. (jack russell... ainsley newtons tri colour...not sure about that one ?. and hector. was he not a patt cross. pta. mongrel. :kiss:

[EPTR 4]

If it reaches 50 pages I,m going to turn it into a novel, it,s got everything......the evil agent working for the sinister organisation,{Glen and the KC],the heroes standing up for the ordinary people,[WCM Fireman] the love interest [Glen and Glen] the victim [ Thurso jack whos still waiting for an answer] it could be next years best seller.

 

and like most good reads. glen wont let the truth get in the way of a good story

 

"truth".. ..im still waiting for the little dog above to be photod next to a tape measure...that you claim is 12.5 inchs ... you galantly seem to be sticking piccys of other peeps dogs up or are have you suddenly bought a few in ( i think not) a little advise dont belive all the owners tell you about there dogs..spady :sick: ..but then youve only been in the breed a few months ..experince is telling here now ..those that know what there talking about haveing a decent converstion and the rest that jump in with jibes!.. ..LOL

 

you wont be getting a pic. she is twelve inch. a mans word is good enough where i come from. my oldest plummer is nearly four my next is three years, and my youngest is coming two. i owned a plummer in the early ninties and have bred a litter from wizard and line bred the resulting pups you will know the time i have been working terriers if you know your stuff pures crossbreds and oc. along with russells and coloured terriers. ive judged a few shows and international championships and reared entered and done well with KC. terriers. winning well at there shows with workin dogs. what year was wizard. or coed ban wizard. at gadgirth born.? ive enough experience to stick my ten peneth in. allthough you wont agree.

 

 

so whats your guess on her size

 

 

Like i said your wrong that dog aint 12 inchs and you have failed to prove im wrong. As for being an imnternational judge you need a tape measure next time. know wonder the kc has a bad name about altering dogs confromation if judges can't even judge height!

 

Wizard lol have that dogs pedigree somewhere...maybe the wrong one tho as this WIZARD was a q x warlock and that pedigree is riddled with JRs and a dose of supposedly pitbull Making it a mongrol. Hardely a plummer terrier eh!

 

Q / warlock. your right. he was owned by helen jones then and was bred by plummer so he was a plummer terrier. as for the pitbull i dont know. but the ones we bred where only ten to eleven inches. and where to hard for there size, the international was meant to read national the bitch is twelve inch

 

like i said i have a pure. just checked the ped. it has two lines to errol forsyths pip. (jack russell... ainsley newtons tri colour...not sure about that one ?. and hector. was he not a patt cross. pta. mongrel. :kiss:

 

We call the terriers "Plummer" now as we consider them a "breed" Brian tho a like able rogue had a wish to call his working terriers "plummer" one day (see the vids) back then tho as you have just pionted out they were not a breed .And as you "dont know "..and i will enlighten you..read on

 

Helens Wizard being at least an f2 hardley a breed as it was sired by warlock who was half JR and apparently out of a bull cross.

 

His dam "Q" went to "m jones" was a gradaughter of lewis's micky so wizard was "not all that " and looking at "willard" his son id say was more variable than a tube of smarties!

 

 

A purebred (must be either very old or somebreeder needs to play catch up)with two lines to a JR ( PIP) and Hector f2 fell terrier plus the "newton mongrol" ..as if it ain't the definition must be wrong for mongrol as this dog has fells and russells in the second gene. These dogs were immediate pedigrees in the 1980s not now!

[stormyboy 1,352]

Hector was a b+w collar marked marked f2 owned by a good friend and terrierman. Saw regular work with the south Hereford hunt. Another underused stud due to being b+w. He would throw roughly 50% b+w pups (random-red+white pups would breed red+white mated to red+white). Black+white not sale-able.

If your dog has 2 lines to pip its no bad thing. a lot of the later stuff plummer bred via pip were good earth dogs. Shame their percentages made them inferior!!

How were the ones bred that threw 10-11" dogs? Brians huddlesford pack were all that size,a lot of them too game for their size as you said! Original Plummer terriers.

[EPTR 4]

I have just been sorting through my book collection and found the first copy of plummers book the jack russel terrier its training and entering theirs a pic on the front of a chap called Malcolm Haddock terrier man for the meynall fox hunt holding a bitch called climber holder of M.F.H working certificate does this bitches blood feature in todays plummers.atb dell

hello poacher3161 its nice to see you getting interested in the history of plummer's,the dogs brian produced back in the day were at least given out to huntsmen to work and promote the breed as a working earth dog,good looking dogs that were easy on the eye,there were certainly more working plummer's about in the right hands,all this rubbish about the evil one (glen) advancing the breed with his exact genetics LOL's has only served to weaken the breed among working dog men,I might add that it is only him that seems to think he has made the breed superior to the stuff Brian produced,imho the old plummer's were a good hard working dog and it doesn't matter a fig what he thinks he's done to advance the breed you can't take another mans lifetime of work and idea's,then try to pass them off as your own,the breed was named after Brian,as were the accolades he recieved from decent dogmen at the time,to ridicule a dead man in the manner he does at times stinks of jealousy and lacks basic manner's,respect costs nothing,in everyones eye's these little dogs will always be called PLUMMER'SS,atb,wirralman

TALK ABOUT ROSE TINITED GLASSES..SEEMS YOU'VE BIN TO SPECKSAVERS AND ARE WEARING TWO SETS! LOL..TAKE EM OFF.WIRRELY

 

Brians stuff didnt all work as he'd like all to think "back in the day "( i love this looking back rubbish WAKE UP )..the list of none workers is longer than the list of workers ..but that depended alot on who at the time Brian suddenly befriended ..ASK THE OWNER OF HAMISH LIKE I DID..if you were flavour of the month you were cossetted if not dumped asap..ive seen this happen so many times. As for working certs then take them with a pinch of salt...I have a DBP signed pedigree for a dog ..well bitch actually that had a wc from ireland ..yet the dog never went over there! and the person who allegedly gave the wc was everyday man not a huntsman...who i met !..

 

You do like to spew the propaganda of the evil one advancing the breed by exact genetics. So your lack of genetic knowledge is my fault!Educate yourself !..

 

As for the dogs back then being good old workers ....you did'nt see a breed called "Plummer terriers" work you saw a "type of working terrier" at the best ..now thanks to those that carried on for him they are a "breed" and breed truer and work as well..but your to steeped in ore of DBP and History to see that .(you obviously never new him well)

 

As for ridiculing a dead man i ridiculed him when he was a live to his face ..dead or alive truth is truth..

 

NOW STICK THEM GLASSES BACK ON AND LETS HEAR THE NEXT LOT OF ROMANTIC DRIBBLE

[stormyboy 1,352]

Glenn-If plummer was such a twat and the PLUMMER terrier such a mongrel,and you are such a genius,why dont you start from scratch and create your own breed of terrier instead of riding on Plummers coat tails while slagging him off incessantly,as well as anyone else that has a different OPINION from you.

The thread improved for a while-even your posts were reasonable,without the childish name calling. You even used IMO instead of FACT.

Sliding back now though.

 

So how about it -lets see you create something YOURSELF.

Your dogs are no better than any other plummer-fact

Edited July 16, 2010 by stormyboy

[EPTR 4]

Glenn-If plummer was such a twat and the PLUMMER terrier such a mongrel,and you are such a genius,why dont you start from scratch and create your own breed of terrier instead of riding on Plummers coat tails while slagging him off incessantly,as well as anyone else that has a different OPINION from you.

The thread improved for a while-even your posts were reasonable,without the childish name calling. You even used IMO instead of FACT.

Sliding back now though.

 

So how about it -lets see you create something YOURSELF.

Your dogs are no better than any other plummer-fact

 

Who said plummer was a tXXT you not me LOL..and I'm a genius well thanks Bill i wouldn't go so far as that but if you insist then i will except .

 

When did i say my dogs were any better than anyones ?..you seem to be making stories up to suit your train of thought..

 

Back then they were mongrel's prove me wrong with a pedigree, or should we start popping them up and debating them. and then put up th edefinition of mongrol up!

 

I have plenty to go at over 1000 now.Including some of yours!

 

 

Bill the facts speak for themselves all im doing is highlighting them i will let others make there own minds up.( as good journalist should do ..but i know im not one lol)

 

 

If the cakes to hard to swallow then don't bite in!

 

Brian was fun but i and cp soon found that he was out for one man only and to hell with anyone who gets in the way! ..so be it but immortality doesn't come so easy.

If he had showed some respect at all to those around him who prevented the type from extinction (especially CP) and had helped him out they may well have thought more of him. Fact is he did'nt like the idea of others knowing a little more than he thought was good enough and having a different opionion ....like thee and me Difference is im a realist and don't look back or forward with rose tinted glasses.

 

 

I can handle the debate (you seem to take everything to heart!) as all i've done is piont out the facts... Like the next one.

 

Hector the so called "reflex grafter " was offered around to anyone who wanted him including myslef..did he gain a WC with the hereford ?.. no one saw it!..PROVE HE DID so was he that good ?..i doubt it he never made a name for himself ended up in obscurity sired 6 terriers most in caithness all of which did nowt!.. another rose tinted view of owd plummers!

I SAW ONLY ONE WORKING CERTIFICATE AND THAT WAS HAMISH'S...that does'nt mean to say plums old stuff didnt have any wc's but if i had dogs with wc's (as many a she alleged he had) id have kept them for the history books. MUCH BETTER THAN ROSSETTES EH!.but im sceptical bugger at the best of times and prefer proof everytime, or did i just learn my lesson not to trust him from ..him?

 

But i do agree he Heccy was under used but then how many more fell crosses did we need?especially by the famous rocky ..perhaps if it had been a fell cross kotian then he may well have been snapped up...why? i really don't now as pip had is down side to. But rocky was heavily used, at the time, and it would have been a different line..but a mongrol at best all the same. to f2s mated togther dont make a breed...IMO of course Bill.IMO..

 

 

I have no wish to start a breed i've sunk too much time into helping the evolution of a breed develop from as Brian called them "hotch botch " bunch.

 

Shame you missed out it has been great fun,(but you need dedication) and I have great pleasure seeing them as they are now .

 

My opinion my differ from yours ..but i will not be slating you with such vulgarities as you seem to like to use. I look forward to the next wonderful blurp of anti welsby propanganda...ps i do quite like the sound of welsby terrier though..but other suggestiosn have been made by members that are actuly beter!

[The Fox hunter 0]

Glenn-If plummer was such a twat and the PLUMMER terrier such a mongrel,and you are such a genius,why dont you start from scratch and create your own breed of terrier instead of riding on Plummers coat tails while slagging him off incessantly,as well as anyone else that has a different OPINION from you.

The thread improved for a while-even your posts were reasonable,without the childish name calling. You even used IMO instead of FACT.

Sliding back now though.

 

So how about it -lets see you create something YOURSELF.

Your dogs are no better than any other plummer-fact

 

Who said plummer was a tXXT you not me LOL..and I'm a genius well thanks Bill i wouldn't go so far as that but if you insist then i will except .

 

When did i say my dogs were any better than anyones ?..you seem to be making stories up to suit your train of thought..

 

Back then they were mongrel's prove me wrong with a pedigree, or should we start popping them up and debating them. and then put up th edefinition of mongrol up!

 

I have plenty to go at over 1000 now.Including some of yours!

 

 

Bill the facts speak for themselves all im doing is highlighting them i will let others make there own minds up.( as good journalist should do ..but i know im not one lol)

 

 

If the cakes to hard to swallow then don't bite in!

 

Brian was fun but i and cp soon found that he was out for one man only and to hell with anyone who gets in the way! ..so be it but immortality doesn't come so easy.

If he had showed some respect at all to those around him who prevented the type from extinction (especially CP) and had helped him out they may well have thought more of him. Fact is he did'nt like the idea of others knowing a little more than he thought was good enough and having a different opionion ....like thee and me Difference is im a realist and don't look back or forward with rose tinted glasses.

 

 

I can handle the debate (you seem to take everything to heart!) as all i've done is piont out the facts... Like the next one.

 

Hector the so called "reflex grafter " was offered around to anyone who wanted him including myslef..did he gain a WC with the hereford ?.. no one saw it!..PROVE HE DID so was he that good ?..i doubt it he never made a name for himself ended up in obscurity sired 6 terriers most in caithness all of which did nowt!.. another rose tinted view of owd plummers!

I SAW ONLY ONE WORKING CERTIFICATE AND THAT WAS HAMISH'S...that does'nt mean to say plums old stuff didnt have any wc's but if i had dogs with wc's (as many a she alleged he had) id have kept them for the history books. MUCH BETTER THAN ROSSETTES EH!.but im sceptical bugger at the best of times and prefer proof everytime, or did i just learn my lesson not to trust him from ..him?

 

But i do agree he Heccy was under used but then how many more fell crosses did we need?especially by the famous rocky ..perhaps if it had been a fell cross kotian then he may well have been snapped up...why? i really don't now as pip had is down side to. But rocky was heavily used, at the time, and it would have been a different line..but a mongrol at best all the same. to f2s mated togther dont make a breed...IMO of course Bill.IMO..

 

 

I have no wish to start a breed i've sunk too much time into helping the evolution of a breed develop from as Brian called them "hotch botch " bunch.

 

Shame you missed out it has been great fun,(but you need dedication) and I have great pleasure seeing them as they are now .

 

My opinion my differ from yours ..but i will not be slating you with such vulgarities as you seem to like to use. I look forward to the next wonderful blurp of anti welsby propanganda...ps i do quite like the sound of welsby terrier though..but other suggestiosn have been made by members that are actuly beter!

 

Didn't Vamps have a W/C With the Grove and Rufford?And was it Vampire at the start of one of the DBP'S documentaries?